Hello again everyone,

I am researching so hard recently to purchase a good grand piano, (after all, piano is a very big purchase) and I would like to know what would be the price range for new Steingraeber & Sohne pianos.

I never heard of this maker's name before, but I took a simple internet test for piano sound preference yesterday, and the test results show that I like Steingraeber over Bosendorfer and Steinway. So I am quite curious.


Also, I am also seeing a lot of listings of Steinway pianos in ebay, and I was wondering if it is a good idea to buy an antique Steinway instead and restore it. (The restoration can wait long after the purchase, right?)

The unrestored Steinways are in a range of my budget, and I would also like to say they are quite beautiful.

So... is an antique/vintage Steinway a good choice?

And about Pleyel... Chopin did use a Pleyel piano, and I don't know if Pleyel pianos are obsolete in today's concert standards, but please listen to this Pleyel piano in Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rnRwqkwKtU

I think I would be very satisfied if a restored Pleyel would sound just like this.

(It is my favorite prelude)

As you can see, I just need a lot of help. Thank you so much for reading this message from me.


P.S. Why is this "Decker Bros" piano so popular in ebay right now? I don't even think its legs and pedals are original...

Rebuilt antique pianos do not play or sound like 20th century pianos. However they can be nice. And they are very hard for dealers to sell so that they can be bought for very reasonable prices. When we were shopping for a new piano Our Adventure to a New Grand w/ pictures we looked at a number of antique pianos. We considered the same pianos as you are looking at including Playel and Steingraeber. By the way the least expensive Steingraeber is a little over $50,000 A very nice new Playel can be gotten for a lot less, maybe $35,000. Do searches for each of these pianos here on PW. If you want to use a lot of time and effort you can find these unusual pianos used or even new for bargain prices because so few people will buy such pianos. (Even the NYC piano stores will take years to sell such unusual pianos.) I currently know where a 1908 Bluthner in 6' 2" and in nice condition can be bought for $2,000 in the Dallas area. However it has a antique action which parts can not be gotten for. A rebuild would cost at least $15,000 and then you would not have a modern Bluthner but only a nice piano which looks beautiful.

A new 6'9" Steingraeber is list price $109,000. After a reasonable discount from a dealer, I would expect to pay about $75,000 - perhaps a bit more or less.

Too bad about the strong Euro/weak dollar!

Steingraebers are among the most expensive 2 or 3 brands.
They are up with Fazioli and Bosendorfer.

New, they are much more expensive than Steinways.
Also they only make a few hundred a year.
Steinway makes around 5000 or so.

Steingraebers are hard to find in the USA.
I attended the Piano Technician Guild's annual convention last month and the Steingraeber there was superb!
I am certainly not an advanced pianist but I was amazed how quietly I could play this piano.

I keep restarting the piece at a softer and softer volume and couldn't believe my ears, or fingers.
Even at whisper-soft volume I had a range of control over the dynamics that astonished me.

You have nice taste.

Kenny

FYI I believe they make only about 90 grands per year! Yes - hard to find indeed.

Thanks FW.

Oh my...

I didn't know Steingraebers are so expensive! Ugh, I feel a pain...

I guess I have to list Steingraeber as the piano of dreams.


Jordang, can I ask what is the current condition of that Bluthner's action? Is it playable?

Thank you so much, everyone.

Actually, they make closer to 50 grands per year. Udo Steingraeber has told me that they cannot make more than 75 grands per year with their present approach.

You might enjoy this CD, which is recorded on Liszt’s 1873 Steingraeber, sounds pretty impressive for such an old piano. It is interesting to me to hear some of the old pianos we hear and read about - I would love to have heard Liszt play it.

Sonatas & Metamorphoses, Thomas Hitzlberger, Steingraeber 'Liszt' piano
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=166418

Bill

Internet test for piano sound preference?

Where?

There are a myriad of sites where subject to Internet sound quality, virtually all pianos can be 'sampled'. Eric Himy has in fact generously placed for download quite significant Steingraeber (Phoenix modified) downloads. Their scale, innovations and sound are really superb.

You do not mention Grotrian-Steinweg. Here too considerable gratis downloads are available. They are worth listening to if you want to get a general idea of the sonorities et al of the make.

I note you are not enthusiatic at all about Bösendorfer. I have no pecuniary interest whatsoever in suggesting this, but for excellect recordings on a **non** Imperial, Naxos' has released several recordings by Knardahl of Grieg's lyric pieces and others played on a '275'. Similarly on a non-Imperial, Rübsam is available on Naxos too playing the familiar French and English Suites of Bach. (How I wish I *did* have a pecuniary interest in NAXOS - but alas I have none...)

You may also wish to chase up various threads here headed to the best of my recall 'Recording on a non-Steinway' or similar.

If I may suggest what I feel - rightly or wrongly - is the quickest way to locate such recordings, is to do a search (Name of Piano) + (artist).

