I started to play piano last December and I am planning to purchase Steinway Model B if it is worth the price in comparison with Model A or Model L.

I would be most grateful if Steinway piano player could give me some advice.

Thank you.

The two biggest advantages of the B IMO are size, (B=6'10.5" A=6'2" L=5'10.5") and the one piece bridge construction similar to the concert D.

The B is a significabtly superior instrument in my view to its smaller stablemates. If budegt is a constraint, I would rather have a good used B than a new one of either of the others.

I would also look carefully a Steingreaber 205 and whatever the equivalent size is in Grotrian. The Steingeaber is quite comparable (I prefer it to the B in all respects except looks), Grotrian less so. Both are a great deal cheaper than a new B in Europe. I have no idea if these price differentials are similar in Japan.

Kind regards

Adrian

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your quick reply.

Unlike Austin, housing situation in Tokyo does not allow me to purchase Model D for two reasons:

1. Big sound of the Model D
2. Limited space availability.

Although, I often play Model D at the rental studio and I love the sound.

Model D is $150,000 in Tokyo at the current exchange rate.

I am anxious to find out what is the
the going price in L.A.

I believe the B is the smallest Steinway worth looking at if you are in the market for a true musical instrument and not just a status symbol for your living room.
If the former, insist they spend that last week or two setting up, voicing and regulating the B in the showroom - to your satisfaction - BEFORE you consider buying it.

When they will tell you, "We do that in the home." reply, "It will remain unsold and in this showroom until it is finished."

They will feign offense and shock.
They will pontificate and whine arrogantly.
Then you will walk out, with your checkbook.
Next they will call you back, realizing you are actually expecting a musical instrument.

BTW, a better American piano is the Mason and Hamlin.

The Steinway B is a fabulous instrument when it has been detailed to perfection. They don't come that way from the factory. They require at least two full days of high level preparation. This is true of most high end grands. Most professionals believe the B is worth the price differential over the A or L. If you have got the budget and the space, go for it.
Street price for a NY STY B ebony satin is about $60k USD in the US.

If you are not completely happy with the detailed B, take a look at the Mason & Hamlin model BB. It is a darker and woodier sound, thundering bass, and a Euro feel with the Renner action. Street price for a Mason BB is about $50k USD.

Just to reinforce the previous two posts, for my money (if I had it), a really good B is hard to beat--but what it takes to assure that's what you're getting could be intense and time consuming, i.e., really hard. If you find you truly LIKE the M&H sound and feel just as much, then that's almost a no brainer if a top-flight B is just not to be.

What they said about a well-prepared B and if you go for a used or rebuilt NY B, IMO, Renner action is fine but insist on original S&S hammers for their richness.

But there are so many to try before making such a big purchase. In no particular order:

- Bösendorfer 214
- Mason & Hamlin BB
- Grotrian 208
- Schimmel 213
- Bechstein 208
- Blüthner 4 (210)
- Steingraeber 205
- Yamaha S6 (211)
- Fazioli 212
- Estonia 190 (There is a gap between 190 and 274. Is a 208 or 225 perhaps in the works? I bet it would sound gorgeous)
- and more that I'm sure others will mention...

Mason and Hamlins don't come with Renner actions any more.

BeyondHanon,

One model which chopin952 omitted to mention, and which is very much worthy of consideration is the Sauter Omega. While it is a slightly longer piano than the B, it is also a much more modern design with a better string scale (the B breaks at E20/F21 while the Omega breaks at G23/G#24 - the past thirty years has seen quite some design progress with some makers). The tone will be a lot more even across the bass treble break and it will hold tune better with changes in temperature and humidity, due the lower deviation on the percentage of breaking strain across the compass of the instrument.

Ron O.

Dear Beyondhanon,

Lots of good advice already - just a thought. A customer who purchased a Steinway from me and had it delivered to Tokyo recently said that even with shipping and related duties he saved alot of money.

Of course, he was already in the USA on business so it was convenient for him, but my point is that a weak dollar can be very good for you if you are considering a purchase like this.

Also, he preferred buying a rebuilt Steinway over a new one.

My 2 cents,

Being a Mason Dealer, I feel the Mason is a much better value and of course some would say the sound and touch is better too...

Street price for Mason BB in ebony is certainly less than $50 even in NYC which has somewhat higher prices than many other parts of the country.

Quick question: are the Steinways sold in Japan from NY or from Hamburg? This might matter. Some of the advice given seems to be based on the presumption that Steinways sold in Japan come from NY.

Right PianoDad - I'm suspecting that the Steinways in Japan would be Hamburg Steinways.

Try out the models and listen critically. Get the dealer to prep. 2-3 pianos that you're most interested in, then decide. And don't rush, even though you may feel pressured to decide before you're comfortable.

As noted already, the B uses plain wire down to E20. The A's plain stops at B(27, if I'm adding right). I can't get into all the technical aspects, but to my ears, the B's bass is less robust than the A, which I have. (I still try out Steinways just for fun.)

Bigger is not always better. Use your ears to decide. Also note that the L was discontinued, so in that size range, you'd be looking at an O. The dealer might have an unsold L around, though.

Many thanks for your responses to my question.

To my surprise, however, I have not seen any Steinway B users in these comments.

Steinway NY is not sold in Japan to answer some of the questions.

I do not intend to buy from US dealer in order to import NY Steinway due to the maintenance issues.

