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#261038 - 05/16/08 02:06 PM Steinway Z
Benecs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 170
Hi!

What is your experience with the Steinway model Z upright piano? I have never played one, but there are some for pretty good value, others very expensive. Does it have the same quality as other models have, or is it the low budget hamburg steinway? I have nothing against its design, if the sound is a good as on other steinway uprights.

Thanks for your help,
Benecs
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1897 Blüthner Model 6
Pearl River UP117

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#261039 - 05/16/08 02:31 PM Re: Steinway Z
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
I am embarassed to say that I am not familiar with the "Z" model Steinway & Sons. Is this a new model or one from days gone by? Where have you seen them or heard of them?
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#261040 - 05/16/08 02:49 PM Re: Steinway Z
Benecs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 170
John Lenon had one, and composed "Imagine" on it. But I still don't know, if it is as good, as other steinway models of similar size.
_________________________
1897 Blüthner Model 6
Pearl River UP117

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#261041 - 05/16/08 02:58 PM Re: Steinway Z
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
What size? NY or Homburg?
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#261042 - 05/16/08 03:02 PM Re: Steinway Z
PianoPro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 314
Loc: Iowa
This may get me crucified. Steinway without question is a premium grand piano builder. Their upright pianos are not so special. People tend to overpay for Steinway uprights based on the fanfare of the grand business they do. I find it unwarranted and would suggest you could spend far less on a better upright piano.

Now, let me get a running headstart before all you Steinway fanatics start firing shots at me! \:D
_________________________
Dennis C.
Piano Store Operator,
Former District Manager,
20 Year Industry Experience

"Tell the truth, honor God, and make money!"

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#261043 - 05/16/08 03:09 PM Re: Steinway Z
Benecs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 170
It is a 114 cm instrument made in Hamburg. Let's say if I can get it for about 1000€, would it be worth? It is 20 years old.
_________________________
1897 Blüthner Model 6
Pearl River UP117

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#261044 - 05/16/08 03:18 PM Re: Steinway Z
DarkGreenChocolate Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Michigan
I'm open to the possibility of better-than-Steinway uprights, but I've never played one: I want names.

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#261045 - 05/16/08 03:32 PM Re: Steinway Z
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Steinway mdl.Z looks very much like a Yamaha M1 with the grand lid prop.It is 115 cm,no toe blocks and usually of higloss polyester being manufactured in Hamburg. Having never owned or played one,it is probably pretty decent being a late mdl. Hamburg mdl. with Renner action etc.

Pianopro,you're running for cover alot lately.Are you a martyr for punishment. \:D Good reason to be in the piano biz. \:\)
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#261046 - 05/16/08 03:38 PM Re: Steinway Z
PianoPro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 314
Loc: Iowa
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianobroker:

Pianopro,you're running for cover alot lately.Are you a martyr for punishment. \:D Good reason to be in the piano biz. \:\) [/b]
Two things that are untouchable here at PW: Steinway and Larry Fine! :rolleyes:

Incoming!
_________________________
Dennis C.
Piano Store Operator,
Former District Manager,
20 Year Industry Experience

"Tell the truth, honor God, and make money!"

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#261047 - 05/16/08 04:21 PM Re: Steinway Z
PianoPro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 314
Loc: Iowa
 Quote:
Originally posted by DarkGreenChocolate:
I'm open to the possibility of better-than-Steinway uprights, but I've never played one: I want names. [/b]
I'll give you a few. Seiler, Bechstein, Schimmel. Here are a couple of dark horses: Petrof (nice uprights, fair prices)and...drum roll please...YAMAH! Hey, the U1 is tremendous and a top selling model globally. I'd rather play some of these than ANY Steinway I have ever played. I'm personally not as high on Kawai, but many people here are. Certainly wothy of consideration against Steinway UPRIGHTS (expensive and unimpressive).

I'm gonna get it for this one! :rolleyes:
_________________________
Dennis C.
Piano Store Operator,
Former District Manager,
20 Year Industry Experience

"Tell the truth, honor God, and make money!"

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#261048 - 05/16/08 04:31 PM Re: Steinway Z
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1785
Loc: Central TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by PianoPro:
 Quote:
Originally posted by DarkGreenChocolate:
I'm open to the possibility of better-than-Steinway uprights, but I've never played one: I want names. [/b]
I'll give you a few. Seiler, Bechstein, Schimmel. Here are a couple of dark horses: Petrof (nice uprights, fair prices)and...drum roll please...YAMAH! Hey, the U1 is tremendous and a top selling model globally. I'd rather play some of these than ANY Steinway I have ever played. I'm personally not as high on Kawai, but many people here are. Certainly wothy of consideration against Steinway UPRIGHTS (expensive and unimpressive).

