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#340815 - 02/01/07 11:06 AM Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Harleysdad Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 9
Help me decide please. I can get a 5'5" Peral River or a 6'1" Otto Meister around the same price. Otto may be abit more. Actually, I can get the Otto for $7000.00. Which way should I go?

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#340816 - 02/01/07 11:22 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14037
Loc: Louisiana
Two questions:

1. Which one do YOU like better?

2. Which dealer will do a better job of prepping the piano for you?
_________________________
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#340817 - 02/01/07 11:29 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Harleysdad Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 9
I am new to the piano world. I think I like the the sound of the 6'1" Otto Meister over the Peral River. I think the prepping of the piano would also be the Otto. I guess I am just worried about the build and the components of the two.

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#340818 - 02/01/07 11:44 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Jim Volk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 916
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
Jolly's right on both counts, in my opinion: build quality is not going to be the deciding factor here, as that playing field is level in respect to both pianos.

My subjective opinion is, that if both pianos are sufficiently prepped and in tune, you'll find the Meister preferable.

Not only because it's a bigger piano, and consequently has the potential for a scale design that takes advantage of additional space on the soundboard for longer bass strings and more advantageous bass bridge placement, but because I think other factors like hammer hardness and action design make the Otto Meister more of a pianist's piano.

Pearl River has wider US distribution, and probably better name recognition, but I think it would only give you a very slight advantage relative to resale value, if you are looking at other such factors besides inherent quality, playbility and tone.
_________________________
Jim Volk
PIANOVATION

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#340819 - 02/01/07 11:47 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14037
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Harleysdad:
I am new to the piano world. I think I like the the sound of the 6'1" Otto Meister over the Peral River. I think the prepping of the piano would also be the Otto. I guess I am just worried about the build and the components of the two. [/b]
And I think you're smart to do so, since they're both Chinese.

I think the Pearl River may be a bit better in the resale department, but the other piano is bigger, and size does make a difference.

If you have tech you can trust, or you have a friend with a good tech, you may even want to have the tech look at the Otto for you. It's a little unusual for a tech to go over a new piano, but that tech fee may buy you a lot of peace of mind.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#340820 - 02/01/07 12:42 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8077
Loc: Georgia, USA
I think $7000 for the OM seems like a good price/value. I was quoted a price of $8350 (including sales tax) for a 6 foot Bergmann (by YC).

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#340821 - 02/02/07 02:32 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
JodyTowles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 53
go with the otto, after asking the same questions here, ive decided to go with the otto also. I just dont like pearl rivers, mabye for firewood, or a beginner piano?.

my opinion
_________________________
Jody C Towles

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#340822 - 02/02/07 11:15 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
6' Otto Meister.

No question.

Longer piano.....

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#340823 - 02/02/07 11:50 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Harleysdad Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 9
Thanks for the input. I am going with the Otto. Is there anything special things I should have the paino tech pay special attention to, such as special adjustments,etc.?

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#340824 - 02/02/07 12:17 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Arvada, CO
I don't remember where I read this, but the general advice is that when shopping for entry-level grand pianos, to get the biggest piano your space and budget can accommodate. The larger piano gives you more to work with, and you'll benefit more from any additional tech/prep work (voicing, regulation, etc.) you have done after the purchase.

If 6' Otto Meisters are selling for $7-8K, I wonder if they'll bring out a 7' model. Introducing one of those in the ~$10-13K range could really disrupt the market. \:\)
_________________________
Colin Dunn

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#340825 - 02/02/07 08:27 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
Thanks for the input. I am going with the Otto. Is there anything special things I should have the paino tech pay special attention to, such as special adjustments,etc.?
Have the piano well prepped, tuned and regulated.

This model has a solid spruce soundboard, good hammers and should sound terrific.

[Sorry, not my favourite name......]

An amazing deal, though!

Come back at some later time and tell us how things worked out for you!

Norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#340826 - 02/03/07 01:53 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
From a piano tech point of view I like dealing with brands that have a U.S. distributor that has a customer service dept. and stocks parts. I know that Pearl River is so in Ontario, CA. I don't not know Otto Meister in this regard. Maybe other can answer.
Certainly Pear River's association with Yamaha and Steinway has given it a leg up in the profile department.
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#340827 - 02/03/07 03:07 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Craigen said:

 Quote:
Certainly Pear River's association with Yamaha and Steinway has given it a leg up in the profile department.
Profile perhaps.

But not necessarily in the 'music' department.

Confident makers always can stand quite well on their own.

My recommendation is always to choose a piano for what it actually *is* -
not because of some story about it.

At the same time Pearl River is playing up the Yamaha connection to their own pianos,I doubt very much that Steinway or Yamaha would appreciate people pointing out the connection of their pianos to Pearl River in reverse - allowing for some kind of a conclusion about the quality of their own pianos as a result of it....

Norbert \:o
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#340828 - 02/03/07 07:06 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
CozyWriter Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 789
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
This week I tickled a "hybrid" Ritmuller/Yamaha vertical (a totally decent piano - I liked it a thousand times better than a "regular" Ritmuller) and it had a little sticker on the front lower side of the keyboard that said something like "Made by Yamaha for Ritmuller."

