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#335723 - 10/21/05 09:53 AM 15k for a PERZINA?
Justplay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 236
Well those CHINESE pianos made with Renner action are selling for 15k. That's the baby grand 5'3". Is there anyone out there that thinks that the piano is worth it? Why would one buy that when you have so many other larger/better pianos within $1000.00. What are they thinking? Estonia started at a lower price range and increased their prices as the product became more in demand as well as increased the quality of the piano.

These Perzina E series are prototypes and have no history in the way they perform. The factory is a couple years old and has changed designs/names and designers many times. I know I'm not going to bite.

I'm not going to be the first or 1500th to pay that for a Baby Grand Chinese piano. For what it's worth, that's what they're asking???

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#335724 - 10/21/05 10:27 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6162
So you you basically say "new name, new designer, new factory, no track record ... hence should be cheap!"

Sounds reasonable on the surface, but on the other hand... I doubt the first Fazioli ever that hit retail sold to a customer for less than $14k (after correcting for inflation). Same deal with the "new name, new designer, new factory, no track record" bits, the only difference is that one factory is in China and the other is in Italy -- why should the Italians get paid more than the Chinese?

I wonder how people will react if we substitute "Perzina" with "Fazioli" and "Chinese" with "Italian" through out your post. \:\)

Judge the piano by itself, not by its country of origin, and I agree that having good "track record" should worth something (and the lack of it should subtract from the value).

If after playing/examining it you are still not convinced that it's worth $14k, than it's not worth $14k.

I haven't played any 5'3" Perzina grand, so I withhold judgment until I have. \:\)
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#335725 - 10/21/05 11:04 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
Perzinas have gotten a great deal of good press and are considered a hot competitor from China.

Do a scan and look 'em up. All Chinese pianos are no more equal than are all European pianos.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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#335726 - 10/21/05 11:43 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by mikhailoh:
All Chinese pianos are no more equal than are all European pianos. [/b]
that might not stand up to 'scrutiny'....
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#335727 - 10/21/05 05:23 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Justplay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 236
Yup! that's what they cost? 15k! As good as European they say. But...made in China...

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#335728 - 10/21/05 05:52 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
Apple, I think it would stand up fine.

In my experience there is an ever-widening variety in the quality and musicality of pianos coming from China and Indonesia. Nordiskas, for instance are worlds above the George Stecks that I've played. The Rittmullers are, IMO, rivalling a lot of Samick's K&C Millenium(I think that is the right term) and those K&C's are pretty nice. That said, some of the bottom end are just that.

Are they the equal of Bosies, Faziolis or Bechsteins (or a lot of other great pianos)? Nope. Neither are any number of other European manufacturers we could name.

Perzinas have gotten some awfully good reviews from people. I look forward to playing them.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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#335729 - 10/21/05 06:01 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Copper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1048
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Axtremus:
-- why should the Italians get paid more than the Chinese?
[/b]
Italian workers get paid more - a lot more. That is one reason the Italians get paid more for a piano.

I'm not commenting on the piano's quality or absolute worth.

However it is worth noting that, in general, Chinese workers labor under conditions that wouldn't be tolerated in developed countries. One of these poor conditions is very low wages.
_________________________


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#335730 - 10/22/05 09:33 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Justplay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 236
It's just too new to take a chance with 15k. I would, however had looked at paying 10k or so like the other chinese brands. Maybe add 12k for Renner, but not 15k. Just my opinion.

Chinese are going to start importing cars and if they're priced right I would buy.

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#335731 - 10/22/05 11:19 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
sand Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Justplay, i just cannot help thinking that if you check that "made in XXX" label on everything you purchase. if you don't like something then don't buy it. someone else may like it and pay what they think is a fair price. you have no right to call the pricing a "rip off" just because it's made in China, or Indonesia, or Japan, or U.S.

BTW, I am Chinese and I do not like you. if i had the money i would buy it for whatever price i'm willing to pay. sadly i'm not that wealthy so i just went for a Pearl River, which i like and paid well. in addition to its quality i'm paying to show my support to my country. and i'm proud of myself.

