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#295428 - 03/10/03 10:29 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
pianoseed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 884
Loc: here
Larry, Thanks for the info! \:\)
_________________________
pianoseed

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#295429 - 03/10/03 11:17 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by topdog:
To Larry:

Don't know you, and I don't care to get to know you. I believe you are sick and I hope you heal. I hope you hit the lottery so maybe your financial woes won't weigh so heavily on your mind and make you so cantankerous. [/b]
Bwa..........

 Quote:

For the record, I have worked on pianos and can do a variety of jobs as a tech. and refinisher. I also sell a great deal of pianos and know the difference between good ones and bad ones. I also have many technicians, rebuilders, teachers and tuners as friends. I value all their opinions on what they have to say about the many different types of pianos in the market place.
[/b]
ha....

 Quote:

I also believe a teachers opinion is incredibly valuable in the choosing of a piano. Teachers generally have incredibly strong sense of quality, especially when it comes to touch and tone.[/b]
stifle....psnt.....choke....psnt........(hold it Larry......he's only on his 8th post.......).....psnt.......

 Quote:

I have gone back and read many of your posts and find you offensive to this forum and you should be sanctioned. Please go away.[/b]
Oh hell......

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Whee.....you're a real hoot! Can you do any other impressions?

By the way.... my *second* clue that you're an idiot was when, after telling you that I no longer have to work for a living, you thought I was talking about my financial woes! What a hoot! Can you do tricks too?

Oh well..... there goes the old reputation, huh topdog? I guess I need to be "sanctioned"..... will you be sending in inspectors? I guess you need to know ahead of time before those inspectors come in though.... you've just brought a butter knife to a gunfight. You're new here, so I'll clue you in:

I'm the one on the group who takes people with their heads up their butts and pulls it out so we can all see how badly shriveled it is. In the process, a few people get a good laugh. So take your best shot "topdog", you old "piano tech" you! I've been good for too long, and I'm feeling a little squirrely..... just remember....I am.....

ALPHA DOGGIE!!!!!!

\:D \:D
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#295430 - 03/10/03 11:32 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
KawaiDon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 1206
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by lb:
Jimbo

Here is a little test to show the difference between sand cast and V-pro.

This will work 90% of the time and when it doesnít it is usually because the floor is not level.

Take any vertical piano that is setting on a hard surface or very short nap carpeting. Bend over and try to swivel the right front caster with you hand. In almost all cases the piano with a V-pro plate you will be able to swivel it by hand, and in almost all cases the piano with sand cast plates the caster will be solid.

The tension of stringing the piano will cause the pianos with V-pro plates to twist, a sandcast will remain straight. This also occurs with grands but because there are only 3 legs you canít tell.

In factory tests, a V-pro vertical placed on a hard perfectly level surface, the amount of twisting changes with ambient temperature and humidity. This affects tuning stability and long term life of the instrument to some degree.

I am sure most manufacturers are aware of this phenomenon, but V-pro is more economical.

Everyone can try this test themselves.

lb[/b]
I would encourage everyone to try this test, because it is absolute nonsense. The results would have much more to do with the design of the piano and the plate, and nothing to do with the casting method.

Don Mannino RPT
_________________________
Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America

Top
#295431 - 03/10/03 11:38 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
Dear Topdog,

Larry is opinionated. Larry is passionate. Larry knows a heckuva lot about pianos.

Larry has over 1800 posts, going back to the beginning of this board!

While nobody in this herd of cats agrees all of the time, the idea that Larry should be censored just because you don't like him borders on the idiotic.

If you want to dispute what he says, trot out your piano knowledge and acumen, and tell him where he's wrong.

Would make for some interesting reading, to say the least.

p.s. If you really want to see Mr. Fletcher unleashed, and in his native state, check out the old DejaNet archives on rmmp. He's just a teddy bear nowadays! \:D
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#295432 - 03/10/03 11:45 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:

p.s. If you really want to see Mr. Fletcher unleashed, and in his native state, check out the old DejaNet archives on rmmp. He's just a teddy bear nowadays! \:D [/b]
Oops..... too late Jolly..... after my last post, I'm afraid I have already slipped back into old habits.....