It didn't look like something the dealer would have added on in the store (like a paper label) but was definitely a transparent sticker w/gold lettering, and not an applique'.

As a consumer I didn't really CARE that it was built by Yamaha (or whatever the deatils of that deal are) but more that it was a darn nice feeling action.

A little pricey though. I wonder if I could have gotten into a Yamaha upright for about the same $ or less.
_________________________
Inspiration is the act of pulling a chair up to the writing desk.
Pramberger JP-185 (a 6'1" mahogany-red Grand)+ Glenn Gould-ish piano chair (no cushion)

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#340829 - 02/03/07 07:59 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
CTPianotech Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 1473
Loc: CT
The piano is assembled in a Yamaha/Pearl River 'joint venture' facility using Pearl River components. Apparently in China, the piano is sold as a Yamaha.

If there was a substantial difference in action performance of that Ritmuller upright vs other Ritmuller uprights, it is likely because that particular piano had received a bit of attention from the dealers tech, while the others hadn't. (or none of them had been serviced, and that one just happened to show up needing less) That's been our experience in the ones we've sold.
_________________________
Rich Lindahl
Piano Restorations in Central CT
D-C installations, Player-Piano installations/service
Ritmuller/Pearl River

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#340830 - 02/03/07 08:18 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
CozyWriter Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 789
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Yes, definitely could have been the floor stock for that dealer. Makes sense that they would fluff up that one, since it was a couple of grand more than the "average" new upright on the floor, competing with the new Kawai prices.

I also noticed that even though I was quite infatuated with the Knabe grands he had, the upright was a "Definite NO" after just a few bars. The action was light as rice paper (to my numb fingers.)


At least they were all in tune \:\)
_________________________
Inspiration is the act of pulling a chair up to the writing desk.
Pramberger JP-185 (a 6'1" mahogany-red Grand)+ Glenn Gould-ish piano chair (no cushion)

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#340831 - 02/04/07 06:31 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
Norbert,
I agree the piano must stand on its own. My comment about profile would speak to possible resale down the road. This is a common thread amoung threads.

That Yamaha and Steinway both chose to do business with Pearl River instead of others in China must be given some consideration.

My comment about local stateside distributorship support is much more important.
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#340832 - 02/04/07 06:33 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
Harleysdad's questions were regarding small grands. How did we digress into discussions about uprights?
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#340833 - 02/05/07 02:28 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
That Yamaha and Steinway both chose to do business with Pearl River instead of others in China must be given some consideration.
Fair enough.

But nobody seems to know exactly what the nature of this 'business' is.

It could have been a stricly corporate decision -less to do with presumably "exclusive quality"...

Yamaha, on their side, certainly seems to remain rather nonchalant about their cooperation with Pearl River in China.

Is it perhaps because Yamaha's previous Eterna line of pianos made by P.R. were nothing special to write home about?

In fact, it would be nice to find out what exactly Pearl River is building for Yamaha these days.

From the consumer point of view, it certainly would be mor transparent if a manufacturer restricts its advertising and product description to the very piano he is selling under his own name.

That's all.

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#340834 - 02/05/07 09:33 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Jazzmandave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 154
Loc: Portland, Oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
 Quote:
That Yamaha and Steinway both chose to do business with Pearl River instead of others in China must be given some consideration.
Fair enough.

But nobody knows what exactly the 'reasons' were.

They could have been strictly 'corporate' - nothing to do with 'quality'.......

...

Norbert [/b]
Norbert, are you suggesting that Yamaha and Steinway make business decisions without regard to quality?

Is this how you think they have taken their leadership positions in the market? By disregarding quality?

Interesting Theory.
_________________________
David Rooksby
D.S.M., Pearl River Piano Co.
Canada & Northwest USA
www.pearlriverusa.com

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#340835 - 02/05/07 10:27 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
CozyWriter Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 789
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
 Quote:
Norbert, are you suggesting that Yamaha and Steinway make business decisions without regard to quality?

Is this how you think they have taken their leadership positions in the market? By disregarding quality?

Interesting Theory. [/b]
Taking the leadership position is a branding proposition that could be built on quality or price or a good marketing slogan (who wouldn't aspire to driving "The Standard of the World?), or a good spokesmodel (unfortunately that one didn't work for Taco Bell)

Then maintaining that position becomes more a situation of selling more widgets than the widgetmaker down the street.

Easier if you outsource the widgets and sell them under another name so that the original brand doesn't get diluted except to the cogniscenti who know that A and B are the same "corporate family." (Does the average consumer in the showroom know/care about the relationship between Kohler and Knabe?)


In that case, from the boardroom, who cares if Essex is a high quality piano or not, as long as we sell a bunch of them.