I'm gonna get it for this one! :rolleyes: [/b]
The one Charles Walter I've heard was quiet nice. Anyone heard the Bosendorfer upright? I don't remember anyone ever commenting on it, I assume it's a rare beast (prolly due to the cost, I assume).

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#261049 - 05/16/08 04:52 PM Re: Steinway Z
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
 Quote:
Originally posted by PianoPro:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianobroker:

Pianopro,you're running for cover alot lately.Are you a martyr for punishment. \:D Good reason to be in the piano biz. \:\) [/b]
Two things that are untouchable here at PW: Steinway and Larry Fine! :rolleyes:

Incoming! [/b]
Nono, you missed 1 more :

Yamaha's are bright
Kawai's are mellow

\:D \:D

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#261050 - 05/16/08 04:54 PM Re: Steinway Z
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
Take away some of the interesting cabinets S&S has fielded over the years and IMO their vertical pianos are pretty lack luster, performance wise, for their price. IMO the exception is the K52 model. I will stack that beast up against any the world has to offer.
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#261051 - 05/16/08 05:06 PM Re: Steinway Z
Rank Piano Amateur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1734
Bosendorfer uprights are fabulous, but, as you pointed out, very expensive, especially for an upright. I have played wonderful Bosendorfer, Pleyel and Mason uprights. I play a Schimmel upright every week, accompanying a violinist friend, and it is astoundingly good. The owner purchased it used, and it is a terrific ambassador!

By the way, and by way of response to PianoPro, I do not think that anyone posting honest and fact-based opinions on this forum should be inhibited by any brand's fan group from doing so. It is truly a shame if anyone feels that they need to withhold legitimate, albeit subjective, opinions because they fear verbal attack that goes beyond appropriate disagreement. Of course, the level of discourse should ideally remain civilized and polite. But we all need to remember that any opinion about an individual piano must of necessity be at least somewhat subjective, and that reasonable persons can differ about the various brands. What makes this forum interesting and fun is at least in part the expression of differences of opinion. Inhibiting debate by indiscriminate use of ad hominem and irrelevant attacks would really wreck the effectiveness and fun of this (or any) forum.

Anyway, enough preaching. Sorry, but the idea that people cannot express their opinions because they fear verbal reprisal seems repellent. And it should not just be up to Ken Knapp to keep an eye on this--we should be able to control ourselves.

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#261052 - 05/16/08 05:29 PM Re: Steinway Z
PianoPro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 314
Loc: Iowa
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rank Piano Amateur:

the idea that people cannot express their opinions because they fear verbal reprisal seems repellent. And it should not just be up to Ken Knapp to keep an eye on this--we should be able to control ourselves. [/b]
Well, I have come to expect it. And frankly, I'm offering my opinion regardless! I'm pretty thick skinned, it's just the daily skinning that has me a bit tender! \:D Besides, I can't really afford better entertainment than this... ;\)

My disclaimer: My opinions are mine and mine alone. If they offend you, get over it. If you disagree, your in good company. If you agree, it's a miracle! \:\)

On a serious note, I just strive to maintaine a high level of integrity in an industry where our customers have become cynical and as competitors we are too often mean spirited. I'd like to see us as a community move past this. I'm 40 years old and have spent over half my life in this business. It's up to all of us, dealers and customers alike (yes, customers lie too!), to keep it clean and honest.

I have said it before and will say it one more: Tell the truth, Honor God, and make money!
_________________________
Dennis C.
Piano Store Operator,
Former District Manager,
20 Year Industry Experience

"Tell the truth, honor God, and make money!"

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#261053 - 05/16/08 05:34 PM Re: Steinway Z
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
You will have to get your own lead-lined jock. Mine is in service.
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#261054 - 05/16/08 07:13 PM Re: Steinway Z
Benecs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 170
Hm, thanks for the many responses, but I'd rather be interrested in your opinion about the model Z than your opinion about steinway globaly versus others. I think that's a mater of taste. I think the question, whether Bösendorfer, Blüthner, Bechstein or Steinway is better doesn't really make sense. All are wonderful instruments, but also very different, and this makes it possible for everyone to find his/her favourite. I think it's great to have these different pianos.

