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Joined: Jan 2007
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Hey Shmoo, welcome aboard!! I'm dinged up pretty good and twice (plus some) as old as you ... I play for pretty much for the fun of it, but sometimes I'll hear something on tv, etc. then head to the keyboard to see what I can do with it. Not always but sometime you kinda get in a zone doing this stuff and the aches and pain go away for a bit... can't explain it, don't understand it, maybe it's just Grace. I guess it's a trade out.
Find the fun in this discipline if nothing else.
Rerun "Seat of the pants piano player" DMD ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Joplinbadgetiny.jpg)
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When you're watching someone play all you see is their unique physiological reaction to their intention. But it's the intention you need to follow.
Many golfers, for example, begin their swing on the leading side but that's just a physiological reaction to trying to move the hands first. When you try to jump you always dip down first without conscious effort. Intending to jump will cause the subconscious dip first; you don't want to dip as a conscious move. The body instinctively knows how much to dip and how quickly when it's allowed to get on with it.
Richard
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My suggestion would be two fold:
1) Watch on YouTube artists such as Rubenstein or Lang Lang and observe how effortlessly they play. They play with an inner energy that you can also learn by playing with a completely relaxed body, but it takes time. However there is no rush.
I have to disagree here. Rubinstein ok, but I've seen Lang Lang do some things with his body that are not healthy at all. Also, watching people play is no substitute for a good teacher. Lang Lang is magic, and he does it because it is how he feels not because someone told him to do it. "This above all, be true to yourself." This is why I am avoiding teachers until I find one who understands naturalness. The are a million ways to play the piano in a relaxed manner.
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Joined: Apr 2016
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My suggestion would be two fold:
1) Watch on YouTube artists such as Rubenstein or Lang Lang and observe how effortlessly they play. They play with an inner energy that you can also learn by playing with a completely relaxed body, but it takes time. However there is no rush.
I have to disagree here. Rubinstein ok, but I've seen Lang Lang do some things with his body that are not healthy at all. Also, watching people play is no substitute for a good teacher. Right...you want someone who knows what they are doing watch you play. Some people may need to be taught how to be relaxed while playing. What needs to be avoided are teachers who create stres. As for me, I continue to wait until I find a teacher who understands relaxed play with a smile. It's a hobby for me not a job. 😃 As a matter of observation, Lang Lang send to be enjoying himself much more than many other concert pianists I have observed. C'mon smile a little!
Last edited by Richrf; 02/16/17 10:45 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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My suggestion would be two fold: 1) Watch on YouTube artists such as Rubenstein or Lang Lang and observe how effortlessly they play. They play with an inner energy that you can also learn by playing with a completely relaxed body, but it takes time. However there is no rush. 2) If all you want to do is create music with your body, then choose very simple melodies that you can play without effort and that you can enjoy. Or you can practice simple scales. Do it for a short time so that you do no damage to your body. In fact, playing with complete relaxation will even help the body heal. It is like a deep meditation. There are several Youtube teachers that you can observe that are totally relaxed. Observe how quietly this jazz pianist plays: Jazz pianist I believe relaxation is the key to any art. What you are seeing is technique, gained over several decades of playing. Relaxation is a part--a sub-set--of technique.
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/15854.png) Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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Joined: Apr 2016
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Relaxation is a part--a sub-set--of technique. Relaxation in my view is not a subset. It is core. It is fundamental. How does one find it? For some it comes natural. They sit down at a piano and immediately feel at ease. For others, they might benefit from some ideas that a teacher might relate. Usually, such ideas revolve around using imagination. When I look for a teacher of any activity, I usually look at how well they can teach relaxation.
Last edited by Richrf; 02/16/17 01:01 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Relaxation is a part--a sub-set--of technique. Relaxation in my view is not a subset. It is core. It is fundamental. How does one find it? For some it comes natural. They sit down at a piano and immediately feel at ease. For others, they might benefit from some ideas that a teacher might relate. Usually, such ideas revolve around using imagination. When I look for a teacher of any activity, I usually look at how well they can teach relaxation. I know what you're saying about relaxation, but I think that's a broad strokes term that can be applied in a couple of ways. I prefer when speaking strictly of the physical way by which we play the piano as efficient rather than relaxed. This is simply because we do have to use some muscles, and not use any more than are absolutely necessary for only the exact length of time they are needed and no longer. There is also mental/emotional tension that can manifest itself in how we physically play the piano. These two need to be addressed differently, but the word "relaxed" can be said about both and still be correct. Just not specific enough, IMO.
private piano/voice teacher FT ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/2529.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/9342.png)
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Right...you want someone who knows what they are doing watch you play. Not just watch, a teacher in person can actually touch you. That's how they detect excessive tension. The classic test is for the teacher to unexpectedly try to flip your hand away from the keyboard while you're playing.
-- J.S. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/7588.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/7589.jpg) Knabe Grand # 10927 Yamaha CP33 Kawai FS690
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It's difficult to explain, but the energy to play is not coming from mechanical muscle movement. It is coming from somewhere else. Here are two accomplished musicians attempting to explain the feeling. https://youtu.be/xMG247zUzB0https://youtu.be/ZlKtIHL9sPMWhile I understand this via my Tai Chi practice, I've never had a teacher who could explain it or even attempted to teach it, though no doubt it was part of their own skills. It was only on YouTube videos that I observed so teachers attempting to explain this approach.
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Somehow I don't think you can be taught what comes with experience. No matter how much you watch and try to mimic a great pianist and listen to them explaining how they do it, you still can not do what they do.
You can be taught skills and methods to cultivate them, but in the end the effortless manner either is there naturally (which is rare but seems to be possible) or comes with time, practice and familiarity. Feeling secure and only doing what's necessary comes within, but it cannot just be inserted there by an outsider. You can plant the seeds for it to develope.
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I agree, this kind of feeling, where the pianist is connected to the strings by a energetic imagination, cannot be taught but can be learned. But no amount of repetition will get students there if they are not utterly relaxed and using imagination (not will). When I practice a simple tune or lick, I always observe how relaxed I am, and am I connecting to the strings. I avoid complexity for now, because it gets in my way.
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