Time to change the paper in my cage...... \:D \:D

"in his native state"[/b]

Uh..... no pun intended?...... \:D \:D

YEEEEEEEEEYEEEEEEEEYEEEEEYEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
\:D \:D
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#295433 - 03/11/03 12:31 AM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
lb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 1731
Loc: Indiana

Top
#295434 - 03/11/03 12:43 AM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
I can say this - just about every Samick, Kawai, Yamaha, and Young Chang console I've ever seen had one thing in common......

a rattling right leg caster. They rattled because they didn't touch the floor. Nothing you do will make them touch the floor. I just assumed they made the right leg shorter than the other to tick people off...... \:D

I have also noticed that many of the braced leg verticals built by these companies share a common trait after they get some years on them...

A rocking case.

I just always figured it was those "high tension" scales....... \:D
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#295435 - 03/11/03 12:58 AM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Rick Clark Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 1810
Loc: North County San Diego CA
This has become rather interesting. I have noticed the right front caster thing too. Never thought much about it because you never know how level a floor is.

Don and lb are both credible sources in my book who are I'm sure expressing their true beliefs on the subject. I hope it doesn't turn into a flame war, but it would be interesting to get to the truth of the matter.

Still, I'd much rather see a twisted V-Pro plate Asian piano than a cast iron plate Aeolian (or similar quality) spinet...

Regards,

Rick Clark
_________________________
Rick Clark

Piano tuner-technician

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#295436 - 03/12/03 10:48 AM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
KawaiDon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 1206
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by lb:
KawaiDon

So you are saying that V-Pro plates has nothing to do with this condition,and that the manufacturers using V-Pro design their pianos to twist.

Since this occurs across all brands that use V-Pro, the only consistent factor is V-Pro.

lb[/b]
This is where you have made an incorrect assumption. I have found that upright piano backs twist regardless of how the plates are cast.

All upright pianos twist and flex some when being rolled around. They also all twist some from the scale tension, but it is up to the piano designer to decide how much back twist is acceptable. Japanese designers are known for relatively light-weight designs in their pianos - it is a cultural thing, having to do with efficiency of design and material use. The Koreans, to a large degree, have copied these design features. So what I believe 'lb' and Larry have observed is that upright piano designs from certain companies (who also happen to use V-pro castings a lot) tend to twist. The depth of the plate design and the thickness of the back structure are the main determining factors, and the casting method has no affect on the amount of twist a piano will have.

Grand pianos do not usually twist noticeably because of the depth of the rim structure.

Larry wrote:

"I can say this - just about every Samick, Kawai, Yamaha, and Young Chang console I've ever seen had one thing in common......
a rattling right leg caster."

But what Larry doesn't know is that many Kawai upright pianos are not V-pro!

What is happening here is that the green sand proponents in this forum have decided that the twisted case issue is caused by the V-pro process, and when they see a non-V-pro plate piano with a raised front caster they say, hmmm, this one must be an exception. For instance, I have noticed that many Charles Walters consoles I have tuned (including the one I used to own) had a raised front caster. V-pro?

Here's another interesting example: in some situations the Kawai UST-8 piano will show some flex, but the Kawai UST-7 will almost never show it. Both are the exact same scale design and have green sand cast plates, but the UST-7 has a really heavy, beefy back structure and cabinet. The UST-7 was designed for schools and churches where it will be moved around a lot without having the tuning change. The UST-8 was designed for institutional locations where they are not moved as much.

I encourage everyone to test this for themselves. If you find a piano on a flat floor with a raised front caster, check the brochures to see if the piano is V-pro or not.

Don Mannino RPT
_________________________
Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America

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#295437 - 03/12/03 11:24 AM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
lb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 1731
Loc: Indiana

Top
#295438 - 03/12/03 02:00 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
iyi bir piano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 664
Loc: USA
posted by larry
 Quote:
I'm the one on the group who takes people with their heads up their butts and pulls it out so we can all see how badly shriveled it is. In the process, a few people get a good laugh. So take your best shot "topdog", you old "piano tech" you! I've been good for too long, and I'm feeling a little squirrely..... just remember....I am.....[/b]
You obvioulsy reach too far up because you got your head up every ones butt. You finally admit you pull peoples heads out of butts as your hobby, do you lick them clean? This will explain your nasty dispositon.

Top
#295439 - 03/12/03 08:23 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Oh come *on*, Iyiyiyiyiyiyi..... (sorry, I'm an Indian - get me started on *that* syllable and I tend to... well, you know.....

