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Just remember, words on screens are like notes on paper - open to many interpretations
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That you can separate the art from the technique is quite interesting. And that you believe that there is one proper way is even more interesting. It's this what you were taught? Without the technique to express what you want to express, there is no art. Agreed. The two are inseparable and ultimately it is about creating music. What a teacher might hate I might love. What a music publisher might love (four money making piano books at 15 different levels books) I might be amused by. It all comes down to personal, highly subjective, tastes as does everything in life. Finding a teacher may be far more difficult than learning a scale. ;
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Guys. Darn this blew up haha. Ok let me clarify some stuff about myself when it comes to learning the Piano. First i do think proper technique is very important. Wile i'm probably to old at 32 to play recitals or performances. No matter how fast a learner i might be. Though if an opportunity does present itself down the line i'll go at it head first. I was raised on the beliefs to dream big, never give up, work hard and give it your all (blood, sweat and tears idea) to accomplish said dreams. Now like i said i'm still a bit realistic that seeing my age chances are extremely slim. And i accept that. But that doesn't mean that i won't learn and train with the same vigor as i would when i was younger. Now as to self learning or teacher. As mentioned before i do have a teacher lined up. But she hasn't responded yet so i'm still not further as to which books. BUT. Let me make 1 small thing clear. Something which was explained earlier btw. I did mean with "all books" everything that belongs to a single level/grade. I know Alfred's all-in-one has everything for level/grade 1 in it's single book. BUT. Books like those from Faber as it seems are divided and have every separate subject (theory, repertoire, technique etc.) in a separate book. So you would need to get "all" of those for the same level/grade to get the "complete" package as it works together. Now as to why i wouldn't mind "learning ahead" a bit on my own before starting with a teacher. I know how to limit myself. I know that for me personally (and opinions vary a lot it seems) technique is important (like you would be judged on in a competition). I also do believe technique is important to be able to express yourself. But i also think that you need that artistic emotion to bring the technique alive. Basically. I think you need to have both as they both enhance each other. But i also know how to limit myself even though i might get overly excited. So i would limit myself to music theory, reading, (basic) scales and some easy not to complex songs. I wouldn't push myself into a position where i might learn really bad fingering techniques by trying overly difficult things which might set me back a lot in the long run. I do however know how to read most of the music already as it's not the first time reading sheet music. But piano is a bit more complicated than i'm used to. I'm also not to worried about my posture if i'm honest. I'm at the good height and distance with the right angles in my arms and a good straight back. And it's also something i continually check before i start. I don't just drop down on my but and play. I go and sit, see if i'm in the right position, right distance etc. And after that checks out i start. Now after reading all this some of you might think that i'm nuts. That i'm crazy or whatever. I just call it being passionate and stubborn. And if my better half is to be believed i have an overabundance of both when it comes to the Piano. PS. added extra bit. I do have enough time to dedicate my life to it. Which seems extreme i know. But aside from my training in the gym and house work i can dedicate everything to it. Call it a happy accident .
Kawai CA67
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While i'm probably to old at 32 to play recitals or performances You underestimate yourself.
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It is good to have the choice. The Piano Adventure has 14 books for Primer Level, and a couple more, but one is for the teacher and one is an option with CD. Their Web Page If you can buy them at 6 or 7 dollars, the price for 4 is ok. Level 1 has like 11 options. It sounds good for those of us who can be indefinitely in a level. I can't imagine what the Theory book for a Primer is about. I don't know which would be necessary. I personally would prefer more to buy the one for Christmas, Performance...the ones with Music to play. But what if you get lost with Theory? You need the Lesson Book, if you are not sure about what else.
Last edited by Albunea; 02/18/17 05:42 PM.
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I do however know how to read most of the music already as it's not the first time reading sheet music. But piano is a bit more complicated than i'm used to. So you probably don't want the Primer Theory book, for example.
