Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#29108 - 09/05/01 11:38 PM Is it safe?
Jon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 21
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
I've decided - Estonia 6'3".

Unfortunately, during the few months that I spent shopping around, the dealer here in Toronto sold their last 6'3", and for some reason, has decided against restocking until next year! (I suspect this is due to their extrordinarily small showroom).

The dealer suggested I order one from Estonia, for 25K Cdn.

I've only played on a few Estonias, given the fact that they are so "rare". But the ones I've tried were all...well, simply gorgeous.

Question: Is it safe to buy this particular piano without first trying it? What is the worst that can happen? Thanks!

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#29109 - 09/06/01 12:09 AM Re: Is it safe?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Buy it sight unseen, with a stipulation that you don't have to accept it if it isn't just as nice as the one you saw and played.

Often I think we (those of us who post regularly)go a bit overboard in warning people about buying something they haven't seen. There are times when for whatever the reason a dealer just isn't planning to stock a particular model for a while. The customer wants the security that comes from seeing the piano before he commits, the dealer wants the security that the customer isn't just "trying on shoes" - in other words, the dealer wants to know that if he indeed orders you what you want, that you intend to take it and that you're not just playing games.

You would be surprised just how cavalier some people can be about causing a dealer to waste all kinds of money trying to accomodate the customer's requests, only to have the customer say in the end,"Oh well, I think I'll hold off after all. I might call you on it in a few months." Give the dealer your assurance that you are committed to buying the piano, *if* he can deliver you the piano you want. Have him set it up and prep it for you, then play it. I'll bet you'll find the piano is just fine, and the dealer will be very accomodating once he knows you're serious and willing to make a committment.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

Top
#29110 - 09/06/01 12:30 AM Re: Is it safe?
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13969
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
The 'worst' that can happen is that the piano
needs a 'little voicing'..in addition to the standard 2 minimal tunings any new piano should have...even before delivery!

We did sell a 9' Estonia concert grand to an
out of town customer last July "sight unseen"
This truly very rare transaction was complememted by 2 complete "going overs" by
the pianist's most favourite concert tuner/technician in his particular city.

I recommend you find the best there is....
and have him/her included in the deal!

By the way: you got a fair price! Congrats!!
Norbert Marten
www.heritagepianos.com
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#29111 - 09/06/01 01:50 PM Re: Is it safe?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
Gentlemen,

If one orders a piano from a dealer this way, should the buyer commit a certain amount or percentage of earnest money? I know if I was the dealer, I would not want to tie up money in inventory that may or not be purchased.

Of course, if the piano is as promised by the dealer, the buyer must hold up his end of the bargain. But what should the buyer do if the piano is not as promised?
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

Top
#29112 - 09/06/01 04:25 PM Re: Is it safe?
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
The Estonias I have played have been wonderful. And when the price is taken into account, they are superb values.

Still, I would not buy any piano sight unseen.

Top
#29113 - 09/06/01 06:07 PM Re: Is it safe?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Here's how I do it when someone wants to order a piano that I don't normally stock. For example, a white one. The last thing I want is to get stuck with a white piano. So if you want a white one, you will be buying it sight unseen.

However - if you've played the same piano in my store in another finish and you liked the piano, I am certain that I can get the ordered piano to sound the same way. So all I ask of the customer is to make a committment to buy the piano if I accomplish what I promised. Pay a deposit, sign the sales invoice which I have very clearly written out what I have guaranteed, and where it very clearly states that if the piano arrives and cannot be made to satisfy the customer they can have their deposit back and they are not obligated to take the piano. But if the piano is satisfactory, then the customer agrees to complete the sale. The customer has no risk. The dealer has proof the customer is serious and not just yanking him around (It is a two way street, you know).

