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Hi,
I would like to make some research on the topic. Sorry if it was asked and answered multiple times here. So anyone could tell about how the stuff work this days in this area please? Can a non-prepared person, say, like me, tune the piano at home by himself using what? Some Android or PC software or hardware tuner devices? Please be so kind to share your experience. Thanks.
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You need a tuning lever to manipulate the tuning pins, and a pair of wedges, or a Papps mute, to mute off individual strings. It's got to be a proper piano tuning lever - socket wrenches, spanners etc won't work. You need to develop the muscle skills to manipulate the tuning lever on the pin. As for software, there are various options available for piano tuning software, including the free trial version of the excellent Tunelab.
But the first step is to get the tuning lever and wedges/mutes and practice tuning unisons. It isn't easy!
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Yes, sure, I know about the tuning lever, etc. So seems it's all doable...
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Take a look at Entropy Piano Tuner it's free and runs on laptops, tablets and maybe phones. I know several forum members have successfully used it - but you still need to trust your ears. Paul
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Thank you. I'm not sure I want to trust my ears, LOL. I did not know the Entropy Tuner is free, thank you, I heard good things about it. I'm checking the TuneLab Pro right now, need to better read the manual to understand the inharmonicity corrections., etc. BTW what are the limitations of the demo version, anyone? I guess the hardest part very possibly will be to get the good tuning lever and to get used to it physically. I have some garbage one somewhere in my house, need to find it and at least to try a bit.
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You will have to do the following:
1) Know where each pitch must go 2) Have it stay there (Stability) 3) Know what a good unison sounds like - these are better tuned by ear.
1) Can be done with the machine
For 2) and 3) you will need some direction and training and practice,
but yes, it can be done if you are willing to put in the time.
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It took me a lot of time, coming from my background as a classical-orchestral violinist, to learn what a piano unison should sound like. No vibrato? Who ever heard of such a thing? And, of course, what I was hearing as "vibrato," my teacher was hearing as "clashing partials."
Dorrie Bell retired piano technician Boston, MA
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Tunelab Pro Demo limitations: You can tune 12 notes, then you must wait 2 min.
Last edited by Mark Cerisano, RPT; 02/09/17 12:44 PM.
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Thanks everybody for the input, much appreciate. Couple of more questions. I'm playing around with the TuneLab, still was not able to find the lever. Looks like amazing software.
Maybe not the best place to ask, but it is still related.
1. Is it OK to use the TuneLab on a cheap smartphone? Will it be better to use it through a decent microphone > PC? So I can use the lower partials, or even the fundamentals through the whole diapason, will it benefit then? 2. I was capturing the inharmonicity settings. They recommend to use just 5 notes to set the curve, does it make any sense to have the data from all 88, will it be more accurate? I believe that on my antique Bechstein grand the low strings (mostly original ones) have crazy different coefficients. I captured about 12 lowest notes and the curve look very different compared to if I capture just one or two notes. 3. Please recommend a place online where I can get a "good" tuning lever and a couple of wedges for a reasonable price.
Thank you.
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1.
Good mic = reliably reproduced partial frequencies = good tone. Good mic does not equal better frequency reproduction. Hertz cannot be added or subtracted from a sound. Therefore, your cheap smart phone should be ok.
Listening to fundamentals does not mean better results and may mean poorer results if the goal is to produce desirable beat rates which occur at higher partials, not the fundamental, usually.
2.
Ideally yes, and some ETDs do just that. Verituner, Dirk's, Entropy. But the results still often need to be tweaked by ear. If you care about a good sound, you will need to train your ears to tune aurally. This takes time. Otherwise you are at the whim of the machine.
3.
I have a store. So do other techs. Howardindustries comes to mind.
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Thank you so very much for your time, Mark.
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1.
I have a store. So do other techs. Howardindustries comes to mind. Also, stevespianoservice.com -- the longest-running piano supply on the internet. Operated by an RPT.