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I just call it being passionate and stubborn. And if my better half is to be believed i have an overabundance of both when it comes to the Piano. I do have enough time to dedicate my life to it. Which seems extreme i know. But aside from my training in the gym and house work i can dedicate everything to it. Call it a happy accident . Then it's very important to get started right and build a solid foundation. And as you say, not to get lost in the plethora of method books available. So this will become the focus right now, and you will need to do a lot of research on that subject. The answer may not necessarily be found in the most popular and colorful books. It might be possible to find out what material reputable, and advanced piano schools are using in their curriculum. Either now, in the past, or both.
Will do some R&B for a while. Give the classical a break. You can spend the rest of your life looking for music on a sheet of paper. You'll never find it, because it just ain't there. - Me Myself
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Hey guys. Little update. Got word back and tomorrow Alfred's AIO bk.1 will drop in my mailbox together with Czerny Op.599. Alfred's was my teachers idea and i was able to get Czerny's for practically free with it (both for 10 euro) so she said to just order it with it and we'll get to that when we do (though i did take a look inside and think i can at least start at the beginning already). It's a relieve to have a book now and not having to worry anymore about which to get tbh. Nice to know that i can make a solid start as well with all the information available and help i'm getting to get a good solid foundation. Btw. RaggedKeyPresser i do agree there. I don't care about something being popular or colorful. I just need it to work and teach me what i need to know. You know. I am also actually visiting the Royal Dutch Conservatory either this week (hopefully) or next week and see what i come home with from there (maybe everything i start now changes. maybe not we'll see ). Seeing as my first goal to work towards (yep extremely big goal i know but it's something to work for) is acceptance in the BA program for Piano (classical). And yes i am probably older than 70% of the students there. I don't care. My life right. Rather really giving it a try than to regret never having tried at all. Anyway. That's the current state of things. Got some more sources of help as well. Originally i was also looking at programs like flowkey, synthesia and others but decided to stay away from them in the end. Wile they might be fun to learn new music with i think it would actually work against reaching my goals compared to actually reading the music and learning from the sheets. Also thank you Whizbang. Maybe i do underestimate myself. But i already try to reach for some high goals so i should try to humble myself a bit so i don't turn into Icarus If that makes any sense haha.
Kawai CA67
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If you're with a teacher it doesn't really matter which method you choose. The 'how' is the important thing not the 'what'. Learning piano is a long enough adventure that you'll be out of method books soon enough and however you get there, you get there.
Richard
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... Wile i'm probably to old at 32 to play recitals or performances. No matter how fast a learner i might be. Though if an opportunity does present itself down the line i'll go at it head first. The next recital hosted by this forum will open for submissions May 1st. and are held quarterly. All levels are welcome. The only requirement (the way I view it anyway) is that you try your best and get something recorded. Preferably something that demonstrates well, where you are and what you may need the most help with now. It is not about impressing anyone and it is not a contest. It is about learning with others that either have been, or are also in a similar space.
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Well the teacher in the end is a no go. At least the one i was so excited about. Ended up calling her and when i mentioned that i'd want to really try and still enter the conservatory she started laughing like i was joking. That was clearly not going to work because i need someone who's as serious into this as i am. So i'm shopping for a new teacher now as well but i'm waiting with that until after i visited the conservatory. Greener i'm loving that idea. Really thank you. I still need to buy myself a printer cable to hoop the DP to my PC and some recording software (i know it has build in recording options but just prefer this way). But that should be all done before then. Just going to really practice my but of. Not to beat anyone else but to beat myself. And of course i hope to play something more than twinkle little star haha. Btw. bit of an odd question at the end. Stared in Alfred's 2 days ago. And trying to take it slowly and going everything multiple times so it really sinks in. But still already 40 pages down. Is that normal or what? Also started on the first page of Czerny 599. Idk. Just felt like it and at half speed it's ok .
Kawai CA67
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Timothy:
You seem to be getting way, way, way, way ahead of yourself on your journey.
You have even "fired" a potential teacher before things have even begun because you didn't think she shared your "enthusiasm" for your future as a pianist.
Guess what ... if someone comes to me and tells me they wish to be an Olympic Champion skier and they are 32 years old and have never skied, I might laugh too.
Suggestion ...
You may wish to have somewhat less lofty goals at this time.
