Is the Kohler & Campbell line of pianos a higher quality line then the Samick line or a lower line? I know Samick makes them but is there a difference between the 2?
I am looking to buy a 5 ft or 5'4" grand. My mind was made on getting the SIG 50 then a very reputable dealer close to home was offering the KC line but not the Samick line.
Any advice will be much appreciated. Thanks.

Peter

My Kohler & Campbel rep. who works for SMC (Samick Music Company) told me that the K&C is a better piano. It has higher quality level materials and superior design.

I'm not very familiar with the Samick line as no one in our market sells them so I can't say anything about the specifics of those pianos.

The Kohler is built on a low tension scale, all Maple action parts, solid spruce soundboard, duplex scaling, sand cast plate amongst other high end features. We have been selling them for nearly 15 years and are very happy with the quality of the piano for the price they are sold for.

The KIG-54 is a great value but if you can swing it get the KCG-600 that piano is truly wonderful for under 10k.

I'm really not biased, as both products come from Samick. I also must admit, I have never played a Samick piano. Perhaps a Samick dealer could provide some specifics about these pianos.

Thanks for your reply. Great information.
Anyone else with hands on experience with both pianos? Thanks.

Hi,

Samick and Kohler & Campbell are both ranked at the same level by Larry Fine in the latest Supplement. This is group 4C, which is one sub-group away from the very bottom. Not too great for a company that has been making pianos for 50 years.

Read the commentary on group 4C in The Piano Book Supplement and I think you will get the general idea.

It is my understanding that the KIG54 and the SIG 54 are the same scale design and same action. The Samick brand product will likely have its "surface tension soundboard" (three layers of spruce). The Kohler will likely have a solid board (one layer of spruce). Some salesmen make a big deal of this difference. Frankly the multi layer board is more durable. The sound is good on both.

Thanks to both Marty and Nick. I went to the store to try out the Kohler & Campbell but I wasn't too crazy about the way it felt. It felt too sensative for some reason. The Samick and Young Chang didn't have that sensative bouncy feel. If I am going with a KC, I am leaning towards the Millenium Series and the PG series in YC. Any thoughts on those Series? Thanks.

Did you play a Millinium series piano that you liked? if so which one?

Ill suggest to you what I suggest to all my clients.. Buy the very best piano you can! I know its easy for me to say, but if you like a Millinium series Kohler or any other higher end piano (compared to what you are currently looking at) and end up purchasing it, I promise, you wont regret it..

The KCM 600 5'9 really comes into it's own, imo.

Good luck!

I played the KMC 500. Even that piano is REALLY stretching it price wise. But after reading the reviews,I am seriously leaning toward it. BTW, is the Millennium Series made in Korea or Indonesia?

Forgive me as we do not carry Millennium series pianos regularly only because its costs become to close to Essex pianos.

I know they were made in Korea. I am not sure if they are currently made there or if they moved it over to indonesia.

For whatever its worth, both factories have been building pianos for a long time and we have seen no defects coming out of either.

Outspoken as I always am... ... I have come to believe that while all these pianos might be quite good, the dissemination and layering of different or 'differently labelled' products by one single maker is a dead end street.

When once was a Young Chang dealer, I didn't know myself in the end anymore how to identify and meantingfully explain to my customers the real or presumed differences between "Bergman" "Gold line", "Signature line" "Pramberger line" and so on.

Sure, pianos can 'look' different and have one or two features more or less - but what's the point?

Is a Volkswagen with 2 doors instead of 4 to be called a completely different car?

Perhap others are better than me, but I hate confusion and confuscation of things.

Also note that Larry Fine has not upgraded any of these type makes in recent years and there is strong evidence that the future [if there is one... ] belongs today to less confusing lines with more consistent and predictable levels of quality.

Personally I have always had a distaste for oriental makers leaning onto older established Western names,names often established for a very long time.

For this reason I am very happy that Mr. Chen from Hailun is not calling his pianos "Norbert" "Kuchenmueller", "Henkel", "Knorr" or "Maggie"

I hope my frankness shall be forgiven by this kind audience.
[a born in German fault line... ]

Norbert

Appreciate your frankness but I am not sure that I found your reply helpful at all or follow your logic. If everyone stuck to old and established names then there would be no progess or innovation in the industry.
I can bet that a Young Change piano from the 70's is not the same piano today.
Just the same way the Japanese cars weren't taken too seriously in the 70's and Korean cars made fun of in the 80's & 90's....but now the big 3 are begging the government for money to stay alive while Toyota, Honda and Hyundai are thriving. Hmmm
I don't really find it confusing that a brand offers 2 different lines; a economy line and a more defined, higher quaity line. Thanks.

Then there is no harm [at least it's not 4-6 lines...] but it doesn't make it any easier to give you advice.

First of all a dealer carrying the line would be the best one to do so and secondly when I *was* a dealer in a similiar case, it was even too confusing for me.

Bergmann, at that time, was the cheapest of Young Chang's line but IMHO happened to be the 'best sounding' of all.

And it seemed I was not alone in this:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/2993.html

Perhaps just choose what makes sense to you - it's all one can really recommend in such case!

Good luck!

Norbert

2002!??!?!??!?!

How long did it take you to find that? And my gosh.. What a memory to even remember the thread, Norbert.