Keith Akins, RPT Piano Technologist USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
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If you are interested in depending on the electronic device to come up with the best tuning for your piano, you might want to read up on what differences there are between competing platforms. Most, if not all manuals are available online...
Such things as your questions of why not sample all 88 notes with Tunelab might be answered. Look for when and where the software makes assumptions or educated guesses based on mathematical concepts...
A lot depends on your expectations for the tuning quality, but yes, there have been more than a few that started from where you are right now. You might search here for "grandpianoman" who posted many recordings of his pianos as he worked to reach higher levels of tunings over the years.
Ron Koval
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"A lot depends on your expectations for the tuning quality"
Anything slightly better than "terribly out of tune" will be perfect for me in my situation. I have a couple of nice very old instruments and trying to find some use for them right now. Many factors involved, like the place I live right now, the absence of good piano masters around, etc.
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You are in an excellent space to learn to tune by ear. Go for it. It is so freeing. No electricity needed. No batteries. Only your own wits.
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"You are in an excellent space to learn to tune by ear. Go for it. It is so freeing. No electricity needed. No batteries. Only your own wits."
I have too much respect towards this area of expertise that I don't want to step into in lightly, while I'm not able to invest a significant amount of time and energy to do it seriously.
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Well, like I said, stability and unisons will require a significant amount of your time, anyway.
One constant in piano tuning: no matter what level someone is at, they always think it will be easier than it is, and that they somehow are more talented at it than they are.
I'm saying that from personal experience ;-)
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Well put! Describes me too! North Bennet Street School was a lot more difficult and demanding than I expected, when I based my expectations on my own valuation of myself --
Dorrie Bell retired piano technician Boston, MA
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What I remember about my beginning days is that my first tunings did not sound very good. Today, I look back at that as a sign I had talent for tuning.
Semipro Tech
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OK, so after it seems I got the answers I was looking for, now it's time for some offtopic.
I'm from a musical family, was playing all my life, was able to extremely close inspect the work of many tuners or how you call them - the overall piano masters. Was happy to have one top end professional, genius master near me for some period of time.
I would like to say that from some specific perspective I don't owe too much respect to the pure "tuners" or "tuning". Please get me right, I'll try to explain. Imagine a situation. Say, I live in a foreign town, being, say, a music student, struggle for money, in a rent room, etc. Was able to buy some woods, I mean some upright, cheap. Practicing for lets say at least 4-5 hours a day. Next I'm in a search for a piano person to help me to maintain the instrument. And next, say, I find one. So, he come to my place, spend some 4-5 hours doing an "amazing" tuning, in several passes. Great. I pay significant amount of money. And it's all to be completely wasted in about an hour of learning some Chopin etude afterwards. Do you see what I mean? It's not the right situation and not the right piano for it. And I was countless times in such situation. I respect a skilled tuner working in a professional recording studio or in a concert hall making the finest adjustments in the recital intermission. For most of my own "real life" situations I owe a huge respect to those who can regulate, repair, etc. my piano. I don't need the finest tune, about which the "tuners" love to speak so much. I believe there are a very few situations when it's really required. I'm not a student any more, but I'm still in my "real life" situation, when I don't need my tuning to be super great, just somewhat OK will be totally enough. Even if I'll fail in it it will still be OK. My pianos have too much problems of their own to have a perfect tuning on them. Overall I switched to MIDI - PC technologies quite firmly. So whatever.
I'm sorry if what I wrote above may look offensive to someone, it definitely was not my intend. I'm a humble person and really very grateful for the help with my initial topic. Just some friendly chat.
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Andrei, our words may be taken that way, but try to read them for what they are: advice.
For example, even to tune your piano yourself to your lowest standard will take a year at least. But don't believe me, I wouldn't. I would dive in and start tuning pianos myself and break strings. Seriously, that's exactly what I did and I'm encouraging you to do the same thing. Then we can talk. :-)
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Yes, Mark, I understand what you mean, and, sadly, I believe you :-) Thank you!