I suggest this one ...
Try to select a teacher and do what that teacher tells you to do for 3 months and then see where you are.
The truth is .... you can have all the enthusiasm and all the fantastic goals and plans you want ... but if you cannot sit at a piano and do simple things that a teacher suggests, you will get nowhere.
Good Luck To You
Don
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Hey Don. Appreciate the response but let me clear something up a bit. I didn't "just" fire her only because she laughed. I did because the laughed and said stuff like "at your age forget it you are never going to make that happen". What goes is a teacher really going to be if she or he isn't even willing to consider something and just downright talks you down. I couldn't care less if someone laughs at the idea. But i expect more from a teacher. At the very least in how he or she acts after they are done laughing. Btw. i don't really put "want to be an Olympic Champion Skier" and "wish to enroll in the conservatory" on the same line. Those are to me very very different. And it's not like i don't know exactly what is needed to make such goals a reality. But if just enrolling into a music academy is already a lofty goal. Damn. To me that's exactly what a lofty goal is. Maybe it's just a difference in background and/or mentality idk. But i've always learned to "reach for the stars" and so far always succeeded in every goal i ever set for myself. Though maybe that makes me thing to easily about this idk. Edit: just to add. I'm not saying i want to enroll in like a year or shorter or something. I know the work that must come before which i'm more than willing to do and luckily also in a situation in life where i can do that without having to worry about anything most "adults" have to (finances, jobs etc.). All that is covered and my better half is 100% supportive and behind me on this . Now you do make me wonder about something though. You say try to select a teacher and do what he/she says for 3 months. Are there so many people that quit that fast that you would suggest that or do you mean it in another way? PS. Knowing myself. If i say anything at all that might be insulting to anyone then i apologize here and now. Learning new things, especially instruments, have always just been very easy and come natural to me. So i might talk lightly about certain things that in actuality aren't.
Last edited by Timothy-NL; 02/23/17 05:35 PM.
Kawai CA67
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I didn't "just" fire her only because she laughed. I did because the laughed and said stuff like "at your age forget it you are never going to make that happen". What goes is a teacher really going to be if she or he isn't even willing to consider something and just downright talks you down. I couldn't care less if someone laughs at the idea. But i expect more from a teacher.
But if just enrolling into a music academy is already a lofty goal. Damn. To me that's exactly what a lofty goal is. Maybe it's just a difference in background and/or mentality idk. But i've always learned to "reach for the stars" and so far always succeeded in every goal i ever set for myself. Though maybe that makes me thing to easily about this idk.
Now you do make me wonder about something though. You say try to select a teacher and do what he/she says for 3 months. Are there so many people that quit that fast that you would suggest that or do you mean it in another way?
Learning new things, especially instruments, have always just been very easy and come natural to me. So i might talk lightly about certain things that in actuality aren't.
If I may make a suggestion - if you want a serious teacher, don't even mention your 'lofty goal' to a prospective teacher. Just say you're a serious student and will put in as much work as required to become the best you can be. You'll be much more likely to get a serious teacher who will work you hard and push you to be the best you can be. If you tell your prospective teacher straight off that your intent is to get into a music academy and that teacher says: "Of course you can", chances are, that teacher is just taking you on for your money.
If music be the food of love, play on!
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If I may make a suggestion - if you want a serious teacher, don't even mention your 'lofty goal' to a prospective teacher.
Just say you're a serious student and will put in as much work as required to become the best you can be. You'll be much more likely to get a serious teacher who will work you hard and push you to be the best you can be.
If you tell your prospective teacher straight off that your intent is to get into a music academy and that teacher says: "Of course you can", chances are, that teacher is just taking you on for your money.
Thanks Bennevis. I actually like that suggestion. Now i'm cooling down a bit and think about it more (tbh. writing these post does help with it. though the thinking usually starts AFTER the posting haha) it might've been better not to take someone i've known as a prospective teacher. Think i'll take your suggestion to heart and won't talk about it when i meet a new possible teacher. At least not in the first months.