I am going to play Steinway Model D No.314503 this afternoon in Tokyo.

Isn't this wonderful?

I have owned a new NY Steinway B and a recently rebuilt NY Steinway B that was modeled after the Hamburg Steinway.

I think they're wonderful pianos - but they are not pianos that one can just order sight unseen. You really need to play several - rebuilt and new to find the one that speaks to you. Generally, most of PW is more favorably inclined toward the Hamburg - but it is a matter of preference.

They only sell the Hamburg Steinways in Japan, correct?

Norbert

"Is a Model B worth the price?"

Sometimes yes, sometimes no depending on the piano and price. One of the best pianos I ever played was a newish B but I've played more dogs in this line the great ones.

BeyondHanon -- I own a B (1.5 years old) and have found it to be a wonderful instrument. The keys are longer in a B than an L,O or A. This gives you more control -- I found especially in the lower register. The B is closest to a D which has even longer keys I believe.

The B also has a more resonant bass and thus provides a much more playing experience. Many consider the B the best piano Steinway makes. I owned a Steinway heirloom A before and while it was a wonderful instrument, it was no match to my B.

Some not so disinterested party likes the Mason. I tried playing a BB and had to stop -- the action was so rough and had so much resistance that I literally couldn't play it. And, yes it was in one of the "best" stores in NYC and they are a Mason dealer.

Of course the key is finding the right B for you and then getting the prep work mentioned above.

Happy Hunting

Grane

Incidentally was in Tokyo on my honeymoon in June. Loved the City and the people there were great!

BeyondHanon, welcome to PW! Now we can "talk" in both your langauge and mine!

I am not in the market for a new piano (unfortunately) our current house can only hold an upright (and just barely at that.) But I'm curious about the market for grand pianos in Japan. Obviously Kawai and Yamaha are easy to find, and Steinway is very popular. But what about some of the European pianos that have been mentioned in this thread? Have you seen other piano brands at piano dealerships in Tokyo?

I saw someone playing a Bösendorfer on Mezamashi-TV last week and I was very surprised, because I've almost never seen a piano on TV here in Japan that wasn't a Steinway/Yamaha/Kawai.

If you have the space and can stretch for it, I'd definitely go for the B. The bass is substantially fuller and the feel of the longer keys and greater control is wonderful. I've played some terrific B's and would love to own one. These can be exquisite pianos.

Sophia

I wouldnt play a D if you can only get a B. Not that I would not recommend a B but a D is about 2 foot longer and a B just can't match it. Likewise a B will far outperform the A,O and L. The A and O are serious pianos if thats the fit for you. Many serious pianists do just fine with them. There are lots of six footers on the market that would serve you well besides Steinway.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LJC:
[QB] I wouldnt play a D if you can only get a B. Not that I would not recommend a B but a D is about 2 foot longer and a B just can't match it.

I know exactly what you are talking about.

Is there any specific reason for you to choose Steinway D Hamburg instedad of NY steinway?

I played Horowitz's piano yesterday in Tokyo.

The sound was wonderful. I personally prefer NY Steinway Model D to Hamburg Steinway Model D.

Interesting. I have yet to play a Hamburg of any length and would be interested in hearing the differences versus NY. Anyone know the closest shop nearest NC? I love the tone on my NY B, but if I were ever to upgrade to a 9' I would be obliged to find a Hamburg D to try out (among other brands, of course )

Can someone state their opinions on their differences or similarities? Is it just the touted quality control of Hamburg vs. NY? or are there major differences in tone?

BeyondHanon, I'm confused.

Your original question asked about comparing a "B" to an "A" and an "L", but most of your responses suggest that it is the "D" you are interested in.

Also, most of us in the the U.S. often forget that there is also a model "C". Since Japan imports mainly Hamburg Steinways, you should consider the "C" as well.

I think the "C" has a nicer sound around the bass/tenor break than does the "B".

Guys,
I am afraid you are trying to answer BeyondHano without knowing how much S&S B costs in Japan.
Accoring to S&S Japan's price list dated Frb 2004, Modes A and B cost jpy8,200,000(equiv. usd71,300) and jpy9,600,000(equiv. usd83,500) respectively.
Not only Hanburg models, but also NY models are available in Japan. NY model is 3% less than Hamburg.
The most famous S&S dealerships in Japan carry only Hamburg ones, and most Japanese are believing only Hamburg is available by lack of information.

Beyond Hannon- Sorry I missed your question until now. I got the Hamburg instead of a NY D because I liked it better than all the NY D's available at the time except for one and that one was already sold. So it wasnt an issue. The difference in the 2 is that generally a NY D has a more complex sound. My tech says the NY D is nastier. I like the Ny D very much but some of them have too complex a sound for me, something I'm sure that can be softened with voicing. I'm not going to do a lot of voicing on my D for a while because it has been slowly picking up more overtones and thus beginning to sound a little bit more like a NY D and I like that. Just pick the one you like and dont worry whether its Hamburg or NY.

I bought a B recently. I played an A, several B's, and an L, all from New York. (I skipped the D because I knew I didn't have the room or the budget for it.) There was no question in my mind that the low end in the B's sounded dramatically more full and rich than the L or A. I ended up picking one particular B that just seemed to sing to me.

I couldn't be happier with it. So, in my mind anyway, the B was definately worth the money. Good luck!