Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Encouraging children to practice

I really quite disagree with assigning rigid practice requirements for students. Especially when it is based on received information from the practice methods of music examiners, well-known concert pianists and the like.

What right do we have to assume each student is, at heart, some imagined model student-pianist whose mind and motivations do not differ from anyone else's, or from a teacher's ideal - little Stepford-like people who keep lessons happy and satisfactory for their teachers.

Children, like any person, have their own, and often, quite undiscovered, reasons for playing the piano. Sometimes practicing is not what they want to do, and they are quite happy at learning a little in the lessons, but not adding to it on their own at home. It is often a stage the children are at, and are still in the process of learning to be confident and enjoying independence.

Yes, it is naturally frustrating for a teacher to have to go over everything umpteen times over many weeks because the student has forgotten everything because they haven't practiced. But that's all part of the job. Teachers are not paid to have small, pleasing concerts each week by good little teacher's pets, as though all they were doing is programming netflix for the next week's entertainment. Teachers are working with developing human minds, each with different and original drives and abilities.

Most of my students don't dream of becoming famous pianists, and a lot of them don't want to practice, but most of them actually do, and a lot of them practice because we're always trying to discover what inspires them currently, as well as over the long-term, in each lesson.

I think it is so important to put preconceived ideas aside somewhat in the lessons, and remember piano methods did not just fall out of the sky ready-made and undisputed, but were and are invented. Music is essentially creative, and the creative mind is often strange, unconventional and wayward, and things should be discussed with, and not forced on, the student. Teaching methods should allow for the student's own ideas to take a part, and help the student articulate and become aware of their own ideas.

If there is a particular goal - such a a recital the student wants to do - then, yes, there are certain practical things that need to be done to achieve that goal, but if the goal is vague and mostly in the teacher's mind ("I want my student to shine in virtuoso light..." and the student just wants to come to lessons for the fun of it, and because they like the feel of pressing the keys (which is perfectly valid), then everyone is bound for frustration.

I couldn't disagree more. Anything doing is worth doing well. If you want to fool around on the piano now and again, that's great. But to pay a professional for their lessons and then not complete the necessary work is nutty.

When kids go to school, they're expected to complete the necessary work. Nobody worries whether their artistic little minds are being constrained by the demands of school.

pianopi, if you're a teacher, you should have that info in your signature according to the forum rules for professionals.

Now back OT: I have no idea who you are arguing against here. Which teacher said or implied any of these things as reason for wanting their students to practice?

And why must it all of a sudden be for the teacher's benefit to want a student to practice and reap the rewards of actually learning how to play piano well?

There are teachers out there who will only work with the very motivated and talented, and that's great - it's there prerogative, and they are the ones most likely training the next generation of concert pianists. That's a good thing, and it serves a particular role. None of the teachers who post here are one of those teachers, however.

Well said.


That depends on the school district and the level of the parents. Most students and parents these days don't particularly care about education.

Go easy on the Ira Levin allusion! Your hyperbolic extrapolations border on the Kafkaesque.

Think about it: If you eliminate expectations, then what are you left with? Each teacher has his or her right to set expectations. I have my own set of expectations. Heather has her own. Students and their parents are free to choose the right fit.

I wouldn't want a teacher that didn't have practice expectations- I'd see it as a sign of apathy. I'm paying too much money and piano is too difficult to learn without practice.

The point that I think is being missed:

For those who love music playing is as addictive as cocaine is to a drug addict.

No one every told me to practice - EVER. It would be like me telling a student to spend more time playing games on the computer.

For the record, I've spent hours over the last couple week solving the puzzles to "The Room", I II and III. I don't consider it wasted time.

The reason people don't want to play is that they never get good enough AT playing. They never learn to read well, they never learn to be able to play by ear well. It's all too slow. They can't play what they want to play without the road becoming frustrating, ridiculously repetitive and boring. If it had been like that for me, I would never have pursued playing the piano.

I say this every day to my students: if math and language skills were taught as badly as music, in general, few would read, few would be able to do math, and the majority of all students would remain illiterate.

Gary I don't know, maybe you're an exception.

I love to play, once I sit down to do it, but getting me there was the hard part. As a child and as a teenager, what came more naturally than piano was socializing with friends and playing on the Internet, so I did have to be told every once in awhile to practice. There were definitely weeks where I didn't practice at all, and sometimes my teacher noticed and got upset (usually if I was starting a new piece, it was super obvious), and other times, she didn't notice and I seemingly improved without practice (fresh eyes can do things too)!

There definitely was one kid in our studio who practiced hours a day unprompted. We all knew who he was and considered him a kind of prodigy He did go on to become a professional musician.

The "exception" was that I loved music and loved learning the music I loved.

But that SHOULDN'T be the exception.

I'll repeat: the way music is taught usually leads people to struggle.

The additional problem is almost total ignorance re family and friends.

If I had to struggle to read a book, if every book had been like that, I would not have become a good reader and I would not have loved reading books.

When I was young, there was always someone to ask about what a word meant, how to look it up. I had help from my parents and family.