Kawai CA67
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In regards to teachers, I never gut it out if there isn't the chemistry. I am just looking to enjoy the time. For the teacher it is a business, for me it is a hobby. I prefer not to mix the two which is why when I teach Tai Chi, I never take money.
As far as Alfred's is concerned (I method that I've learned doesn't fit me at all), what I do is get a Youtube demonstration of the piece that I am practicing and play along as well as listen individually until I feel OK with it. You'll also want to observe the different ways teachers interpret the same piece.
Last edited by Richrf; 02/23/17 05:56 PM.
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If you tell your prospective teacher straight off that your intent is to get into a music academy and that teacher says: "Of course you can", chances are, that teacher is just taking you on for your money. Exactly ! That first teacher (who got fired) was a truth teller. She may have come on a little strong with the laugh but the truth is valuable.
Don
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Now you do make me wonder about something though. You say try to select a teacher and do what he/she says for 3 months. Are there so many people that quit that fast that you would suggest that or do you mean it in another way? Well, let me put it this way ... Many will either quit or try some other "better" way to learn. If you can go 3 months of weekly lessons without bailing with out quitting or trying some other way of learning, that will be a major accomplishment and will indicate that you actually ARE SERIOUS about this and not just blowing smoke. As they say ... in this game, the proof is in the puddin'. Good Luck to you
Don
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If you tell your prospective teacher straight off that your intent is to get into a music academy and that teacher says: "Of course you can", chances are, that teacher is just taking you on for your money. Exactly ! That first teacher (who got fired) was a truth teller. She may have come on a little strong with the laugh but the truth is valuable. Sorry, Don, I do not agree based on my own experience. I have what others, as well as myself, would consider an irrational goal, but my teacher did not laugh NOR is she just taking my money. Her reaction by the look on her face and her actions was 'Well, a little crazy? Yes, but at least I have an adult student that is committed to a goal, even if the goal is somewhere over the rainbow'. Will I ever make it? The odds are less than being struck by lightening.. but I could care less. The goal and the effort are still there; no matter what happens, I will be a better pianist. I would be really offended if I had a goal of entering a conservatory later than the average student and the teacher laughed. Is it probable? Unlikely. But a better response from a teacher who was supportive would be 'Well, that is a goal that will be quite difficult to achieve; let's see what we can do together, recognizing the difficulties no matter the effort'. THAT would be a teacher who was honest but also took an adult student seriously. IMHO
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First thing: Wanting to eventually attend conservatory or go into music at a college level is not akin to wanting to compete at the Olympics. Wanting to be the next Lang Lang or Horowitz or Rubinstein or whoever rocks your boat, is. Or wanting to be a top soloist is. Or planning to get into Juilliard. Aiming for conservatory or a music degree isn't. Isn't there at least one person here who has done that? Secondly: If somebody does want to eventually attend conservatory, then maybe the teacher needs to know that. Obviously first things first: getting rudimentary, basic training in basic things in music and building from there. It might be good for the OP to stress that he wants to work at his level, will do what is needed at each stage, follow instructions etc. - but he is hoping eventually to enter conservatory. If particular things are needed or looked for at conservatory, then they can be worked toward at the beginning. And here I'm thinking of basic things which for a "hobbyist" are often skipped. I very much liked Bennevis suggestion to say you are a serious student and you are willing to work hard (for the duration). I'd add - follow through, consistently, over years, or you'll make it all the harder for the next student who comes along stating he or she is serious. Don wrote: Try to select a teacher and do what that teacher tells you to do for 3 months and then see where you are. Unless goals are stated, this can backfire badly. Also not mentioned is how to select the teacher. What can happen is that teaching goes toward hobbyist goals, quick results goals, things being skipped and whatnot, and a novice student will not know this is happening. You also won't necessarily be able to see where you are, because what do you base yourself on? In my first experience, where I was after 5 months was 3 grade levels in, and having passed an exam with high grades. The comments written by the examiner might have given some clues, in hindsight. If you have included goals in your equation, then I'd feel more at ease about this. In regards to the teacher who laughed, I think that Timothy may have dodged a bullet.
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