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I found a PG157 which the dealer was offering $10k for. (PG157 is Young Chang's 5'2 grand, of the Pramberger signature series)

So far, it's the cheapest piano I've found which sounds that good. Most of the other pianos I was looking at were Yamahas in $15k range.

Is $10k a good deal for this? I am a bit wary because the piano store I'm looking at is in a big department store, and the saleswoman even told me that their prices are high because they have to pay a portion to the parent store. I haven't seen that model (PG157) in other stores yet but I'm thinking if I look around, would it be reasonable to find a PG157 selling for a couple of thousand less?

Thanks
-Mr.

Mister,
Clink on the "Pianos For Sale" link below. It will take you to another screen where you can type in "Young" and "grand". You will see other Young Chang Pianos for sale by people on this site for an example of what you should be paying for a PG157. Happy Hunting!!!

Thanks for the tip!

Hmm, I have also been concerned lately that this piano might lose its sound after a few years, not have enough dynamic range, or just generally be of poorer construction than pianos like Yamaha, Kawai etc.

One dealer is trying to convince me that it's worth it to pay $15k for a Yamaha instead of $10k for a Young Chang, because of all those other factors... Am I making a mistake with the Young Chang?

Thanks
-Mr.

Hi Mr.,

In my meager opinion, you can do much better for $10,000. I already have a nice grand piano and am not looking for another one, but I do have a habit of browsing the piano ads on Craigslist and other advertising outlets just for fun; from what I see lately of pre-owned grand pianos, you can do much better than $10,000 for the YC, (even if it is a Pramberger series).

I’ve seen 20 year old Yamaha and Kawai 6’ grands for around that price or less. Of course it’s easy for me to say that when you are the one searching for a good deal on a grand piano.

FWIW, I was given a price of $8,000 on a new Chinese made 6’ Bergmann grand (by YC) a couple of years ago. If you like the 5’2” YC Pramberger, offer the dealer $8,000 and see what they say. (You might just be surprised ).

Good luck with your search.

Rickster

Hi mister,

What do you think a Yamaha dealer is going to say?...

The new Young Changs play very well in my opinion. their new lines have been redesigned by Joseph Pramberger (a Steinway designer), and are compared in the piano industry report from January 2008 to the Japanese brands made in Japan. so, apples to apples, make sure you are comparing the pianos not just by brand, but also by country of origin. some Yamahas and Kawais are made in Indonesia (not recommended for our climate) and in China. yet the Young Chang cost a whole lot less.
Also, if you can afford a little bit more, I was quite taken by the Young Chang handcrafted YP series. a superior musical instrument in every aspects, and I found them priced quite reasonably.


Happy shopping and happy holidays,

Interesting .....
All of you posts have been promoting Young Chang ...

Many of the Young Chang threads are older threads resurrected by you. Hmmmm

Dear bear,

I found a lot of disinformation on this site and I felt the need to educate folks with my recent experiences, especially after playing the Young Chang handcrafted series. such amazing quality for the price!

I checked your postings as well. seems like you are heavily promoting Kawai and lines made by Kawai, like the Boston.
Maybe not so "retired" after all....

Best wishes,

Hi Mr. and welcome,

The $10K is a good price for the PG 157, which has a "list price" of $16,805 in the Larry Fine price guide. Basically, it's being sold for about a 40% discount. You won't find it for much less, and certainly not for $8K unless it's a one-time-only distress sale.

As for the issue of whether it will hold its tone and stand up against a Kawai or Yamaha, IMO the answer is that it will. I recently purchased an Albert Weber 48 upright, which is the top of the line from Young Chang, so I have, quite literally, put my money where my mouth is.

My main reason for believing in YC's quality, other than what I saw with my eyes and heard with my ears, is that Young Chang's CEO is B.J. Park, who recently retired as the CEO of Hyundai Motors, and is considered directly responsible for Hyundai's dramatic improvement in quality control as an automobile manufacturer the last few years. Hyundai Development Corp., the investment firm that funded the automotive group, also purchased Young Chang in 2006, and asked Mr. Park if he would step in as CEO and focus on improving YC's quality control. Few will doubt that he's up to the task.

