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#298876 - 09/23/07 03:17 PM Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Confucian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 33
Loc: NJ
I bought a 2002/ 2003 Steinway K52 for $17,290.00. Ebony finish, lightly used, in overall very good condition.

Good deal, bad deal, fair deal?
_________________________
Confucian

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#298877 - 09/23/07 03:34 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17670
Loc: Victoria, BC
I would say that since this is now a "done deal" there is little point in worrying about whether it was good or bad. What difference would it make if someone tells this was not a good deal? Someone else will undoubtedly tell you that it was a fair deal. If the piano pleases you, at this point that is all that should matter.

Regards,
_________________________
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- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#298878 - 09/23/07 03:38 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Confucian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 33
Loc: NJ
That's what you call "post-purchase" evaluation. Silly as it may appear, we all do that. Do you ever thought whether you got a good after buying a car?
_________________________
Confucian

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#298879 - 09/23/07 03:55 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
Confucian:
"post-purchase" evaluation
...we all do that.

Not everyone, perhaps only those who purchased in haste instead of researching/reflecting beforehand. If your Steinway turns out (from what people say here) to have been a bad deal, what will you do about it? Go back to the shop and slash the salesperson's tyres[1]? As Bruce says, if you like the piano, just enjoy playing it and consider what you spent on it to have been a good deal. In any case, you can't play music on numbers in a bank account. Congratulations on your (new-to-you) piano.

-Michael B.
[1] The tyres on his/her car, obviously. Though I've seen a few piano salesmen that carry 'spare tyres' as well ;\) .
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#298880 - 09/23/07 06:36 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
The S&S K52 is probably the ultimate vertical piano in the world. When prepped out it is remarkable. MSRP is $26400. A good deal on a new one would be about $22k. Your price is a fair deal with piano in good condition.
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Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#298881 - 09/23/07 07:04 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
SCCDoug Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 663
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
The S&S K52 is probably the ultimate vertical piano in the world.
I beg to differ. No piano holds the floor down better than our 1914 M&R. It self adjusts to just the perfect honky-tonk sound in a matter of days if any tuner dares to mess with it. And don't get me started on the action - I mean it, I can't get started on the action.

Take that Steinway!
_________________________
Doug

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#298882 - 09/23/07 07:15 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
 Quote:
Originally posted by Craigen:
The S&S K52 is probably the ultimate vertical piano in the world. [/b]
I disagree.
I like this vertical piano better.


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#298883 - 09/23/07 10:00 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Confucian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 33
Loc: NJ
You have to agree with Kenny.
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Confucian

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#298884 - 09/23/07 10:12 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4974
Loc: boston north
 Quote:
Originally posted by Craigen:
The S&S K52 is probably the ultimate vertical piano in the world. When prepped out it is remarkable. MSRP is $26400. A good deal on a new one would be about $22k. Your price is a fair deal with piano in good condition. [/b]
Not wanting to take away from the excitement of your new purchase Confucian, but I will need to add this for the archives...

To many, the Steinway K52 is not the ultimate vertical.

Another nice one? Yes. One to be proud of? Yes.

But there were many more 'ultimates' that had my favor.

Confucian...Enjoy your piano and play the heck out of it and be happy! LL

Edit...I wish that Craigon had not made me post this to ruin your fun, but I couldn't let that statement stand. S S is just one among many nice verticals.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#298885 - 09/23/07 11:03 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
Confucious says:

"Things that are done, it is needless to speak about; things that have had their course, it is needless to remonstrate about; things that are past, it is needless to blame."

You own a great piano, congratulations, subjectively some may prefer others that are great as well. It will become a great deal when it inspires you to become the pianist you want to be.

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#298886 - 09/24/07 12:37 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Toddler2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 760
Loc: Hillsborough, NC
+1 to the lilylady. But then, at some point, it all becomes subjective, and if you love your piano, the maybe it is the best vertical ever. . .