Hey, I keep some things that even blow me away...

By the way you, as a dealer for the make, gave a much better answer:

Not implying any confusion here....

Larry Fine however, seems less confused:

To be concluded:

Norbert

Oh boy, now I am confused. I guess it boils down to what I perceive as good value.
Amazing how the opinions differ so vastly.
I guess what it really boils down to is, are there differnces in quality from a Korean made piano and pianos made from Indonesia or China.

Apologies to Norbert...I mis-read your post above. I thought you were against oriental makers in general and that people should stick with old western mfg when all you meant was the fact they use western names to cover up their origin. Sorry.
Wish there were Hailun and Brodmann dealers here in Toronto.

pixels,

Heard that Piano and Keyboard Centre in Richmond Hill is the new Hailun dealer in Toronto.

pixels,

Try the Hailun.
I played a Hailun 5'3" before that I find better in touch and tone and price compared to a comparably sized Japanese entry model.
They may come into your budget but I do not know. MusicBud said it's a new dealer, perhaps any good discounts and promotions going on?

Larry Fine's book is a nice place for folks to educate themselves and become informed piano shoppers. However, it is important to remember that it is one mans OPINION. This should not be held as the end-all, be-all to everything regarding the quality or "tier" of a piano.

I find some issues with the book trying to turn a very subjective and personal process, such as selecting a piano, into a seemingly straight out, cut and dry objective decision.

Play the different pianos, get a good feel for the dealerships that sell the pianos. Ask around to friends, teachers, musicians and places like PW for other opinions and or referrals.
And buy the piano that speaks to YOU.

Good luck and have faith in your own decision making abilities.

I was a Young Chang dealerat the same time and had NO PROBLEM in distinguishing the differences between the lines. In fact, YC sent out detailed spec sheets to all dealers clearly denoting the difference. (I still have copies if anyone wants one, but the info is outdated.)

Also, you falsely imply that the differences were not substantial when, in fact they were. And you knew that[/b] !

You didn't seem confused about YC offerings when you carried them nor when we met at their booth at NAMM.

I no longer carry YC, but I don't run them down either.

Bad form.

I think what is trying to be discussed here is that when one company makes several different brands, models, or 'series', the differences can be over-hyped, usually by the dealers themselves.

Jonathan, at the beginning of this thread you stated:

"My Kohler & Campbel rep. who works for SMC (Samick Music Company) told me that the K&C is a better piano. It has higher quality level materials and superior design."

You should know better than that! I replied to your post by stating the gist of what The Piano Book says regarding these two names, which are from the same manufacturer, because this is not the same as an 'opinion' regarding two brands from different companies.

There is a very good reason why one company might make 2 different brands of roughly equal quality. It is to sell more pianos!

Samick and Kohler & Campbell are even repped by the same person. Once I had a customer who contacted Samick directly because I had offered a Samick grand while the Kohler & Campbell dealer was making it out to be inferior. To get to the bottom of the hype, the customer was put in contact with the rep (who sells both brands to their respective dealers) and was told the truth. So of course the customer bought the Samick, which in the small grands often compares more favorably to the K&C because of slightly larger and better scale designs for about the same money, although I had offered it at an even lower price.

Larry Fine's book is great because it helps people cut through the dealer hype which is a common practice.

Or, you can just go to a dealer who is honest, straightforward, and fair to other brands.

Thank you MusicBud!!
I will be sure to check them out.

Nick,

Apparently the "piano book" knows more about Samick pianos than Samick themselves . The information relayed to me came directly form Samick.

..and It honestly makes no difference to me. You trying to argue over this is a waste of time.

What Samick knows about pianos is how to market them. Sure, the 2 brands can be seen as different, but not materially so. And naturally, the rep has to tell the K&C dealer how to sell their product, and the Samick dealer how to sell theirs.

As I stated in my previous post, when a customer of mine confronted SMC about the conflicting claims a dealer made regarding their very own producs, the BS was put to rest.

Jonathan, you also stated 'I'm not very familiar with the Samick line'.

But Larry Fine is.

Im moving on to another thread, sorry yours was hijacked Pixels..

Good luck with your piano search and please keep us up to date!

pixels,

Please update on your findings (and opinion) on the Hailun. My friend (a university student) is on a limited budget and I want to check out the Hailun for him. However, I live in Mississauga so can only go to the store during weekend.

A few weeks back when I called them, the salesperson told me that they are going to have 2 models of uprights and one 5'10" available at the end of this month.

Good luck !

You mean they don't have any models on the floor now?? I will call them tomorrow but I probably can't make it over till the weekend myself. But I will post my findings asap. Thanks.

I was told by Piano & Keyboard Centre that they don't carry the Hailun Line.

Don't worry, just confirmed with the saleslady, yes, they are going to have it. The 3 Hailuns are now in the North York's warehouse, they need a truck to pick them up this Friday, hopefully. They will prep them and probably be ready next week. They don't want to announce yet since they don't have the pianos in the store

Hey MusicBud,
Keep us posted. I found a dealer in London, Ont who also sells Hailun. I really don't want to make the trip if Piano & Keyboard Centre will have them. Which Hailun model are you interested in? I am looking at the 5' grand. Thanks.

Peter

pixels, sent you a pm.