I'd also like to make a comment to Bear and David Brant. It seems that David is a young and enthusiatic supporter of Young Chang, who does need to get his facts a bit straight, but, to be honest, Bear, you probably didn't have to question his integrity. On that note, David, you should understand that Mr. Arnaut is one of the most respected members of this forum and is someone who has on many occasions supported the choice of other pianos. He has earned everyone's respect many times over. While I understand that your snide comment about him was because of his comment to you, you're the one who needs to earn our respect on this board, not Bear.

Now on to the facts about Young Chang -- at least as I have been able to ascertain and verify. They are not handcrafted in the sense that most people on this forum understand the term, especially the Professional Artist series, which is the middle of the YC's three lines.

The Platinum series, which is identical to the Albert Weber, is the top of the line and, apparently, is made on a separate assembly line that gets extra attention, which I largely take to mean extra QC, prepping and care, but I still wouldn't consider it handcrafting -- and I own one and would buy it again in a minute.

The Professional Artist series, on the other hand, is made with many of the same materials, but is not handcrafted, and does not get the same level of attention at the factory, which is reflected in its lower price. It is a mass produced piano at a similar level of quality as Kawai and Yamaha mid-level pianos. Most industry pros, however, would likely say that Yamaha and Kawai are still a bit better at initial quality control than Young Chang, although YC seems to have a price advantage and, in my opinion, has really benefitted from the Pramberger relationship and the global sourcing of parts. The bottom line is that all three pianos are worthy competitors in the market.

Joe Pramberger is also long out of the picture as is his team, who went to Samick when the YC-Samick merger was disallowed in 2005. Perhaps a better way to view the Pramberger designed YC pianos is to think of them as one of the new "world" pianos, which are being manufactured in Asia, but were designed in collaboration with European or American designers, and have parts sourced from around the globe. These pianos -- think Brodmann, Hailun, Samick, Perzina, ASC, Essex, Young Chang, etc. -- have become very competitive with Yamaha and Kawai, and represent a real challenge to both companies at the low and mid-levels of the market.

Anyway, I'd like to go back to the OP, Mr., and wish him luck in his search. I hope this post helps.

Dear Caz,

I'm getting a little cliquey feeling here...
I didn't realize I'm expected to earn anyone's approval on this forum...

With all due respect to your knowledge and expertise, and that of your peers, I am on this forum to educate and help people understand the piano world. I am a professional piano player and a piano technician, and I helped many people with piano selection over the years.

Quite frankly I've heard a lot of biased opinions from dealers and teachers, who are in the business of selling and teaching pianos, yet are posing as piano experts. I am on this forum as an unbiased party and you will find that my opinions are based on real facts.

I'm not sure I agree with you in respect to the handcrafted category. It is an interesting subject and a bit of a gray area. Most piano manufacturers today use production parts and yet label their pianos as "handcrafted" due to the fact that the assembly is done by hand. Also the attention given to the instrument by the craftsman creates a difference in tone and playability. another factor is material selection, grade of wood, string quality etc. so where do you draw the line?...

I believe that the quality of a piano, once you determine that the materials selected are of the finest quality, really lies in the level of craftsmanship and design.

As for your remarks regarding Young Chang pianos, the professional artist series is not a handcrafted instrument. It is a production piano that I can definitely compare to the full featured mass produced Japanese pianos like the U and the C series from Yamaha or the RX and the K professional series from Kawai.

As for the YP platinum series from YC. You are right in that it is a cross between asian pianos and european design. yes, Joseph Pramberger is, unfortunately, "out of the picture" permanently (died of lung cancer in 2003), and I'm sure you're aware that Young Chang owns his designs. The Pramberger name on the Samick models is just that, a name. I personally consider the Young Chang platinum series to be a superior instrument over the production Japanese pianos. I personally performed this year on a C7 Yamaha for a Xmas concert and I found the YP208 by YC considerably richer in tone. yes, some parts are production, but the assembly, craftsmanship and attention given to the instrument would place it in the handcrafted category.


best wishes,