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Hi Andrei,
If you are patient, meticulous and have a good sense of self-criticism, you can do it. I tune my grand piano myself, never damaged a string or anything. It's very easy to do mistakes, but if you go slow and are very careful, you can avoid lots of trouble.
It's one thing to tune a piano, and another to achieve a stable tuning. I don't know why, but from the start using my own technique I could do stable tunings. Takes me three times longer compared to what a pro needs, but I really enjoy it. I also regulate my piano myself as well. Pianos are fascinating machines. Wish you the best of luck.
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Andrei,
Like you I use Pianoteq and also had a 28 year old upright piano. I joined this forum about two years ago to learn to tune and regulate it. I bought the technicians book written by Arthur Reblitz and learned a lot. However I quickly realised that my goal to learn to tune with only my ear would be a long process.
So I now use Tunelab software and also Entropy software which is free. They use different tuning principles but generally produce similar results.
Soon I was able to by a new piano which initially was retuned by a professional. I then decided to tune the expensive Bluethner myself. With the help of many in this forum I am now reasonably good at tuning.
Using the tuning lever and understanding how the pin and string moves is the key to making progress. It takes many attempts with the lever to get satisfactory results.
I consider it a worthwhile challenge.
Your Scriabin Etude playing is very good ☺
Ian
Last edited by Beemer; 02/10/17 09:05 AM.
I'm all keyed up 2016 Blüthner Model A
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Thank you guys, just ordered, sorry, inexpensive lever, this one: https://www.musicstore.de/en_RU/USD/Koenig-Meyer-166-Piano-Tuning-Lever-nickel/art-ACC0004952-000How can I be sure it will fit the pins of my 100+ years old Bechstein grand and about the same age Seiler upright? I still have a couple of hours to reconsider. It will take about a month to receive it by post. I'll tell how many strings I broke later on.
Last edited by Andrei Kuznetsov; 02/10/17 10:05 AM.
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Size 2 tip fits most. Unless the pins are original and size 0, or oval. Yes they made oval pins. Not sure if bechstein did though. Maybe order a few tips. #1, #2 should be fine. The pins are tapered so one tip can fit many pins. Don't forget to order the tip wrench.
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There is no information about the size of the tip on that page, and Bechstein sometimes used very small pins, so you will not be able to tell whether the lever will work or not until you try it. That lever does not have interchangeable tips, so if it does not work, you will need to send it back if the lever will not grip the pins firmly.
Semipro Tech
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Egads, I did not click the link. No, no. do not buy that hammer. This at least is better, but still looks like a toy. https://www.musicstore.de/en_RU/USD...ning-Lever-Set-nickel/art-ACC0004954-000Isn't there a better supplier near you? North American suppliers would ship to you. Try this link: http://www.pianoteile-baumgaertel.de/Type "SOLE - Tuning lever set, without extendible shaft" into the search box. No prices. You need to register. Tell them who you are and what your problem is (No tuners in your area, you are studying, etc)
Last edited by Mark Cerisano, RPT; 02/10/17 01:34 PM.
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Sorry, already ordered. It is really inexpensive. I will try it at least. If anything I'm OK to buy a better one later.
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Unless it has shipped, you can probably cancel the order.
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Is it THAT bad?! I don't want to spend some $150 just to understand that overall it is not my thing after all later. As opposite I'm OK to spend more afterwards.
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I did not order that another one with tree heads because it really look too weak, at least the one I ordered look a bit more firmly. After all some $150 for Russia have significantly another value than, say, in the US. I mean I can definitely afford it but need to be quite sure about it.
Last edited by Andrei Kuznetsov; 02/10/17 03:01 PM.
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Ordinarily, I would say that the one you ordered was adequate, but not with an early Bechstein.
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Pins pictures: http://imgur.com/mbeWCWdhttp://imgur.com/7GGI6FFSo for the 4 sided pin the single side is about 4.5 mm. at the tip.
Last edited by Andrei Kuznetsov; 02/10/17 03:29 PM.
