I'm looking to purchase a piano and have been looking at either a Yamaha or Kohler & Campbell. I've been told Yamaha is probably the #1 brand and know of the reputation behind the name. I don't really know anything about Kohler & Campbell. I've been told the company has been around for a little over a hundred years and their warranty is 2 years longer than Yamaha. Can anyone help me? Of the two choices, I'm looking at a 4'11" baby grand in the Yamaha and a 4'9" baby grand in the Kohler & Campbell. In playing both and considering the sound and of course the price, the Kohler is $2,000 less and probably my choice. It's going in my home for me to play and my daughter to use for practice and learing to play. So there will not be a whole lot of heavy use. I'm still undecided, can anyone offer any advice?

There is no comparison in quality. Yamaha is a far higher quality than K&C. But, don't be in a rush - a small grand is probably not a good choice as everyone here will tell you. Buy Larry FIne's Piano Book and educate yourself, and don't be in a hurry. But I would think long and hard before spending good money on a K&C small grand. Seriously!

Also, saying about K&C that "the company" has been around for over 100 years is very misleading. Samick bought the rights to their name about 20 years ago. Unfortunately, their history doesn't change with the name's ownership.

I am very familiar with that 4'11 Yamaha grand. The sound may be slightly metallic, but the touch is very good and for practicing, it is an excellent instrument. I am a piano major and I've played on Steinways and this instrument, so I can compare. Obviously, for the price, the sound is no Steinway sound, but the action and touch are good. The sound is decent, especially considering it is for beginners, who can't differentiate tonal and sound qualities very well yet, but it is slightly metallic. It is durable, and as I said, the touch is fantastic-very even and smooth, something that is very important.

Of course, if you can go bigger, it is best, as the sound improves with string size.

Based on current manufacturing trends, they would both be built in Indonesia - one by Yamaha and one by Samick.

I can't speak for K&C because I have only seen a limited few. The Yamaha 4'11" was changed recently from a GA1E to a GB1E. the main difference between the two is an improved plate design in the GB1 improving tuning stability and tone (I have been told).

As to what I have seen and heard, the GB1 is miles ahead of the GA1. I have had numerous GB1 models roll through my location and have been extremely impressed with every one of them. I couldn't say that for the GA1.

I got a chance to see and play the new GB1. It has the same plate as the A1...not the GA1 or GA1E but the A1 which is a model only sold in Europe, as I was told. It's a nice little piano. Is the whole Indonesia/Japan thing a big deal.

I played one GA1 that had been in a bar/restaurant setting for several years. It was, of course, cosmetically trashed, but had a remarkably good sound for the size of piano.

I've tried both the Yamaha and the KC's at a local dealer in the same showroom.

My advice is to go with the KC but take the $2000 you would have saved and get a larger model of the KC. If possible get the KGC600 (or whatever prefix they're using.

KC's around here retail list for $12000 CDN for the 5'9". That extra foot makes a world of difference in the sound quality. Forget what the dealer says about a 100 year company. It is a Samick. A good samick and there's lots here posted about them. I found the action on the local KC floor models impressive and mated with the sound, an excellent deal. Small grand pianos (under 5') are best described as PSO's and as many will state, you are better off getting a larger upright and saving money.

listen to the advice about spend $30 first and buy the Larry Fine piano book to educate yourself.

As this is your first post, try to Do some searches here on Small Grand pianos to educate yourself on the problem of small grands. If you can get a larger KC for the same price of the 4'11" Yamaha many people would agree you would be farther ahead.

I wouldn't buy such a small grand. Size definitely matters. Get a floor plan sheet from a piano store & try out the larger sizes. You may be surprised what will fit in your home.

I agree with Tritone.

I recently bought the Kohler & Campbell 5'9" KCG600s in ebony high polish.

Although I have heard that Yamaha's are (supposed to be) better quality pianos (other than the gray market ones), I love my new K&C. I didn't like the brighter sound I heard on the Yamaha's I played. The K & C has a more rich, fuller,lower pitched tone, more traditional & pleasing to me.

Even though K & C is made by Samick, one thing that does differentiate it from their Samick branded pianos is that the K & C has a solid spruce soundboard. The Samick grand soundboards are laminated

Whatever you choose, happy shopping!

Try to find a larger grand if at all possible. You'll be amazed at the difference.