If the dealer is legitimate, all he is doing is trying to accomodate the customer and make the sale without hurting himself in the process. You would be surprised how many people are willing to let the dealer invest tons of money trying to help them only to simply walk away, even though the piano was as good or even better than their requirements.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

Top
#29114 - 09/06/01 09:17 PM Re: Is it safe?
Samejame Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 808
Loc: NL, Canada
Jon,

I assume you bought from Aster Music. How were they to deal with generally? I'm in NF, and they are the only Estonia dealer in Eastern Canada, so if I were to consider this brand, I'm curious as to how you found the dealership.

Jamie
_________________________
"A cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing" Oscar Wilde.

Top
#29115 - 09/06/01 09:41 PM Re: Is it safe?
Rich Galassini Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 8975
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
The way Larry suggests buying is fair to you and the dealer and should work out just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to do business in this way.

Or.......just fly to Philly and choose from 6 6'3"s here \:D \:D

Good Luck,
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

Top
#29116 - 09/06/01 09:56 PM Re: Is it safe?
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13969
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
In the case of Estonia we gladly would take orders WITHOUT deposits! As the next shipments appear to be completely sold out ahead of time [directly from factory] I just
don't know where another dealer would be able to find one, "pull one out of the hat"!

Finder's fee for leading me on to a 'new source'! We're out, the moment they come in!
[I'm talking DELIVERIES here...not just TAKING ORDERS!]
Norbert Marten
www.heritagepianos.com

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: Norbert ]
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#29117 - 09/07/01 12:56 AM Re: Is it safe?
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1757
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by kenny:
The Estonias I have played have been wonderful. And when the price is taken into account, they are superb values.

Still, I would not buy any piano sight unseen.[/b]


Nope, neither would I. It's just too complicated. Either a dealer has what I want or he doesn't. If he has what I want, it will be tuned and prepped well enough to give me the best idea of the piano's capabilities and if it's "mine" then I deal. If I want an Estonia 6'3" (which is a great piano by the way) then I look for someone who has one and negotiate whatever terms I can knowing roughly what the current market for one happens to be. I'd never order a piano from someone and chance that I wouldn't like it for whatever reason. There are just too many variables that can get really messy.

There are relationships in this business that are peculiar and different from many others. Automobiles comes closest. But a car is no way like a piano, except that some pianos really can be lemons, even the best makes. It's probably rare, but it does happen. So do you want to wait for months to get a particular dealer to order the piano you want hoping that it's just as good as one he just sold or one you heard or played somewhere else? What happens when it arrives and you're disappointed? No two pianos are exactly alike. You're really getting into something that can make you feel bad about the dealer too for no reason. Nope, I'd never buy a piano sight unseen. And you know what? A few years ago I almost did. Do you know what kind of piano it was? A Yamaha U3. Oh, I'm sure glad I didn't now, but does anyone out there know why this kind of piano is about the only one I'd safely buy sight unseen?
_________________________
David Burton's Blog
http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

Top
#29118 - 09/07/01 03:38 AM Re: Is it safe?
Ivars Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 2
If I make strong decision to buy something what is actually not available at dealers,I look for straight deliveries from manufactorer or whatever I can find.

Also,this is full right of my client to buy piano not from me, but elsewhere. So I can agree both with Jon and his dealer.

I know Estonia's pianos for many years, and can say with full convinience,that the new models of their Grands are really great!

Go ahead, Jon!

Ivars.

Top
#29119 - 09/07/01 08:03 AM Re: Is it safe?
Jon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 21
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Jamie:

Send me an e-mail, and I can give you more info on Aster's.

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
101 registered (36251, AmateurBob, accordeur, Alux, 27 invisible), 1218 Guests and 23 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74236 Members
42 Forums
153568 Topics
2250653 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha Upright - Please help identify
by awyaks
Today at 01:00 AM
song i wrote. people in clubs love it
by jedplays
Yesterday at 10:49 PM
Fazioli "factory tour" video.
by R_B
Yesterday at 10:27 PM
Piano Science
by venice1
Yesterday at 09:59 PM
MP7 vs MP11: only 6 differences?
by Marko in Boston
Yesterday at 09:08 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission