I don't know enough about piano's to have much of an opinion. I've heard that Kranich piano's (generally) speaking are not good, also old square grands. Also have heard that there are many PSO's (piano shaped objects) out there.

I cannot think of anything much worse than the promotional Whitney console piano manufactured by Wurlizer. It was of the poorest quality construction, could not be tuned accurately, and sounded dreadful.

Marantz has to be a contender.

The problem is there are so *many*.

There were so many different names used by Aeolian and put on their Memphis-built spinets, many of them once-proud American companies.

There were some really bad Chinese piano brands at one time, with auto-failing pinblocks. Early Koreans imports were about as bad. And don't get me started on what has come out of Macau into the U.S. (yes, Macau.) Very American-sounding names, though.

There was the infamous Belarus.

There are the various names on pianos out of the Kaman catalogue. Or a dealer could have his own name put on them, or any name of his choosing. (many low-end makers offered that option and still do today.)

There was the infamous "Grand" spinet.

And so many other spinets that would never in their lives play like a decent piano ought to- leaving the factory with such sloppy workmanship and parts of bad quality that the best advise to the owner is to just get rid of it because it really can't be fixed up.

There were those plasticy thingies coming out of, was it, Ireland? Lindner, Lindeman, something like that.

I even remember a German-sounding grandthat came out of Brazil- the soundboard literally broke- fell apart. And not from climate, just from being crappy wood or some severe design flaw.

Gosh a little memory jogging would probably produce at least 10 more widely sold examples of true trash-barrel JUNK pianos that I have personal experience with. Worldwide it's probably many times that number of brands deserving "trash" designation. I'll let some other people have "fun" remembering.

There is a lesson in here though. These pianos were all designed to meet consumer demand for LOW PRICE. To a huge segment of the consumer population, the virtue of decent looks and low price are driving the demand for this type of piano. So don't be a sucka and think you've somehow gotten a 'better value' because you found a cheap piano. That's a fool's game. Be smart and do your homework.

Regards,

Rick Clark

ANY[/b] piano being sold at an antique store.

We recently serviced a Steinway which was one of the *worst* pianos ever.

The owner claimed he was told [by the original salesman in his native country....] that by buying "the best" it wouldn't require him to tune it.

Ever.

Not even once in 26 years.

Well, it sure wasn't the *worst* afterwards......

Norbert

Whitney pianos were not built by Wurlitzer, they were built by Kimball. I also disagree with your assessment of the quality of construction. It was built pretty much the same way most all US built verticals of the day were built. The console model wasn't all that bad, considering its price point. The spinet was awful, but so were all the other spinets being built by other manufacturers.

I've seen many Kimball Whitney consoles that were 25+ years old that were serving their owners just fine.

Of modern pianos, I would have to agree that Whitney pianos, from a musical standpoint, are among the worst pianos I have ever tried to tune. But they ARE fairly solidly built for what they are...

And Lindner pianos....plastic everything! I don't really know HOW bad they were, because I've never seen one that worked.

But they pale in comparitive putridity to birdcage pianos--overdamper pianos--made mostly in England before 1900. They were cheaply made, and had NO metal plate. And the dampers didn't work so well, either. Impossible to tune because of the, er, flexibility of the frame, they get my choice as worst pianos ever.

So, if you happen into an antique store and see a beautiful upright with "inlay" and candleholders on the front panel, do not be tempted. Don't even take one if a "friend" offers it to you and says, "it just needs tuning." I'm here to tell you that square grands, Whitneys, Grands, Marantzes, and Curriers are absolute gems in comparison. Well, they might be better than a Lindner, but I've never seen a functioning Lindner.

Dave Stahl

Yes Rick I and my sons have do our homework.
So I have a Fazioli F-183 and each of my sons have a different grand now.One have a Bosendorfer,one have a Bechstein and one have a Steiway, All grands.
But!!! for my grandson I have buy a Perzina from China and that's realy a good piano!I have visit the Perzina companie and saw the German builders made this piano's.
After what I have see, I think in the future there are more Chinese piano sellers.Because not everyone can buy expensive piano's.Sorry for my English but are you'r Dutch or France or Italian better?

Best Regards

(posted on another thread but very appropriate here)

pianoplayer61.. I have really tried to accept you are who you say you are and take you seriously, but with each and every post you pump up these Perzinas as a great piano.

You say you own Bosies, Bechsteins and Faziolis, and I think maybe a Steinway you gave away to a son if memory serves - some of the world's finest and most expensive instruments. You give your son a Steinway, but for your beloved grandson you bought a Chinese upright.

Too much for me. I know you have denied this, but on a gut level I believe you must be in the industry related to Perzina somehow. Your broken English seems to me contrived. At times your writing is exceptionally clear and well structured, fine spelling, then you get back into the almost comedic misspellings. Read aloud it sounds like you picked up the English from a bad sitcom's idea of a Hispanic maid.

I sincerely hope I am wrong, but my instincts tell me I am not.

PS: Why do you hide your email? People can send you email but not know whom they are sending it to?

I thought I read once that no less than Mr. Fine himself pronounced that Kincaid was "arguably one of the worst pianos ever made". I was a "proud" owner of a Kincaid and, yes, that is how I chose my moniker. I do not play the piano (violin for me) but my wife and daughter have in the past. A recent move was the impetus behind selling the Kincaid and I am now searching for a higher quality upright for the twins to begin lessons.

THERE ARE SEVERAL CONTENDERS
1. THE (HORRIBLE) HORUGAL (SAMICK)MID 1970'S
2. THE ORIGINAL PEARL RIVER MID 1980'S
3 AEOLIAN VERTICALS MADE IN MEMPHIS 1970'S
4 ANY PIANO MADE BY KINCAID (GRAND PIANO CO) ANY YEAR
5 ANY BIRDCAGE
6 ANY SQUARE
6. ANY PIANO MADE IN THE FORMER SOVIET UNION

Larry,

I have a Whitney/Kimball upright in my house to this day. It has been taken care of and has survived five moves. It holds a tune brilliantly, even though it's 35 years old. It was the piano my parents bought for me to start lessons on when I was a kid. I didn't ever think I would own a "real" piano, and to be honest, I was pretty happy to have the little piano I had. It still gets a lot of use, even with a new grand in the house. My kids have to practice when I'm teaching. The techs who have worked on it over the years have always been amazed at how well it held pitch and tune. I have to have that, it can't just be in tune with itself, it has to be up to pitch because we're singers. That piano sure has been a good one for me.

And the winner is......... Jesse French!

I believe this pso to be the product of a secret society intent on the destruction of the piano as we know it.

Plastic damper levers and elbows anyone?

I can't believe I (and others here) have forgotten the lovely Brambach grands- those little ones from maybe the '20s and '30s.

Now everyone groan together in recognition! anna ONE, anna TWO, anna.......

Regards,

Rick Clark

Pianos made by Marantz with the name Grand Piano- poor construction, bad bridge notching, bad bridge pinning, use of wood scraps for pedal rods, lousy scaling;

Hastings- used green wood in pin blocks- squeaky case parts; loose pin blocks

Sangler & Sohne or Spangler & Sohne- broken hammer butt chords- terrible stringing

True story. I had sold a Pearl River upright in the mid-1980s in Ebony Satin. I went on the delivery with the delivery guys. It was misting outside and the piano got slightly damp. When the delivery guys set the piano in place and stepped away both of their shirts were stained black from the cheap satin finish. Needless to say, the new owners were not impressed. I never sold one of them again.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Norbert:
[QB] We recently serviced a Steinway which was one of the *worst* pianos ever.

[/The owner claimed he was told [by the original salesman in his native country....] that by buying "the best" it wouldn't require him to tune it.

Ever.

Not once in 26 years.]
How low in pitch was this piano and what country did it come from......was it even tunable at all?

mozarts piano, probably sounded awful.

but when i was looking once for a tennis racket, i was told a real pro can beat u with a broom.

i imagine the same is true for pianos, yes we all love perfect tone, but a pianist can play and write on a toy and make wonders...

I tend to agree with your that the skill of the pianist usually outweighs the "quality" of the piano in making music. A few of us forumites went to an "old piano museum" or sort and got to play restored old pianos from the days of Mozart and Beethoven et al -- and you're correct, the "pianos" from those eras are quite limited in their ranges of expression compared to modern pianos.

Bachophile,

There is an interesting anecdote which Kenny Werner tells in Effortless Mastery about how Bill Evans was at a muscians house party which had a notoriously bright piano (make not specified but definitely implied). A few other great professional pianists were there and the piano was giving everyone migraines. Then Bill Evans sat down and made it sound warm and sweet. He had the touch, and sensitivity to reel in the instrument.

There are greats and then there are GREATS.

Steinwegge:

Taiwan.

Oh, there's one more:

"Connover Cable".

At least the ones with plastic whippens,jacks and flanges.

All crumbling like powder after some 30 odd years.

[But still not making good cake..... ]

Norbert

How bout adding Sojin to this sorry list? The product of a large Korean Conglomerate who thought they could build anything.

you forgot weinstein and sons

Winter and Company.

Was Connover Cable the Irish company that made even the keys out of plastic? I shared a house in Toronto for a while in the mid-Seventies with a guy who had one of those disasters. The action, such as it was, seemed to be holding together. But the keys' breaking one after another doomed the poor thing.

We took a Belarus on trade years ago and my tech left a note on the piano that "Any inference that this is a musical instrument is criminal "

I’m thinking the old “Conover” (as in Frank Conover) pianos were pretty well built and nice pianos; I owned an early 1900’s Conover upright that I was impressed with.

If my memory regarding my previous research is correct, the Cable piano company bought out Conover and produced the “Conover-Cable". And, the old “Cable” pianos, though not top of the line, were decent.

Most any brand that has not been cared for or serviced regularly can be a bad piano. Many lesser known brands that are well prepped by a competent tech can be decent instruments.

Based on my limited experiences regarding acoustic pianos so far, (the last 6 or 7 years… a drop in the bucket, I know) I think it is prudent to stick with the better known, well established, brand names. I have a Yamaha, a Baldwin and a Kawai in my home. I like them all.

Rick

Both these Pianos are some of the best to go for, I recommend anyone planning to purchase, to go get it!

********************************** - Selling 20k
********************************** - Selling 14k

***Edited by moderator... direct advertising.
You can advertise your pianos here on PW in the "Pianos for sale" section, not on the open forums.***

But they pale in comparitive putridity to birdcage pianos
COMPARITIVE PUTRIDITY!!! There's a great statement. Can I use these words again? Love them! Thanks velopresto. I would guess this statement has never been voiced in such eloquence, Kudos!