But now let's come back to the original question, the model Z!
_________________________
1897 Blüthner Model 6
Pearl River UP117

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#261055 - 05/16/08 07:20 PM Re: Steinway Z
DarkGreenChocolate Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Michigan
 Quote:
I'll give you a few. Seiler, Bechstein, Schimmel. Here are a couple of dark horses: Petrof (nice uprights, fair prices)and...drum roll please...YAMAH! Hey, the U1 is tremendous and a top selling model globally. I'd rather play some of these than ANY Steinway I have ever played. I'm personally not as high on Kawai, but many people here are. Certainly wothy of consideration against Steinway UPRIGHTS (expensive and unimpressive).
I'd like to try some of these. As I've said on other threads, I think uprights in general are woefully underrated. I do think the S&S 1098 is a very fine instrument, though indeed quite pricey if you buy new today. I wonder how many of those you mentioned are significantly cheaper. Yamaha, for ex., is v. good for the price, but not, to my taste, at any price.

I don't understand statements like the one about Yamaha being better than ANY Steinway. Pianos are so individual, esp. European or American ones.

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#261056 - 05/17/08 12:01 AM Re: Steinway Z
g#maj Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 126
Loc: No. Va
Benecs said: "I think the question, whether Bösendorfer, Blüthner, Bechstein or Steinway is better doesn't really make sense. All are wonderful instruments, but also very different, and this makes it possible for everyone to find his/her favourite. I think it's great to have these different pianos."

EXACTLY! We have choices, and that is wonderful. Let our ears, pocketbooks, and
(ir)rationality decide.

Sorry I can't help you on the Z. Never heard of it.

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#261057 - 05/17/08 06:37 AM Re: Steinway Z
Benecs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 170
For those who haven't seen a steinway Z yet, here is a picture:

http://images.google.hu/imgres?imgurl=ht...ficial%26sa%3DN
_________________________
1897 Blüthner Model 6
Pearl River UP117

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#261058 - 05/17/08 08:57 AM Re: Steinway Z
doctorbaz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 10
Loc: UK
Benecs,

I've played a Z, a brand-new one, and it was really very nice indeed.

And for 1000 Euros an absolute steal. Buy it without hesitation at that sort of price. If you want to sell it on later, it will be very easy to do so with the S&S name, and you'll probably get back at least five times what you paid for it if you advertise it well.

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#261059 - 05/17/08 01:17 PM Re: Steinway Z
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
I owned a Z until a couple of years ago. In fact it looked exactly like the one in your picture. Mine was 1970 and sounded great. It had a soft velvety tone and was very smooth to play. I sold it for £5000. If you can get that one for 1000 euros then good luck. My guess is that it will be considerably more than that.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#261060 - 05/18/08 05:46 PM Re: Steinway Z
Benecs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 170
Thanks for your replies! You seem to be right Chris, the piano is now at 1500€ on ebay. The auction ends tomorow. In the last minute this price will double itself I think, but I don't think one will pay 5000 for it unseen. I thought the price might stay low, because the case is in horrible condition. Many people wouldn't buy a piano if it looks that bad. There might be some techs looking at that piano. After refinishing and regualting, and with guarantee the piano sure will be worth a lot, but I'm not an expert...
_________________________
1897 Blüthner Model 6
Pearl River UP117

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#261061 - 05/18/08 07:41 PM Re: Steinway Z
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
 Quote:
Originally posted by Craigen:
Take away some of the interesting cabinets S&S has fielded over the years and IMO their vertical pianos are pretty lack luster, performance wise, for their price. IMO the exception is the K52 model. I will stack that beast up against any the world has to offer. [/b]
I'm no expert, but I love the sound of this K52...

Listen:

http://www.countrypiano.com/showroom/steinway/steinway-k-125896.htm

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#261062 - 05/18/08 07:56 PM Re: Steinway Z
blue rondo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Midlothian MD
 Quote:
Two things that are untouchable here at PW: Steinway and Larry Fine! :rolleyes:

Incoming!
I always felt that Moe Howard was the untouchable one. Moe used to pull Larry's hair and Larry would just make a funny sound, kind of like he was in pain . . . .

\:D \:D \:D

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#261063 - 05/18/08 11:51 PM Re: Steinway Z
MAKitt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 158
Loc: Albuquerque/Rio Rancho NM
The Z I owned for a few years had ivory keytops, mfg. yr. 1959, maple cabinet finish (meaning blonde), 40" and Hamburg of course. It had a small tone, not gregarious. Never expressed well in the store due to white noise from rest of store but I thought it had potential in a home. That is where it was designed for as were other continental consoles due to smaller living spaces in Europe. One of my colleagues sold mine and I've regretted it since. My advice: buy lots of pianos. Enjoy, they have different personalities and can pull various moods and inspiraton from you.
_________________________
Owner,Kitt Fine Pianos
Albuquerque, NM
Gebr. Perzina, the new Ritmuller, Hallet Davis & Co., old M&H's of course

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