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Andrei, did you just say a cheap tuning hammer looks more solid than a $150 tuning hammer?
I respect your decision to try out tuning with a less expensive model, but I question your logic if you say, without even holding either lever, that the cheaper one looks more solid, when experienced tuners who have held both kinds have told you otherwise.
Your success in this venture will depend greatly on your ability to judge the accuracy of advice given and to accept said advice.
Good luck.
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The 167 is a better choice for you.
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They have messed data all around about the sizes, here is the one from K&M website, says 6.2 mm.: http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Stands-an...ning-tools/166-Piano-tuning-lever-nickelI actually pretty much sure all the tuners who worked with my piano in the past used the standard sized levers, I'll definitely remember if they mention something about it.
Last edited by Andrei Kuznetsov; 02/10/17 06:23 PM.
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What I remember about my beginning days is that my first tunings did not sound very good. Today, I look back at that as a sign I had talent for tuning. This raises my confidence.
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Andrei,
I sympathise with your problem. The USA manufactured tuning levers are of very high quality and I would have preferred to buy one of these. However the additional cost of possible import duty, value added tax, plus high cost of transport to the UK made me also buy in Europe.
There are many warning mentions in this forum that low cost levers are bad. Perhaps those made in China are not wise to purchase but Konig & Meyer are a 60 year old well respected German manufacturer.
The star head of a tuning lever is tapered and as long as the tip of the pin does not hit the bottom of the star head, or the lowest surface of the head does not hit the string coil then the fit should be alright. That said the difference in cost between the model you bought and its 3 sizes tips version is not great.
My lever tip is a number 2 which is typical for new pianos. However it does not fit tightly on any pin and I do not think it needs to do so.
Many here discourage the use of "goose neck" levers which is the type I use. The theory behind their thinking is that such a design has a greater tendancy to bend and that the user will not be able to tell whether it it the lever they feel bending or the pin twisting before it moves. My feeling is that many expert tuners are seen on You Tube fine tuning using one finger as the force. In that case it is not reasonable to say that a finger can bend a 10mm steel lever. Perhaps there are those who have tested this, we shall see.
Ian
Last edited by Beemer; 02/11/17 07:46 AM.
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I've never experienced any flexing with the lever I use, and yes it is a gooseneck lever. All I can say it that my lever (Jahn) is very good to feel the pin moving in very small movements. I used an extension lever in the past and I really don't like it. I tune the highest notes on the piano with a higher tip. Extension levers look very fancy, beautiful, ... but I have no feeling with it. The Jahn lever I use isn't that expensive and works great with my tuning technique. Personal preference of course!
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Flexing in a tuning hammer is never a good thing. You can never have too much stiffness there. Perhaps you can get used to a certain amount of flexing, but why bother?
I have seen Steve Fujan at the PTG conventions where he brings a dial-indicator test bed to measure tuning hammer flex. He sells an excellent tuning hammer made of carbon fiber for light weight and balance, and he can show you with his instrumentation exactly how much flex his hammer has compared to yours. Being a mechanical engineer by training, Steve knows where to put the most stiffness, which is close to the pin. Some other carbon fiber hammers have carbon fiber in the handle, but then ruin it by not having a thick enough neck. I recommend you check out the Fujan Tuning Hammer.
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Flexing in the system is unavoidable. Stiff hammers can reduce that but I prefer not to have to deal with flex at all.
Think of it like this: trying to place the pin foot at exactly the right spot is like trying to move a box on a table to an exact spot.
You can hold the box with both hands and just place it there. If it's not exactly where you want it, you can move it around, having great control. (Stiff shaft analogy)
You can just use one hand and slide it along until it is where you want it, and stop pushing. You have to have good skill or you'll have to approach again. (Slow pull analogy)
Use one hand and tap it into place. (Nudging, tapping, impact, impulse analogy)
Only the first technique needs a solid contact it both directions. Slow Pull and Nudging do not.