Congratulations and enjoy it!

Todd
_________________________
M&H AA (2006)

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#298887 - 09/24/07 01:17 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
grands increase in price expontentially as their quality increases.

i don't find the price of high quality uprights outrageous..

(you should have heard my 1914 K 52.. it was incredible.. so clear and pure, so strong.

the action was almost 90 years old - it needed new dampers and hammers for a start, but it was intrinsically incredible.
_________________________
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love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#298888 - 09/24/07 01:42 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
RickG Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 947
Loc: Texas
Enjoy and don't worry about the price you paid. You should also take Lillylady seriously as she played A LOT of high end uprights in her search. Steinway is NOT the only game in town.
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RickG

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#298889 - 09/24/07 01:52 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
The ultimate vertical?

Bechstein is quite nice. The Fandrich action mated with the right piano would certainly be interesting. The Petrof 131 may just be the sleeper among the elites.

But...the best vertical I've ever been around was an old K52.

I wouldn't worry about the money, it's a done deal. Enjoy the piano.

Before I go, I will let you in on a secret...Want to know who makes the best piano in the world? Go look at the name on the fallboard of the piano in your house, the one you own, the one you can make music on whenever you choose.

There are times, many times, when it's the best piano in the world...
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#298890 - 09/24/07 02:13 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
 Quote:
Bechstein is quite nice. The Fandrich action mated with the right piano would certainly be interesting. The Petrof 131 may just be the sleeper among the elites.
jolly took the words right out of my mouth. exactly.

my first choice in a vertical would be a bechstein. and for value, you can't beat the petrof. and what darrell fandrich forgot about piano building, most of us never knew.

but it is a dangerous game to ask what we think of your purchase after it is a done deal. this is a pretty opinionated place.

enjoy your new piano. none of us are playing it--you are! \:\)
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#298891 - 09/24/07 02:16 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
oh, and btw, just for the sake of anybody else in the market for a k52--the old vintage k52s are very different pianos than the new, modern k52s, and i'm speaking strictly from the perspective of how they sound and play. i have no idea if the design has changed or not, though i suspect it has.
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#298892 - 09/24/07 02:17 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
"MSRP is $26400. A good deal on a new one would be about $22k"

---and, yet, you will never get this price in my store. How did you arrive at this being a good deal, Craigen? You know and I know that MSRP is not as a reliable figure as some would like it to be. One only needs to read Larry Fine's response to Steve Cohen's post to understand this.
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#298893 - 09/24/07 03:24 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
My impression is this is a "bad" deal, but
for reasons that don't have to do with
cost. This sounds like you're making
the the error of trying to improve
your playing by buying a more expensive
piano. This would be understandable,
given your tubulent history with respect
to the piano: you start on an Essex, after
many yrs. away from playing, and immediately
run into problems. Therefore, you
ditch the Essex, thinking that the
more expensive brand will help, but
you can't improve playing by buying
a more expensive piano. I suspect the
former owner sold it for this very
reason, it didn't improve his playing.

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#298894 - 09/24/07 03:32 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 20766
Loc: Oakland
Except that he never said he bought it to improve his playing. It could be his (or her) first piano, for all we know.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#298895 - 09/24/07 04:23 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Toddler2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 760
Loc: Hillsborough, NC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
"MSRP is $26400. A good deal on a new one would be about $22k"

---and, yet, you will never get this price in my store. How did you arrive at this being a good deal, Craigen? You know and I know that MSRP is not as a reliable figure as some would like it to be. One only needs to read Larry Fine's response to Steve Cohen's post to understand this. [/b]
PianoMadam,

My friends said they bought theirs new for $21,800 (plus tax) just over a year ago. I don't know if prices have gone up since last summer.

It was/is an ok piano. Not spectacular sounding to me, and not as nice (IMO) as the Charles Walter I thought they should go look at. To be fair, when tried it, it still needed a lot of work, and Ruggero's preps their pianos beautifully.