Kohler and Campbells do have a "warmer" sound or a "darker" sound than Yamaha pianos. The Yamaha's seem to be very "clear" and "crisp" to me (we all have colorful adjetives for sound).

I think that crisper or brighter sound is very clear. The sound doesn't get mushy in the mid-sections like some of the "darker" sounding pianos do.

Touch, however is very important. Yamaha's action is very consistant. So the touch is very even. Rarely do you find a Yamaha with problems like sticky keys etc. Some of the Korean pianos are very nice, some aren't. They seem to be very so different from piano to piano, even with in the same model.

You also may want to try some other pianos. Kawai has a compareable piano to the GB1. It is a model GM10.

Enjoy yourself and take your time. Good luck.

IF possible go for a bigger grand! Yes, Yamaha is a great piano in a bigger size. It also depends on how and what the piano is used for. I play for at least two hours a day and teach for at least 4 hours four days a week on my piano, it is a Kawai, I love the action and the sound, but I have had the Yamahas and they do have a great action. Follow your heart, you can always upgrade to a bigger piano as your playing improves to the point where you require larger spectrum of sound and color. GOOD LUCK

I haven't come across a properly setup K&C yet, but I know it's very hard to do this work on any Samick grand that I've worked on before. So comparing the touch of a Yamaha GB1 and K&C I'd say the Yamaha is miles ahead, esp when it's set up properly.

I'd also give design and build quality to the Yamaha over a K&C. I've never been impressed with Samick grands.

Same goes for which one is more technician friendly. I know from experience that ordering parts from Samick can be a lottery, whereas I've never had a problem ordering Yamaha parts, other than slightly longer shipping times. I find Yamaha's a lot easier to work on, particularly voicing, against any Samick piano, upright or grand.

I've often passed over jobs when I've found out it's a Samick grand. I'm not so against their uprights mind you, I just can't stand their grands.

I should point out that although I'm not a Yamaha dealer, I do a lot of work for one, so I see a lot of Yamahas. Yamaha also use me for concert and corporate work sometimes. I am giving my unbiased opinion here, but it's something you should probably be aware of when considering my advice.

That's my 2c for the pianos you've mentioned.

Greg

How about the best of both worlds?

Personally, I'd take the big K&C over the sub-5' Yammie, but would prefer the small Yamaha over the small K&C.

But if you desire build quality, with a slightly more mellow sound, consider Kawai. The money should not be that much different.

Also if you can squeeze your budget a little the GC1 5'3 grand is great little piano. Its about 3K-ish more than the GB1, but, you are getting the duplex scale that the GB1 doesn't have four more inches of string length and soundboard.

Now the whole Indonesia vs. Japanese thing doesn't bother me, however the GC1 is an all Japanese made Yamaha.

Kawai has a 5'1 (GE20) and a 5'5 (GE30) which have a duplex scale design and are all Japanese as far as I know.

**The GCI has four more inches or string length and soundboard material.

Sorry for the horrible grammer

Enlitened, are you in the piano industry. Your posts indicate that you have played multiple examples of the same model of pianos and that you are quite familiar with specs.

If you are in the industry, Piano Forum "ground rules" ask that you show your affiliations.

Good idea - Jolly. I liked the RX1 or 2 way better than Yamaha or K&C when I was shopping. I do know of people whose techs have told them "Sorry, there's nothing more I can do to help this K&C." No offense to any K&C owners. I own a 70's K&C spinet which is now in my classroom. Just right for 3rd graders to play around on!

I'm sure there are techs that have made similar comments to piano owners with just about every other piano as well. .. (including Yamaha & even Estonia although maybe not a Bosie LOL)

There are always bad apples in every bunch.
Kohler & Campbell does *not* have a bad reputation overall. They don't have the reputation of Yamaha & Kawai but then again, they are at a different price point & are not as trendy either.

Angel, I don't remember if you mentioned your budget or not. When I was shopping I was quoted $14,200 for an RX2 in black. A lot of piano for the money. The Kawai RX series have very nice, easy-to-play, dependable actions. You should check them out. They appealed to me most of the Asian pianos. I just was a gonner once I played Estonia.

I'm a big fan of the RX series, but I don't think this poster is prepared to stretch quite that far. I know that Kawai makes a 5 footer as a promo model, that would be comparing apples to apples, as far as the Yamaha goes. To my ears, however, the Kawai seems to be a bit mellower, with a "bigger" bass.