I use a traditional hammer, I'm sure with flex, and never felt the need to try a stiff shank. I've passed the RPT exam and I am also a mechanical engineer. :-)
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About the goose neck hammer, it has a too steep angle between the lever and the head, that's what flexes the pin, try a lever with a 5° angle and you'll see and feel the difference.
About rigidity, I have a student tuning hammerand a Fujan. The difference in control when tuning is huge! With the Fujan you know exactly how the pin is twisting and when it turns in the pinblock.
I've used both of them and I know the difference, contrary to people who has never used a carbon fiber hammer and can only wonder what the difference is.
Trying a hammer for 15 minutes is not enough to appreciate it's full potential, there is a learning curve to explore the possibilities of a different tuning hammer.
I really do not understand why people talks about things they don't know and they have no experience with.
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About the goose neck hammer, it has a too steep angle between the lever and the head, that's what flexes the pin, try a lever with a 5° angle and you'll see and feel the difference.
About rigidity, I have a student tuning hammerand a Fujan. The difference in control when tuning is huge! With the Fujan you know exactly how the pin is twisting and when it turns in the pinblock.
I've used both of them and I know the difference, contrary to people who has never used a carbon fiber hammer and can only wonder what the difference is.
Trying a hammer for 15 minutes is not enough to appreciate it's full potential, there is a learning curve to explore the possibilities of a different tuning hammer.
I really do not understand why people talks about things they don't know and they have no experience with.
For me to buy a standard Fujan it will cost me $325+$39 delivery which is $364 +20% uk tax makes a total of $436.80 = £350 uk pounds. So I doubt I will ever get the experience. However there are better materials coming along: Colossal Carbon Tubes (CCT) are 15 times stronger than Carbon fibre. Carbyne is another material stronger than carbon fibre and diamond. Perhaps one day both pins and one-piece lever and tip will be made of these and for much less cost. 😆Ian
Last edited by Beemer; 02/11/17 01:48 PM.
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Hi Andrei I just thought I'd chime in here about the tuning lever. I use this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/6Pc...-Mute-Kit-Tools-New-E1Xc/1111140203.htmlYes, it only costs USD20 but that black tip is very well machined. My tuner tried it when he replaced a string that I had broken and ordered one for himself to use on grand pianos. (I've posted about my adventures in the Entropy thread.) Now he said he uses it on almost all the pianos he tunes. I currently use Entropy on an old Android phone to tune my grand but the tuning is definitely not as good as my tuner who tunes aurally.
Absolute beginner tuner
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Tuning by ear requires certain knowledge and skills. So for the novice, nice to have some help in the form of a soft tuner . Try http://pianolab.ru - may be enjoy. The program is free.My piano I tune with this program about five years. If you have any questions write to the PM. And sorry for my English.
Last edited by Vladmir; 02/12/17 05:40 PM.
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Thank you Vladmir for that link.
Has anyone else here used this program?
Ian
I'm all keyed up 2016 Blüthner Model A
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Ian, unlikely, I just yesterday posted this link here. Pianolab mostly downloaded in Russia.
Vladimir.
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I have downloaded virus checked then installed it. It is quite different from other software. The biggest problem is that its user instructions are sparce and some words are still with Russian text.
There are some highly technical adjustments including sampling frequency. There may not be sufficient information for me to make a tuning.
From your link you can download the pdf file.
Ian
Last edited by Beemer; 02/13/17 01:43 PM.
I'm all keyed up 2016 Blüthner Model A
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So far so good! Did a couple of octaves today. Tuning my first ever string almost shet my pants. Same for the first 5-10. Now already more confident. Yes, it bends, yes, it jumps. But overall it definitely within my expectations. I decided to tune a few octaves (or less) a day. Will record something later.
I tried tapping - not worked for me, I don't feel it. I use more kind of impulsed pushes, with my hand always in contact with the lever. I deliberately don't try to be super precise, although I try to be as delicate as possible, it's fine for me if it is 'near', tiny bit 'under' mostly.
