First, let me say that I am new to this forum. After spending six hours reading various posts I am AMAZED by the incredibly helpful advice found here. The dedication by the regular contibutors is appreciated.

I am new to the market for pianos. I am looking for my wife who wants to begin playing again and my two young daughters. My wife literally tears when we go out testing pianos just thinking of the prospect of starting to play the piano again. I DON'T want to mess this up. The most succinct way of saying what I'm looking for is buying a the "Honda Accord EX" of pianos for $12 to $18K. I think that's possible, no?

My wife like the sound and feel of the Yamaha and Baldwin baby grands but new they are out of our range. We recently tried a Pramberger that sounded and felt very nice. My local dealer "sold us" on the quality of the Young Cheng/Pramberger relationship. After some research on this site, however, I found that what he is trying to sell me is a Samick manufactured Pramberger.

So, my question to all you wonderful piano "gearheads" (and I mean that sincerely Cha Cha!) out there, is what are the meaningful differences I should know about between a YC and Samick made Pramberger baby grand?

We have not tried a Kuwai, Petrof, or Bohemian yet. Are these brands that would be of high, reliable quality in my price range? I welcome all input as Winters in the midwest are perfect for piano shopping.

(And yes, tonight I purchased Larry Fine's book via this website -- gladly supporting Piano World).

Your range is $12K to $18K? Yamaha is definitely NOT out of your range. Kawai, Bohemia, and Petrof are must plays in this price range. The usual advice by Piano World members is to play as many pianos as possible before making a decision. As for Pramberger, if you can find a YC Pramberger (and a few are still around) they are seriously discounted and considered quite a deal. I have no comment on the new Samick Pramberger. If you can stretch your budget to $20K, there are a few Charles Walter 190s to be had (others will say this is unrealistic, but I bought mine in October for this, and know of another new one for sale at this price). You might be able to get the smaller Estonia for $20K, and I've seen the Schulze-Pollmann 190 for $21K.

Norbert, a frequent contributor, has said much about the improved quality of some of the Chinese made grands, and I think you would be wise to at least play them to hear and see for yourself. If you find one to your liking, they will be much less expensive than most non-Chinese instruments.

Be patient. Good luck.

True, but only some really make the cut.....

P.S. Prambergers, either by Samick or Young Chang, still represent one of the best deals out.

Good pianos....undervalued....

Norbert

I own a Young Chang-Pramberger Platinum. I know a few others in PW here also have Young Chang-Pramberger, and they love theirs as much as I love mine.

I have not played on a Samick-Pramberger so I cannot make a comment on that. As far as physical specifications, there isn't much difference from the Young Chang-Pramberger.

Here is a previous thread that we talked about the former Pramberger. http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/12946.html#000009

Perhaps this will put your questions to rest regarding the "differences" between a Young Chang Pramberger and a Pramberger manufactured by SMC. Without going into specific manufacturing designs and a bunch of technical jargon, let me say this. I am a Registered Piano Technician of 30+ years, as well as a retail piano store owner. I have sold YC Pramberger pianos for several years, and had a relationship with Joe Pramberger. I have continued to sell the Pramberger piano after the change to SMC. In short, the new Pramberger pianos manufactured by SMC are equal in quality with additional design enhancements. All told, from a technician/retail store owner's viewpoint, SMC has one of the best overall support teams in the business today. Not to mention, the Pramberger pianos are one of the best values for the $ that are available today.[/b] I have a basis for comparison - I have personally prepped and tuned the Pramberger line of pianos for years, and have found them to be consistently (and still do) solid instruments. You can't go wrong with these pianos.

I just had a dealer quote $12,500 for a 5'2" JP157. According to a post here, the JP185 sold for 12,500 in November, 2004. Why are these prices all over the board. It's my opinion that the JP157 should be sold for somewhere in the neighborhood of $8-9K based on the sale of the JP185 Bubinga sold in November, 04. I guess dealers price them as they need to. Am I that far off? Posters here say they are being closed out and you can get them at an incredible price, but 12,500k for a JP157 seems high even if they weren't being closed out! Any information would be appreciated.

Young Chang Pramberger prices ARE very widely varied. There are several reasons for theis:

1. Some dealers bought them from YC as "close-outs" and they were discounted heavily, particularly the exotic finishes. Many dealers still have limited stock which they paid full price for.

2. Some dealers who have not made the switch to Samick (SMC) are pricing the JPs a llittle higher as they wait for replacement units.

3. Some dealers use "value" pricing. I.e. they prioce their instruments based on their value compared to other competitive products.

4. Some dealers who made the switch are dumping their YC inventory to make room for the SMC pianos that are shipping.

We have been closing out our existing inventory of YC Prambergers. We are down to 3-4 grands, and about 10 verticals.

What sizes of grand do you still have?

Ditto. We have also been closing out our YC Prambergers. We're also down to a low # of grands & verticals.

I've been quite pleased with my YC Pramberger but unless you get a better price than what you're quoting here, I might lay out for awhile and see how things shake out. People (dealers) are claiming the new Samick Prambergers are the equal or superior to the YC Prmabergers. Maybe. I don't know; there's not much market presence yet.

I really like pianos like the Yamaha C3 and was focused on acquiring one until I came across the particular Pramberger I've written about here on PW. Once again, I come to this as a jazz player, not classical.

A wealth of information! Some time has passed since last discussion in 2006. I'd like to revisit this Pramberger topic as I'm shopping for a grand piano. I would appreciate some advice, please. Here's what I've found so far...