Iyi, you can do better than that! Show some creativity! Show some originality! You lack structure in your delivery - neaten it up a little! Put some of your *soul* in it, man!

Now come on - one more time - and this time, with feeling......... \:D :p :rolleyes:
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#295440 - 03/12/03 08:35 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
KawaiDon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 1206
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by lb:
KawaiDon

Thanks for clearing that up. I found it hard to believe that someone would intentionally design a piano to twist and warp, and set on three legs, but if you say so I believe you.

lb[/b]
Actually what I think I said / meant to say / tried to send via telepathy was that all upright pianos twist. It's just a matter of degree. :rolleyes:

Don Mannino RPT
_________________________
Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America

Top
#295441 - 03/12/03 11:13 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
david smith Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/02
Posts: 201
Loc: Palo alto
As I was trolling I happened upon this post. \:D

kawaidon is correct, Larry and ib...listen to him, you might find tht you can still learn a thing or two. \:D

Larry is still up to his bashing of posters. topdog..ignore him. He will draw you in with insults, that is his style. I think he is an a__hole.( In fact he actually states that he likes to put his hands up others butts and pull out schriveled things).

I think he is writing a book, "I was a piano salesman when I had a brain" and I think he has several names on this forum and he is picking the brains of everyone else in order to compile his story. check his posts you will see that many times he will write a book in order to express his ideas and insult others just to draw people into an inane argument. :rolleyes:

Larry's book will certainly be a succedaneum for satisfying the nympholepsy of the nullifidians. :p

Top
#295442 - 03/12/03 11:29 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by david smith:
As I was trolling I happened upon this post.[/b]
A little Freudian slip there, Davey?


kawaidon is correct, Larry and ib...listen to him, you might find tht you can still learn a thing or two. [/b]

No. I'd rather be ignorant and stubborn like you.

I think he is writing a book, "I was a piano salesman when I had a brain" and I think he has several names on this forum and he is picking the brains of everyone else in order to compile his story---------Larry's book will certainly be a succedaneum for satisfying the nympholepsy of the nullifidians. :p [/b]

You caught me!! I give up! I'm all these people, Davey! There's only you and me!

Actually Davey, it is a Martian conspiracy. They are hiding in the walls, Davey. They watch you as you sleep.

They want to shave you.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#295443 - 03/15/03 07:29 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
topdog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 245
Loc: San Jose
Boy oh boy! :rolleyes:

I don't know who is worse, Larry or David Smith or Iyi . \:\(

Guys...get a life! :p

This is the piano formum, not the Iraq / Israel opinion poll.

It is a good thing Larry is not near the button!
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PIANO BROKER

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#295444 - 03/15/03 08:59 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Rick Clark Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 1810
Loc: North County San Diego CA
Larry,

I just caught the "Davey" reference. Thanks for helping Joy and Me generate some endorphins....

Regards,

Rick Clark
_________________________
Rick Clark

Piano tuner-technician

Top
#295445 - 03/15/03 10:52 PM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
Davey?

Oui! Oui! \:D
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#295446 - 03/16/03 11:17 AM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by topdog:
Boy oh boy! :rolleyes:
I don't know who is worse, Larry or David Smith or Iyi . \:\(
Guys...get a life! :p
This is the piano formum, not the Iraq / Israel opinion poll.
It is a good thing Larry is not near the button! [/b]
Iyiyiyiyiyiyiyi..... (*darn* that Injun stutter.....) Iyi is worse. No....Davey is worse.... I on the other hand, am...

ALPHA DOGGIE!

I do have a life. One apect of it is entertaining the troops. I take dumb statements that get made and add punch lines. I'm writing material for a book, didn't Davey tell you? And he's gathering information for a radio show. And I *am* near a button......

but I'm not telling what it's for!......

Iyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyi-HAAAAAA!!

(You have just been subjected to more inside jokes, puns, and double meanings, and hidden messages in one post than you have ever read in your life. Please print this post and refer to it throughout the rest of your time on the internet. Caution - only the truly seasoned veteran of the piano boards will be able to solve this puzzle......)(read it backwards for a hidden message...... )

\:D
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#295447 - 03/16/03 11:49 AM Re: Hallet Davis pianos
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
OK,I counted 8.

Is that good, or bad? \:D
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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