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I use more kind of impulsed pushes, with my hand always in contact with the lever. Very powerful with a gentle massage. These pulses can move the pin foot very tiny amounts.
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I use more kind of impulsed pushes, with my hand always in contact with the lever. Very powerful with a gentle massage. These pulses can move the pin foot very tiny amounts. That's pretty much how I set the pin. Gentle massaging and nudging to render the string while removing any torque and tension in the pin.
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Hello, A bit more questions if you don't mind 1) Is frequent tuning noticeable wear the pins faster? 2) Not exactly a question, strangely enough, after re-checking the tuning I made a week ago, it looks like some notes are a tiny bit higher than what I'd expect them to be. Not 100% sure about it but anyways, not what I would expect. Another ones are a bit lower, which is more predictable, obviously.
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1) Not in my opinion, up to a point.
2) Interesting. Pitch drift is due to changes in the soundboard, slipping pins, and the tension is the non-speaking length (NSL). Leave the NSL tension very high, and it could go sharp during hard blows.
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Andrei,
I'm new to this thread but I find it interesting. I agree with Mark that you don't have to worry about frequent tuning on your Bechstein wearing them out. ONLY IF you were dropping the pitch significantly and bringing it back up over and over and over. Then you could prematurely wear things out.
It seems to me that you now have the piano at proper pitch and you are only making fine adjustments. Yes? If so you're ok.
Now, are you familiar with what we techs often call a "test blow"? This is a medium-hard to hard strike on the key to REALLY make the string vibrate. It tends to redistribute the tension inequalities that you are inducing by "fussing around" with the tuning hammer. Although it is not the total picture, here is BASICALLY how it works:
1) Bring the string pitch to SLIGHTLY above where you want it to be
2) Put SLIGHT downwards pressure on the tuning hammer
3) While holding this SLIGHT pressure on the pin, give the note a decent strike...perhaps two
4) All the while you are watching your ETD meter to observe the pitch and what happens to it. It SHOULD go down a little with the "test blow".
5) Your goal is to learn how much you need to go above the target pitch so that you can settle it just about right on to the target pitch with the test blow and slight pressure. Then one or two more blows without pressure on the hammer to see if it stays put. If it doesn't, then you have to try again.
As I said, this is not the whole story as far as pin-setting, but it is simply a starting point for you to work at.
Now...since you are working on a Bechstein it is difficult especially in the center section where you have a very wide cloth string rest and the wire does not like to move freely. This can make it really hard to control, plus the fact that these pianos (with an open pinblock) require more "turning" (slightly) of the tuning pin rather than "flexing" of the tuning pin.
It is basically a "pain in the neck". However, I learned on a very old Bechstein too. So, it can be done.
There is something you can do to assist though.
Question (2): What kind of lubricants do you have available over there in Taganrog? Are you familiar with Protek lubricant?
Pwg
P.S. Nice to see your progress
Last edited by P W Grey; 03/14/17 01:01 PM.
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Thank you very much. Honestly I don't feel comfortable doing ANYTHING extensive to my very senior piano, like hitting the keys hard.
"What kind of lubricants do you have available over there in Taganrog? Are you familiar with Protek lubricant?" - I'm not familiar with this area, I guess it is possible to get anything over the internet this days.
Sorry for not uploading the demo yet, still planning to do it later.
My points about my tuning so far:
1. I enjoy doing it. 2. I would NEVER offer my tuning services to anybody else around (nor payed nor free) 3. I'm not aimed for perfection. I see that it is possible to tune my piano very good but I don't want it because it require a lot of time and concentration and also I still a bit concerned about pin wear. Due to, most likely, a not so good tuning lever of mine, the pin almost always move in jumps in my case (when tuning clockwise). So to make it close to ideal will require some more back and forth movements. 4. I do my best to avoid the counter clockwise movements. So again, if the tuning is just slightly below perfect - I don't touch it. Actually it may be the reason why I got the impression that some strings got a bit higher over time (NSL tension). 5. I tuned my piano -12 cents from A440 because it was slightly above it's current average. I may decide to adjust by 1 cent from time to time later on. 6. Recently I'm checking about a couple of notes across the whole range a day, slightly fixing some of them.
