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#2617700 - 02/24/17 03:12 PM Mechanical problems with tangents
Sverre Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 5
Loc: Norge
I've just got a piano of the brand Finger which has problems with some tangents. It is in the first upper octave, from F # to A, and the A in the first lower octave. Not always, but occasionally I do not get the tone.

Without any knowledge about piano mechanics, I checked it. I can observe the jack butt, and therefore passes it instead of lifting it. See attached picture which show this problem in the F# in the first upper octave.

_DSC2479 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/148367802@N07/]


I’ve got the piano for free, and have no budget for a professional repair now. Therefore, I wonder if you have any advice for how I can try to fix this without the risk of irreparable mistakes.

I assumed that long use or age has deformed the soft part of the butt connected to the hammer, the piano is perhaps 40 years old or more. I also considered that the much dryer environment in my living room compared to where the piano came from. Now I just learned a lot from the first answer, and understand that other issues are more likely.

The jack springs of the affected tangents seem ok, the jacks move easily back, but maybe the springs are not ok anyway. If the jacks move easily, the central joints should also be ok? But I’m not the one to know if the movements are good enough. Would there be an idea to adjust the set off button to prevent the jack to move to far forward, or is that not the function of the set off button?

Some day in the future I need to tune the Piano. Do piano tuners do such repairs on site?




Any suggestions or advice with hope for a solution?

Thank you so much
Mr. Sverremac
Bergen, Norway


Edited by Sverre (02/24/17 04:15 PM)

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#2617705 - 02/24/17 03:26 PM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: Sverre]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 24547
Loc: Oakland
There are diagrams on the internet that will give you the names of all the parts. You should refer to one.

What I would check is whether the jack spring is broken, or the jack's center pin joint is too tight.
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#2617722 - 02/24/17 04:20 PM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: BDB]
Sverre Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 5
Loc: Norge
Originally Posted By BDB
There are diagrams on the internet that will give you the names of all the parts. You should refer to one.

What I would check is whether the jack spring is broken, or the jack's center pin joint is too tight.



Thanks BDB, I learned a lot form your short answer. I changed my post after my new knowledge.

The jack springs seem ok, at least not visible damaged, and they have the force to move the jacks, but maybe not enough. I don't know about the center pin, but the jacks moves easily, as far as I am able to consider. I wonder if an adjustment of the set off button would prevent the jack from going too far. But that is maybe not the function of the set of button?

As mentioned in the post, some day in the future I need to tune the Piano. Do piano tuners do such repairs on site?


Edited by Sverre (02/24/17 04:22 PM)

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#2617790 - 02/24/17 08:04 PM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: Sverre]
P W Grey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/17
Posts: 77
Loc: New Hampshire
Sverre,

There are a number possible causes for this:

1) Jack spring weak or broken
2) Capstan on key set too high
3) Backcheck set too far away
4) Tight bushing on Jack
5) Key front heavy
6) Any combination of the above
7) Something else

Quite difficult to accurately diagnose it from this distance.

Pwg
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New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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#2617795 - 02/24/17 08:17 PM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: P W Grey]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1335
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By P W Grey
Sverre,

There are a number possible causes for this:

1) Jack spring weak or broken
2) Capstan on key set too high
3) Backcheck set too far away
4) Tight bushing on Jack
5) Key front heavy
6) Any combination of the above
7) Something else

Quite difficult to accurately diagnose it from this distance.

Pwg


7) To add to "something else" list:) It could also be the pads on the hammer rest rail have compressed or have fallen off.

Can you get the regulating specs for your piano from the internet or from the manufacturer? Although regulating specs are not Holy Writ, they can be a good general diagnostic guide.

But first, as suggested, you want to make sure there are no mechanical issues such as weak/broken springs and binding jack action centers.

Edit: One more possibility... If the let-off rail is too close to the jacks, the jacks could be getting caught when the key is released. Sometimes, the screws that hold the let-off rail come loose and the let-off rail changes position.


Edited by daniokeeper (02/24/17 08:21 PM)
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Piano Tuning & Repair
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#2617796 - 02/24/17 08:34 PM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: Sverre]
Sverre Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 5
Loc: Norge
Thank you P W Grey and daniokeeper. This was quite advanced for me. I understand a professional probably has to do this. But I hope little things like a replacement of a spring, or an adjustment of parts slightly out of place, can be done by the one who comes to tune my piano in the future?

A weak feather seems likely, since the jack in some occations slips to hit the hammerbutt, but in other cases are quite perfectly in place. Or at least I WISH a weak feather is the case, because it seems easy to fix.


Edited by Sverre (02/24/17 08:37 PM)

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#2617806 - 02/24/17 09:55 PM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: Sverre]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1335
Loc: PA
Hi Sverre,

Not all tuners are well-experienced with repair; some specialize in tuning only.

You may want to bookmark this thread in case your tuner has a hard time diagnosing the problem.
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

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#2617876 - Yesterday at 07:39 AM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: daniokeeper]
Sverre Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 5
Loc: Norge
Originally Posted By daniokeeper
Hi Sverre,

Not all tuners are well-experienced with repair; some specialize in tuning only.

You may want to bookmark this thread in case your tuner has a hard time diagnosing the problem.



Thanks, I will call some local tuners and piano sellers and hear what they say.


Originally Posted By Sverre
[quote=BDBI wonder if an adjustment of the set off button would prevent the jack from going too far. But that is maybe not the function of the set of button?


You didn't mention the set off button in your list? Does that mean it does not have any function in this?

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#2617893 - Yesterday at 09:03 AM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: Sverre]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 24547
Loc: Oakland
You can have a problem if the let off (or set off) button rail is loose. Tightening the screws that hold it in is about the only thing that I might suggest that an amateur that does not understand how the action works try. Otherwise, it is better to wait until your finances improve enough to have someone repair it. Even then, it is important that it is the screws that hold the button rail in place that are tightened, not the screws on the buttons!

If you do the wrong thing, you can make the piano worse, and make it harder to repair.
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Semipro Tech

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#2617979 - Yesterday at 03:41 PM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: Sverre]
Sverre Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 5
Loc: Norge
Originally Posted By BDB
Even then, it is important that it is the screws that hold the button rail in place that are tightened, not the screws on the buttons! If you do the wrong thing, you can make the piano worse, and make it harder to repair.


Thanks BDB! Yes, I understand that the screws on the buttons is too delicate to be handled without knowledge.

This was a piano for free. Here in Norway, as I guess it is other places too, people give away pianos because it is hard and expensive to get them out of their houses. I could go for another free piano. But I have already sort of fallen in love with the sound and the appearance, and I want to get to know it. And it was an effort to get this into my house. I have no idea of the cost of the repair. But I hope it would be as easy as a tuner with some new jack feathers in his pocket. wink


Edited by Sverre (Yesterday at 03:55 PM)

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#2618060 - Today at 12:13 AM Re: Mechanical problems with tangents [Re: Sverre]
Bourniplus Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Quebec
Hi Sverre, if you could take a video with a quality as good as your picture, that might help to diagnose the problem. When it occurs, does the hammer move at all, or the jack just slips?
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