Still, the one who plays piano was happy because it was a Steinway. She wanted a Steinway, they walked in, figured they were offered a good price, and bought it. Hopefully it's a better piano today than in was when new! Either way, it seems 22k should be close to a fair price.

I know Steinway says they don't discount, but my friends got a discount, and I was offered 15% off "retail" prices. I was living in Vermont and shopping in New England. They were here in NC. Maybe fixed overhead is much lower than where you are.
Todd
_________________________
M&H AA (2006)

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#298896 - 09/24/07 08:17 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
M&B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 262
Loc: California
Definitely a BAD deal. 17K on a used Steinway Upright ! There are many more refined choices in that price range and perhaps a grand piano as well.


Don't ever walk around with a sign that says "Kick me in the rear" you'll be surprise of how many people you made happy.
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Piano Dealer
Representing Kawai, Mason&Hamlin.

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#298897 - 09/24/07 09:07 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Toddler2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 760
Loc: Hillsborough, NC
I disagree M&B.

It's only a bad deal if there was another piano Confucian would have preferred for the same amount or less. For all we know, it's an amazing deal because he (sorry, I'm assuming male gender)got his perfect piano for several thousand less than a new one, and didn't have to spend a lot of time driving around and shopping.

Todd
_________________________
M&H AA (2006)

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#298898 - 09/26/07 03:12 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Confucian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 33
Loc: NJ
Todd,

You are right that I am a guy. And you are right that I saved myself quite a bit of search cost (driving around shopping).

Confucian
_________________________
Confucian

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#298899 - 09/26/07 01:01 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 2851
Loc: New Jersey
I really like the K-52. I hope it brings you many years of enjoyment.

As for the price, that sounds about right for northern NJ/suburban NYC. Maybe a little high but as mentioned you did not spend a year driving around kicking tires.

If you find something else you like better and you want to sell it please conact me.

Regards,
Steve
_________________________
"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon

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#298900 - 09/27/07 01:11 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Confucian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 33
Loc: NJ
Stevester,

I'll keep you in mind if I sell it -- but I suspect it won't be for a few years.

Thanks
_________________________
Confucian

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#298901 - 09/28/07 03:46 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
As I remember in about 1982 S&S wanted to bring back the venerated K52, made from 1914-1929. They searched the factory and could not locate any blue prints for this model (S&S is usually very careful with important documents). An employee at the factory said he owned an old K52. They hauled it in and took it apart and reverse engineered the new K52 from this instrument.
The new K52 does incorporate modern advancements as accellerated action, hexgrip pin block, and diaphragmatic soundboard, the earlier instruments did not have.
I have heard new K52's fully preped beside restored old K52's and found the tone very close.
Pianomadam,
I do not sell new Steinways or anyother piano for that fact. Traditionally K52's are slow turners for dealers. A 16.7% discount didn't seem out of the question. There are S&S dealers that do go below the talked about 10% from time to time.
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#298902 - 09/30/07 02:26 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Confucian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 33
Loc: NJ
Interesting story.
_________________________
Confucian

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#298903 - 09/30/07 02:35 AM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
"There are S&S dealers that do go below the talked about 10% from time to time"

---I can only speak for my store, but we simply do not sell Steinways at the discounted rates you and others are speaking of. Like it or not, there is simply a different philosophy at Steinway. I've found that most who do fork out the money for a Steinway are not as concerned about the price as they are about the quality of the instrument.
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#298904 - 09/30/07 03:23 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 2851
Loc: New Jersey
spin
_________________________
"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon

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#298905 - 09/30/07 03:53 PM Re: Steinway K52: good deal or bad deal
Toddler2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 760
Loc: Hillsborough, NC
Well duh . . . ;\)

In another thread she said her customers don't even care if the pianos are prepped.

The philosophy is to maximize profits. If you can do that by charging FFR, then that's what you should do.
_________________________
M&H AA (2006)

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