But no one but my teacher had any idea what I was doing at the piano.

I was fortunate. That teacher was my grandmother, and she was a wonderful teacher. I had no idea that playing an instrument was work for other people.

I thought of writing in a couple of days ago. It starts like this: 1. without practice you can't get far, and if you don't move forward it's discouraging. 2. but this assumes that the student is being taught decently, so that she can do the assigned work; b) that the assigned work lends itself to being able to be practised, c) that the student has had guidance on how to practice / skills are being developed along the way toward this. If 2. is weak or doesn't exist, then diligent practice will not yield results, and can be frustrating. Of course if the student doesn't pay attention in lessons / doesn't want to learn piano in the first place, and/or doesn't practice at home - if the parents interfere or are non-supportive, then 2. is ineffective regardless of how excellent the teacher.

What Gary says goes to a large part of this.

Before I ever had lessons, I spent a lifetime playing any instrument I could get my hands on. It was amateurish, ofc, with amateurish technique. But when I got a piano as a child, the first thing I learned to play was sonatinas from a 1910 book handed down from a Bayreuth conservatory that a non-musical relative had been forced to attend. I spent hours some days, not just figuring out the music, but experimenting and exploring freely. It was stress-free and fun. Then in my 50's I took lessons on a new instrument. We covered umpteen grades in a single year, the instrument was badly made, I did not acquire the skills, and in a year it collapsed so that every practice session of the now higher grade material was a struggle. I didn't give up, but that 2nd year is a black, dark memory of great unpleasantness. It was as if the walls were closing in on me. The "only" thing missing were untaugt, untrained skills.

When I was at high school, the Music Department was always a hive of activity, with its eight practice rooms buzzing with cacophony or melodious mellifluousness (or mellifluous melodiousness), depending on who was in each. We could easily suss each other out when we walked past the windows of each room - who would be seriously practicing their scales & arpeggios or pieces, who would be vamping (often me, with or without my violinist friend). None of us needed to be told to practice. OK, we were all doing ABRSM exams, which do focus the mind somewhat, the same way that all school exams do.

But we all loved music, and took part in many extra-curricular activities: singing in the school choir, playing in the two orchestras (junior and senior), or brass band or jazz ensemble. The school fostered a strong culture of classical music: even students who weren't musical learnt to sing from sheet music. It was a part of school life. The end-of-year school concerts always had a short, simple choral piece where all students take part in, like the Kyrie from Haydn's Nelson Mass, or O Fortuna from Carmina Burana. And there were weekly lunchtime concerts for which where anyone could sign up to perform, no matter what your standard. Even a few musical teachers took part - our RE (Religious Education) teacher performed his own (elaborated) piano arrangements of hymns once a year. And we had our own would-be virtuosi, including a future Tchaikovsky Piano Competition winner, whose concerts were always well attended. Who with a musical brain wouldn't want to hear - for free - a teenager performing Chopin's or Liszt's B minor Sonata or the Appassionata or Pictures to the manner born? (This was in the age when YT meant a tube with you in it). Yet, very few of us were heading for a career in music. But I think that most of us would still be involved in classical music in some way as adults, whether as passive consumers (attending concerts) or in amateur music-making.

In my case, it helped that I was hopeless at any sports - everything from soccer to rugby to cricket to athletics. Music (and chess) was my main recreation. Strangely, a few decades on, I discovered that I was actually OK at endurance sports like marathons and high-altitude mountaineering.....

It contains a logical error , if compared with the piano learning process . In the school you was forced learning to read , and no one asked your permission to do so. But later you decided which books to read.

This is a huge difference, if you are part of a community of music students, or one-on-one with a private teacher.

Gary's premise is that a student needs to be taught the skills that enables the student to do the task. If teaching is of poor quality, the student will not get the skill, and therefore cannot do the task. He has seen poor quality of teaching in music, and therefore lack of skill, therefore inability to do the task. In comparison, the teaching of reading words is not usually of such poor quality, and reading words is deliberately taught, therefore most students can read words. But reading music is often poorly taught or not at all. There is no logical error if you understand what is actually being said.

I have taught in the public school system, and have taught students privately who had problems in this area. I also have advanced linguistic training and a lot of experience. I've worked with students who struggled with reading (words) because of inappropriate teaching and changed that for them. It is NOT true that being forced to do something daily for years will make you be able to do it. If that forcing is done in a bad way, it does not lead to success.

You have not understood the main point, so by responding to what you think was said, you are destroying something extremely important. I don't know if you read my response yesterday. As a student of a musical instrument I experienced missing skills and therefore struggled. When I got the skills I stopped struggling. I agree 100% about skills. I cannot see how you could disagree with it, once you understand the point.

I agree with you Keystring.

Having the right tools is paramount, specially when learning a difficult skill like playing music

Again I can't speak as a music teacher, but I have my view as a student and parent of students too.

I believe that in half an hour a week there is very little that a teacher can do to motivate students to practice, aside to make the lesson enjoyable (do not mean "fun", I mean that despite the effort required, they still enjoy the progress and your company on weekly basis) while providing the necessary tools to complete the assignment.