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#335732 - 10/23/05 12:28 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Well, I played those $15K Bosies and Faziolis, and let me tell you, they aren't anything close to as nice as the ones that cost $100,000!

This friendly shopping tip brought to you by Nina, who would consider $15K for a Perzina or a Pramberger.

Sand, I think you called it.

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#335733 - 10/23/05 12:31 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
CSG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 494
Nina, as a Pramberger owner, thanks. I think ;\)
_________________________
Pramberger JP-185 Bubinga
Kawai CP155
Yamaha P-120

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#335734 - 10/23/05 12:33 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I was quite impressed with the Pramberger I played... It was one of the spiffy series (JP? not sure), absolutely gorgeous looking instrument in bubinga, and played very nicely. I think it was in the $17,000 range. I'm not sure, since I wasn't really in the market, just played it out of curiosity. It was very nice-- 7foot-ish.

Perzina surprised me as well. I think it's an excellent piano for its price.

(Edit: Duh, I just looked at your signature. It's possible I'm talking about the exact same piano as yours! \:\) ).

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#335735 - 10/23/05 12:35 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
CSG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 494
Mine's the bubinga too. At $12.5k new last January, it was the best piano I found for under $25k.
_________________________
Pramberger JP-185 Bubinga
Kawai CP155
Yamaha P-120

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#335736 - 10/23/05 12:40 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Sounds like you got a steal! (BTW, if you ever find those Bosies and Fazioli's at the $15,000 price point, be sure and let me know, OK? ;\) ).

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#335737 - 10/23/05 12:53 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
CSG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 494
As discussed here back last year, YC or the US distributor anyway was, blowing them out to reduce inventory and raise capital in light of their bankruptcy issues. There was a fellow here who bought his from Baldessin (sp) in SLC a few months earlier for another couple thousand less.

I'm not a technician but these are pretty decent pianos from what I learned and I was lucky to have been shopping at just the right moment.
_________________________
Pramberger JP-185 Bubinga
Kawai CP155
Yamaha P-120

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#335738 - 10/23/05 09:23 AM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
I understand there may be some more of the JP's released to market at pretty good prices. Take a look around. I surely like mine.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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#335739 - 10/23/05 03:35 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Art Olson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/01
Posts: 150
Loc: San Marcos, CA
I visited the Perzina factory in Yantai This summer. The workers are well paid, incredibly well treated and get to work in a brand new beautiful factory. They get a free ride to work in a new factory van, work 8 to 5 with breaks and are given lunch prepared by the factory's full time world class chef! He cooked dinner for us one evening and it was some of the best food I have ever had.
Old generalizations about China don't seem to apply at Perzina.

Art
_________________________
Artistic Pianos
North San Diego
artisticpianos.com

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#335740 - 10/23/05 03:42 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
Art, I wish I still lived out your way.. used to be in Mission Beach. If I get out there I will drop in to try the Perzinas for sure.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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#335741 - 10/23/05 04:57 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Art Olson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/01
Posts: 150
Loc: San Marcos, CA
I'll look forward to your visit.
_________________________
Artistic Pianos
North San Diego
artisticpianos.com

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#335742 - 10/23/05 06:57 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
When you set the price high, people complain it being too high for a chinese product. When you set the price low, people complain it being too low that it would take away their jobs.
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#335743 - 10/23/05 07:14 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Eins Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 748
Loc: Utah
pno,
and then there is marketing:
set your price too low, and people perceive your brand as junk. Set it too high, and they think it is overpriced. Finding the right price is the hard part where all are happy.
_________________________
One of the funny things about the stock market is that every time one person buys, another sells, and both think they are astute.
-William Feather

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#335744 - 10/23/05 07:28 PM Re: 15k for a PERZINA?
Art Olson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/01
Posts: 150
Loc: San Marcos, CA
Then there is that pesky cost of parts. In Perzina's case, they buy most of their parts from Europe.
_________________________
Artistic Pianos
North San Diego
artisticpianos.com

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