Finally re restored Steinways, you probably know you will be met with a barrage of restorers - many espousing different methods they have used - especially regarding the soundboard. The Steinway "Heritage" restored at the factory ones Steinway of course promotes. Best suggestion I can give for objective advice - look at the Piano Technicians (PTG) listserve. You will find heaps on Steinways' anantomy of all sorts - restored, about to be restored, and restored/rebuilt.

Wishing you an enjoyable search - need not say as I am sure what you know anyhow - DO NOT RUSH THINGS!!!

All the best from a wintery Victoria!

ILH

How about a few internet sites where all pianos can be sampled?

The Bluthner in the Dallas area is quite playable. I talked to a teck who tuned it and examined it. The problem is that I talked to a person who is a specialist in rebuilding old Bluthners. He told me that there are no action parts available for such old Bluthners. This piano does not have Aloquate strings either. To be a very nice piano again it would need a updationg rebuild. Only specialists should put new soundboards and actions in Bluthners. So I did not go and see it and play it.

I was told that it had been refinished a few years ago.

Jordang:
If the Dallas Blüthner has the "Patent Action" then some action parts actually can be found new. In fact, forum member, Jurgen (who runs www.pianofortesupply.com), sells them.

My own 1926 Blüthner (Patent Action no aliquot) has new hammers (along with new felt, pins, strings, etc.).

A Blüthner Patent Action is definitely a different beast compared to a Erard double-escapement action and is regulated differently. Also, working on the back-action (damper action) is different on a vintage Blüthner. It is harder to find techs who are true experts. [I'd actually love to talk to the tech you spoke with Jordang - I'm always looking for knowledgeable techs].

By the way, I recently played a Steingraeber and it was magnificent--the nicest piano I have played after the rosewood Bosendorfer 225 I played in the same store.

I recently played on a Steingraeber 7', without knowing much about it. Immediately I knew it must be one of the best pianos around. Everything about the mechanism of the piano are most finely regulated; down to the finest details. And the most enthralling feeling, is the tone I could get from that piano! I am a convert!!

One can only hope that with the appreciation of the dollar recently that a Steingraeber will become in a bit cheaper. I have had the same experience as "asiantraveller101" and now everything else I play sounds inferior. Ah! Steingraeber! What my dreams are made of....!

James

I don't have the refined ears that others in this thread have, but if I could buy just one leg of the Steingraeber below, I would do it to replace one leg of my piano

Actually, according to Udo Steingraeber, the company made 67 grand pianos in 2007, and about 70 grand pianos in 2008.

A trip to the factory is definitely recommended...the passion and commitment of the people who make these pianos is very evident during the visit.

That's a Fabbrini that Andras Schiff is playing in your YouTube link. Fabbrini rebuilds pianos such as Hamburg Steinways. In this case it is a rebuilt Pleyel that is modernized.

One of the good things about Andras Schiff is that he experiments with different makes of pianos, sometimes alternating instruments in the same concert in order to match the composer with the piano. I notice also he has unorthodox hand positioning, using flatter fingers than most pianists are trained to do. He may be doing this to generate certain tones, which would certainly be consistent with his tonal experimentation in his choice of instruments.

If you do a search on YouTube for "Steigraeber Xmas" you'll find a Christmas concert performed by a rather talented music professor which I recorded. In spite of YouTube's then somewhat low audio resolution, the greatness of that piano manages to shine through. That was a 6-foot piano. I've also got some more recent recordings of my wife playing a 7-footer in the Ragtime, Blues, Boogie, and Pop genres but I haven't had a chance to upload them all yet... hopefully in the next few weeks. So far, 2 of the pop tunes are already on YouTube in their new experimental high resolution formats... search for "Steingraeber live".

Howard

I just finished watching those 2 pop tunes in high resolution and both the singing and the piano playing was amazing! Thanks for the link.

Rich

I love my Steingraeber. It is a dream come true. The sound that i can get from this piano,never ceases to amaze me! I am so blessed to be able to play on such a wonderful piano. The pop tunes in high resoulution are wonderful.



Terry

OK, I guess I have to join the Steingraeber love fest even though it may be piling on. They are truly fantastic sounding pianos that are a joy to play. Limited production of 60 or 70 a year undoubtedly increases quality control, but I wish there were more of them in the market for more people to enjoy.

And yet another old thread, back from the dead.

Wait! I forgot to mention that Shigerus are better than Steingraebers! Did I miss the party?!?!

Newguyonforum, Good to see you have a sense of humor. lol

Horowitzian,It's a good thing you bought a Steinway before the new Steinicks come out. lol! Hope all is well with you.

Ah. If the they only started making Shigerugraeber&Sohne then we'd all be happy...

lol!
I bet you can't say Shigerugraeber&Sohne five times real fast. Ha ha!

You can watch at 0:19 he does the mysthical depressed key vibrato move which should have no effect on sound.