The routine of practicing between lessons has to be reinforced at home (by the parents for young students, and self enforced for older ones). There might be some resistance at times (at the beginning or when something that they find difficult needs learning, or simply because life happens sometimes) depending on the student, but once the routine has been established, it should not be a problem. It is an expectation that needs fulfilling. The problem is when the parent or the student cannot commit to a practice schedule early on in the lessons. Those are likely to fall in the "no practice" category.


Music is something that makes you feel or it doesn't. On the same token, learning feels rewarding or not. For students (children and adults alike) to be inclined to practice, they need to enjoy both aspects. If music makes a student feel, and they find learning rewarding (learning makes them feel good for the achievement, nothing more) you will see regular practice. (progress may be slow, but they will enjoy the journey).

Now you can take all different combinations of grades of the above, and you will get the ones that practice a little when reminded (or will find time for it) or those who would rather die than practice (music doesn't make them tickle and learning is a chore).

Something I also find, it is that I never feel I am any good if the only thing I do on the piano is practicing. At that point I am always working on something that I need to master, doesn't flow, and feels difficult. That is why I keep at least one day a week to play through my favorite pieces, so that I have a pleasant feeling associated to the instrument. I also encourage my children to play other things in addition to their assignments for the same reason.

English is not my first language, and we have two different words to play instruments and play with toys. When they play familiar pieces, I am encouraging the latter, and their enjoyment is that of a game, not a burden.

As a result, the more they "play", the better they become, the easier it gets, and the more they practice. It is like a vicious circle. Difficult to start, but fueled from within.

It contains a logical error , if compared with the piano learning process . In the school you was forced learning to read , and no one asked your permission to do so. But later you decided which books to read.
[/quote]
Kids don't necessarily learn to read in school. School reinforces also. I grew up in home where reading and books were cherished. I had books to read in before school.

Music was also everywhere, although only my grandmother read music in my immediate family.

You totally missed my larger point: most kids do not have the support of community and family when learning music. This is getting increasingly worse in the US...

Our teacher asks the daughter if she did practice if she thinks there is not enough progress. And reminds and requests that she practice. I as the one parent also learning piano, try to establish the routine that my daughter practices just before bedtime routine starts. I am working on this for almost two years now and it is still not automatic, just sometimes.

I think the only approach that works is that you make it daily routine. Daily. With kids, there are enough non-routine days when you will miss out anyway. So strive for daily and you'll get five out of seven or so.

The beginning is hard, when the child is not able to see its own progress. Once the child can see its own progress, there is reward. And once it realizes that practicing produces progress which produces reward, then it gets a lot easier. I still wonder how I can support learning that better.

Hendrik, your post reminded me (it being New Year's resolution time) how we adults all have things we'd like to do better at, that we could do better at, that relate to things important to us... but we don't do it, due to some mix of laziness or forgetting or not making the time. I know there are areas of my life that I wish I had the equivalent of a piano parent to keep me on task!

Requiring practice isn't forcing a person into an activity they hate. It's taking seriously someone who wants to learn piano and providing the external structure needed to get them there.

You asked about assignments. It's different for every student but here's an example for someone maybe 7 yrs old playing a few hands-together pieces (10 min or more per day at the piano)
Listening: several pieces daily
Reading: two rhythm and two note-reading exercises a day, 4 measures each
Old favorites (review): either playing through three old pieces that are well in hand or one easy one plus one that will take a little work to retrieve
Working piece #1, usually some specific task like "play measures 2-4 with good legato 5 times a day" then play as much of the piece as they know
Working piece #2, if piece #1 isn't that time consuming: something easier like "play right hand 8 measures and add if you want".

It gets less structured as they become more experienced, but there's always some kind of reading and/or technique assignment, either review or short-term repertoire or both, and longer-term working pieces. I always give specific goals for the working pieces but I know the more experienced students will be working in their own way as well and playing things I didn't assign; my assignment is just a minimum.

Isn't this a bit much? How do you follow through at the next lesson? More specifically, how do you ascertain that the work has been done?

I can imagine this regimen for my more talented students, or the hard-working ones. Half of my current students will quit lessons if I start requiring this much work.

Ditto. I could never make such requirements of average students.

Well, bear in mind for this level the pieces are very short so it takes maybe 45 seconds to play a review piece. For that kind of focused short section work then playthrough on a working piece, maybe 3 minutes if everything is fresh in their minds (ie practice is daily or close to it.)
Giving assignments that are achievable, clearly defined and take the right amount of time is constantly an art/balancing act. I'm sure I still have much to learn, but this approach is working pretty well for those who get to the piano most days a week, which is most of my studio. Over time I've learned that only adult students can follow vague assignments like "clean up the ending" -- the kids can't figure out how to work that way and the teenagers don't want to make themselves.

They WILL create their own goals/projects though, like playing other pieces or working ahead on their own, and I've learned both to support that (easy) and to be ok with the fact that they don't do it in a way where the material is really that securely learned (not as easy, but treating that as "extra fun activity" not "assignment" helps)