Whole my life I played on an extremely out of tune pianos and used not to pay much attention to it, it was normal to me and did not bothered me. What I have now is just crazy night and day difference to what I'm familiar with.
I'm super grateful to this forum very friendly community for all the help.
Last edited by Andrei Kuznetsov; 03/14/17 01:51 PM.
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Andrei,
The reason I asked about lubricants is because if you apply lubricant to the strings in contact with the cloth, it can become much easier to tune (more cooperative). BUT, not just any lubricant!
Do you have Ballistol over there?
Protek works quite well for this, but Ballistol would also work.
What actually happens is that over many years with corrosion and all and the pressure of the strings, the cloth takes on a "mirror image" of all the slight imperfections of the wire. When you try to move it, it sticks and jumps and does not want to go smoothly to stay where you want to put it. A little lubrication can make a big difference.
Let us know what you can get your hands on and we'll teach you what to use and how to use it.
Pwg
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Great, thank you so much, Peter, I'll check.
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BTW, as far as striking the keys hard...it does not need to be HARD, just firm. Mezzo-Forte is sufficient.
Also, over here Ballistol is sold in firearms shops. I think it usually more readily available on your continent.
Pwg
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Actually, you know, I need a bit of time to chew this information, very much appreciate it.
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New question.
I was tuning the D#'s today and TuneLab confidently suggested tuning D#1 -5.51 cents from reference and D#2 -2.00 cents, based on inharmonicity constants 0.241 and 0.168 respectrully. So as I did it that way it actually sound noticeable out of tune to me (3.51 cents difference for the octave). So what are your thoughts about stretching based on inharmonicity detection, can it be ignored? Overall according to TuneLab settings I have about 40 cents difference across the whole range, is it normal?
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Andrei,
Although I am primarily an aural tuner, I do own Tunelab and play around with it from time to time. I believe that the 40 cent spread you are talking about is quite normal. For me to be able to figure it out I would need to hear the beats and listen to what's going on.
Try this...when you play the octave, does it sound better to your ear when you "close it up" a little? If so, then tune it that way. If not, then tune it according to Tunelab and then play the whole piano and listen to the overall sound.
The problem with bass strings is that there are many more partials being heard than in other parts of the piano. It can be difficult to decider what is actually being heard unless outside tests are used.
Perhaps someone expert in Tunelab can be of greater help here.
Pwg
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Thank you, Peter. Overall, do you think it is a good idea to try to tune it all without any stretching at all?
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Thank you, Peter. Overall, do you think it is a good idea to try to tune it all without any stretching at all? Why? It will sound awful if you do. Stretch is inevitable if you tune octaves aurally. Trust your ears! Paul
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Stretchinge is necessary. However, if it makes you feel any better, I just had a piano today that no matter what I did way down there, it did not sound good. Could not get rid of any beats. Sounded lousy. Sometimes it happens.
I would trust the tunelab settings in stretch.
Pwg
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Stretchinge is necessary. However, if it makes you feel any better, I just had a piano today that no matter what I did way down there, it did not sound good. Could not get rid of any beats. Sounded lousy. Sometimes it happens.
I would trust the tunelab settings in stretch.
Pwg There are even worst. Have you tuned Yamaha electric pianos? You can not use an ETA,they get lost. And by ear there is no way to find correct sounding octaves neither. A true nightmare to tune them.
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Yamaha electrics are difficult, but not impossible. You have to use a lot of tests.
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Yamaha electrics are difficult, but not impossible. You have to use a lot of tests. Lots of tests... and all prove wrong When I am asked to tune one of these I barely resist to refer them to a fellow tuner. That's a job I really do not enjoy, no matter how I stretch the tuning it keeps sounding out of tune. I've tried even turning them off, tuning the acoustic piano, it's the same problem, they're so inharmonic that something always sounds bad.
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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