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Has anyone here tried these caster cups? Any opinions on these vs Jansen caster cups?

http://www.pianofortesupply.com/piattino1.html

Before I knew about these cups, I saw a picture of a Boesendorfer on PW that may have used these cups and I thought the cups looked particularly beautiful with the black piano and brass casters.
Unfortunately, I do not remember on what thread I saw this photo of the Bosie. Does anyone remember which photo this might be or who the owner was?

Those sure are attractive, but they look pretty tall to me. I'd be worried about them raising the piano so much off the ground that the pedals wouldn't be at a comfortable height.

I think they are less tall than the Jansen cups (or at least only raise the piano three eighths of an inch off the floor).

According to the site, only 3/8".

Has anyone used these yet?

If you look at their website (http://www.piattino.de/) - unfortunately only in German - these caster cups must be quite special. The company's website is entirely dedicated to that single product (Piattino Caster cups in a few sizes and finishes), design goal, research...all included.

At the same time, at least in Europe, they are not cheap; prices are from € 93,- to 138,- ($ 124,- to 184,-)/set of 3 and from € 124,- to 160,- ($165 to 213,-)/set of 4, depending in diameter and finish.

schwammerl.

FWIW, I bought the Jansen cups In ebony but used them only for a while. They raised the piano about the same amount as these I think (about 3/8" or so). Doesn't sound like much but I couldn't get used to it. The pedals were too high no matter how you sliced it. You might want to put some books or boards under your casters to raise the piano 3/8" as a test to see if you can adjust to the extra height before spending this much money.

Bosendorfer has their own brass caster cups available. They are not the same as any Piattino cup that I've seen. Of course, this doesn't mean that perhaps Piattino is their supplier.

I'm curious as to how much these would actually reduce vibrations through the floor to an apartment below. Do they really work?

Hi, I just stumbled onto this thread. As the North American distributor of Piattino and a friend of the developer, I hope I can answer any questions out there.

There is no connection between Piattino and other brass caster cups on the market - they usually just have a thin rubber pad in the underside.

Piattino Acoustic Caster Cups are unique in a number of ways. They were designed to tackle the problem of sound transmission (conduction) from the instrument into the floor and from there into other parts of the building, especially the rooms below. In Europe, this is a common issue, where very many people living in appartments want to enjoy their piano as much as possible without disturbing their neighbors.

Piattino Caster Cups incorporate about 1.5" of acoustical insulation, yet only raise the piano 3/8" off the floor. This is important for pedal height, keyboard height, and finally, looks. I think most of the wooden or plastic caster cups for grands will jack the instrument up a lot higher.

Piattinos are effective for verticals and for grands. They concept is thought through very cleverly, and they have a few other neat features as well.

Jurgen what was the testing here, because I'm skeptical about the decoupling claims. What material can hold 400 lbs and do much else under that kind of pressure?

Plus, the sound of a piano coming from the soundboard into the floor below is always going to be more powerful than any vibration down the legs.

With a loudspeaker, where we have a lot of low frequency power in a small surface area, spikes do reduce the vibration from coupling in to the floor, but even a piano floating in the air is going to be loud to the neighbors below. A loudspeaker floating in air throws it's sound across a room, not straight down.

I do like the look, however!

The material is a special type of PUR. If you want to hear how much sound is moving around your piano case, looking for a bridge to be transmitted into the floor below, simply press your ear against a piano leg while someone plays. While no claims are made that Piattino completely isolates one room from the space below, it is the best product on the market.

Incidently, most of my calls for Piattino come from New York City, where serious players have a Steinway M, L or A in their appartment. At a loss for where to turn, they call Steinway, who refer them to me. I feel fairly comfortable with that kind of a recommendation.

I'm one of those NYC players with an M and I'm considering purchasing these things. I've considerably reduced the volume of my piano and don't have any problems with the neighbors, but if this will help a bit more I'd feel better psychologically.

I have to think about this one...Thanks for the info.

Hi Jurgen, I have a question....since these Piattino casters de-couple the piano from the floor, is there any disadvantage in doing that as far as having a more full, robust tone from the piano? I ask this because I like the look of the casters, but I don't need the de-coupling effect as I have a home, and I was concerned that they might somehow "dull" the full effect of the piano. In my situation, the belly of the piano has the Ampico player mechanism, plus a vinyl cover that covers everything, such as you see in this picture, so the sound is already muted to some degree:



Thanks!

Sounds promising. I'd like to try it myself to be sure. Hopefully someone who has done a careful A/B will post.

Grandpianoman, Piattino doesn't really have an affect on the tone of the piano in the room for home use. The sound radiating from the soundboard is not affected. De-coupling from the floor can, technicaly speaking, make a difference in the piano sound, but I think that could be noticeable only in extreme situations, such as in a concert situation, where the hardwood stage can actually contribute to tone projection. That is one of the reasons that so many pianists prefer proper brass casters under their concert instruments over the trucks or spider dollies, which are essentially leaf springs on large rubber wheels. Apart from the unflattering visuals and de-coupling of these contraptions, there is also the spongy, springy feel of the instrument, which contrasts sharply to the solid grounding that heavy brass caster provide.
see: http://www.pianofortesupply.com/NEW%20PARTS.html

Brian,
Working as I do in the airline maintenance business, I can tell you that a relatively thin layer of a soft rubber like PUR can be very effective with massive objects. In our case, rubber isolation of jet engine vibrations is important - for that matter, rubber isolators are used in most automobile engine installations.

Regarding changing the piano's sound, the leg contact with the floor would be a part of the equation, as would, for instance, carpeting.

Yes ... makes sense. Hi tech rubber.

This is a very interesting post.

I was recently given antique glass castor cups from Germany for my Steinway B...that are supposed to enhance the sound.

Presumably, IMO to insulate the piano from the energy loss to the floor. Is the professional sound word...fade or something like that.?

Whether they enhance or detract...those 100 year old hexagonal solid glass cups sure look nice under the piano,. and they don't interfere height wise with the pedals.

They knew what they were doing when they built those.

Skyblanche

I would love to see a closeup of these skyblanche

RE: I was recently given antique glass castor cups from Germany for my Steinway B...that are supposed to enhance the sound.

What is your perspective on how they enhance the tone? Do you have any recordings with and without? I think that would be interesting to note, if you have the time and inclination to do the experiment.

LL

Hi Lilylady,

I have never been successful at loading a photo AND posting a message at the same time. One or the other programs dumps on me.

So here it is...Part II

The Cups!\

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/skyblanche01/Steinway1004.jpg

skyblanche