I've played a few Yamaha Grand C3's (built 1995 approximately) but didn't feel the "Earth move". I had expected more-going price in Toronto/Mississauga ON is $19995. + 13% sales tax in Ontario= 22599 includes shipping set up 2 free tunings & 10 yr warranty. These being sold by reputable technicians/piano stores. I found the bass very bold & round, while the upper range edgy- not nearly as expressive, sparkly, as I had anticipated. Kinda let me down. Strange as I thought Yamaha C3 would have been my first choice.

I recently played a Yamaha G5 6'6" built 1974. Stunning, beautiful to play. Price $7900 CDN+ tax. Being sold by piano tech at his studio. A couple of very slight surface lines in the finish on the lid- doesn't seem to affect the sound at all. No sostenuto pedal; has warranty. Playing this one, I definitely felt passion. Wonderful! My concerns with this one include: might it be "grey"? (How would I know?) And its age... should I forgo buying a considerably older piano and spend considerably more to get a newer one? Will a newer one be more dependable in the long run? Do I need to worry about anything serious going wrong with the piano due to age? If you know what I mean...

Lastly, is a 6’1” JP-185 JP Pramberger Regal Artist Grand Piano Series kewazinga bubinga $19999 tax included, shipping set-up tuning warranty. Didn't get the age though. I thought the dealer said 2 yrs, but the JP-185 is older no? I know it's definitely the model stated above. What a beautiful instrument! Great round sound in bass & twinkly, expressive in the upper range. Love the responsiveness of the keys & melodious tone. (Yamaha C3 didn't nearly sound so fine -except for the older G5.) Playing this was an enlightenment & I think I felt the tingle that tells me I should buy. Love? So what about Pramberger- especially this model? Is this quality "up there" with Yamaha? Is this "worth" the extra cost- given age, would you say? Is the quality there? Currently- and years down the road, is this Pramberger model going to have the dependability/respectability in the market that Yamaha has earned, would you say? Is this a piano of choice for years to come? Should I buy?

So... That Yamaha G5 is pretty fine- but it's older- maybe grey?? Not sure about that. And the Pramberger.. I am not as familiar with. What about this brand vs Yamaha for dependability, long term reliability and construction? Is this piano respected in the market, one that will hold its value and dependability over the long term? Yamaha is so respected like that. Not to mention big price difference between older Yamaha G5 vs newer Pramberger.

Thanks for your suggestions/thoughts. This shopping for "used" is tough. Hard to figure out in my mind what the best purchase is. Thanks in advance- With appreciation.

The Pramberger "spoke" to you and is one of the best buys on the market.

Go for it.

The link below shows two videos of what I believe is a YC Pramberger:

http://fr.youtube.com/user/barrytognolini

Not that I am a particular fanatic of the type of music being played I immediately liked the piano sound of the Pramberger.

So, Sonicboom, if you are equally impressed with the one you've played, I think you should go for it.

schwammerl.

When I was looking for my upright, both the Pramberger and YC Platinum stood out. I ended up with the YC -- actually the Albert Weber version, which is the same piano. I don't regret my decision at all. Albert sounds great every time I play it.

I've subsequently played several Albert Weber grands too, which are very impressive. But to get back to Sonicboom's question, there's a very simple answer. The $12K to $18K price range is heavily contested turf, especially towards the $18K range. The YC Platinum and Pramberger are both worthy contenders, along with Kawai and Yamaha. Pramberger makes a 5'3" model, while YC's Platinum brand starts at 5'9", which could be a factor. For that matter, if you like the "American" sound, Sohmer is pretty impressive for the price -- and if the $18K can stretch into the low-mid-20s, then it really opens up choices to add Estonia, Petrof, etc.

Sonicboom, you should have a blast making your choice .....

Good Day Shwammerl & TheCaz

Thanks for responding. Actually, I am not Sonicboom- I am Sugar1. It's ok- Any input is greatly appreciated. I just didn't want you 2 to think I was a different person than who you thought.

Well, I tried some Kawai's and for some reason, I prefer the Yamaha for touch. Will try Sohmer, Estonia & Petrof then. Thanks for reference.

You know, used vs new... if a 10 yr old grand Yahama piano is going for $20000, and I can buy a new Yamaha Grand for $25000 (given manufacturer rebate program going on now), it seems to me the new would be the better option, no? Amazing how in this market used is not a huge savings, relatively speaking. Your thoughts on new/used choice right now. Is the used a better constructed piano than new? Is the quality for new better now over a 10 yr old grand? I'm talking Yamaha.

I need to check out new Pramberger vs the used one I found to find out what the price difference is new/used- just for curiosity. Funny my head says buy Yamaha, my heart heard Pramberger, and I'm in a dilemma. Can you address that?

You're over-thinking this. Both Pramberger and Yamaha are high quality pianos that will stand the test of time. Go with the one whose sound and feel you like the best and don't look back.

Now, however, is the time to make sure that there isn't something else out there that speaks to you even more. For example, if the new versus used Pramberger issue makes you curious, what about the Pramberger versus the Young Chang Platinum/Albert Weber? And enjoy sampling an Estonia and Petrof as well.

Have some fun, and when you're ready to make a decision, go with your heart within your budget because every one of the pianos we're talking about is a quality instrument.

I hope this helps.

To Sugar1:

Last night I was in the Long & McQuade Bloor St. store, Toronto. They have a Pramberger grand for under $9000. I didn't know anything then about the YC vs. Samick backgrounds, so I don't know which it was, but, given that I haven't seen Pramberger at L& McQ before, I suspect the latter.

I played it, but not for assessing the instrument. I was playing a piece of sheet music produced by another shopper and she wanted to hear the piece. Even so, I wasn't displeased with it. I had just come from Remenyi's and had played a Boston upright which I liked very much, but it was over $21000. Taking into account the difference in price, the Pramberger wasn't all that bad.