If Steinway (for example) "owns" the high-end market, why should they worry about building low-end pianos except to make money by cannibalizing sales from competitors in that market?
_________________________
Inspiration is the act of pulling a chair up to the writing desk.
Pramberger JP-185 (a 6'1" mahogany-red Grand)+ Glenn Gould-ish piano chair (no cushion)

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#340836 - 02/06/07 12:42 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
Norbert, are you suggesting that Yamaha and Steinway make business decisions without regard to quality?

Is this how you think they have taken their leadership positions in the market? By disregarding quality?
Not at all.

In fact both Steinway and Yamaha have gained their position in the market long before ever becoming involved with Pearl River in China.

Would one be out of line to say that their previous attempts to have some pianos built such as the Ottostein and Yamaha's discontinued line of Eterna pianos,weren't exactly at the pinnacle of this manufacturer's quality?

And if the Steinway's licensed line of Essex pianos has lifted the quality of Pearl River's own pianos onto another level - and it is entirely possible they have - it would be nice to learn where and in which regard.

Also since Yamaha itself doesn't seem to mention much about their involvement with Pearl River on their part, it would certainly be interesting to learn from a Pearl River rep what exactly the company is building for Yamaha today and at this time.

It must be pretty major, considering the name of Yamaha is constantly being used in Pearl River sales presentations.

No links to this effect included - but certainly *could*....

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#340837 - 02/06/07 08:38 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Jazzmandave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 154
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Norbert

Steinway and Yamaha did built their reputations long before working with Pearl River. True. Did anyone suggest different??? See Norbert, this is another example of you trying to manipulate the innocent reader.

1. You are correct that Yamaha Corporation of America, a customer of Yamaha, does not tout the joint venture factory our two companies own and operate together. They do not import pianos from this Factory, so why should they talk it up?

If a salesperson in your market is lying about the relationship, embellishing it etc.., be specific and name him/her and what they are saying. I ask you yet again to stop being deceptive through your blanket statements about what salespeople say about our products.

You do not hear what salespeople are "constantly" saying... you are a retailer in Surrey, BC. (Although on your website you were caliming to be a wholesaler for your product lines, is this true? Which lines are you a wholesaler for?)

All you know is what you hear third party, and over the internet. Good, honest salespeople don't seem to have many stories relayed about them on the internet.

What salespeople are taught about the relationship by our reps and our company is simple. It is that Pearl River and Yamaha operate a jointly owned factory in GuangZhou, (pronounced quon-joe)China, where they build (assemble) several models of pianos for Yamaha which are not sold in the USA, and they also build the UP125M1 and UP126R models for Pearl River & Ritmuller, which are sold internationally and are imported to the USA for our dealers.

Thats it. If people draw other conclusions from the fact that our two companies have been working together in this joint venture for over 10 years now in the same city as our main plant, I would understand why, but is not at our urging or from our teaching. I don't see it a far fetched concept that Pearl River would learn from working with Yamaha and Steinway, ... do you?

2. You make the suggestion that we think our pianos have been "elevated to a new level" by our relationship with Steinway. Where did this come from? Do not put words in my mouth or others'. YOU said this, not us.

From my perspective, I am pleased that Pearl River was chosen by Steinway to build Essex pianos, which have been very well received by Steinway dealers. Also, know that some Essex models are by Young Chang.

The real problem with Norbert, is that Norbert knows all of this and continues to try to give the illusion that he does not.

He tries to paint this picture for his own personal benefit because of his proximity to and competitive difficulty with a very strong Pearl River dealer in his market. This is what Norbert WONT TELL YOU, because it would diminish his posts if he was up front about this fact in each of them.
_________________________
David Rooksby
D.S.M., Pearl River Piano Co.
Canada & Northwest USA
www.pearlriverusa.com

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#340838 - 02/06/07 10:41 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Kingfrog777 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 243
 Quote:
2. You make the suggestion that we think our pianos have been "elevated to a new level" by our relationship with Steinway. Where did this come from? Do not put words in my mouth or others'. YOU said this, not us.
Dave
As a salesman who sells both PR and Yamaha I must say we do use the working relationship of PR and Steinway to indicate Pearl River is a builder of quality pianos trusted by the premier brands in the industry. Not that it makes the PR branded pianos better. Only that they are trusted to build pianos that won't fall apart for other reputable makers who have much more to lose in the event the quality is not in line with what people expect for the additional money paid for the name. Are we wrong to quietly assume the Essex branded piano is made from better parts and more care then the PR brand and its only labor they both share?

(Now if only Steinway would put their name front and center on the fall boards like Yamaha does on ALL their lines)
_________________________
Piano, pro audio,guitar and MI sales.
Yamaha, Pearl River, Bergmann, Remington.

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#340839 - 02/06/07 11:21 AM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Jazzmandave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 154
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Kingfrog:

What you wrote illustrates my point I hope.
This is in my opinion is an honest way to present the information.

I have seen the Essex pianos that Pearl River makes at two of my dealers' stores, and they are indeed different pianos than ours. They are different scales, different back assembly, cabinets, etc..., and are more money than Pearl Rivers.
_________________________
David Rooksby
D.S.M., Pearl River Piano Co.
Canada & Northwest USA
www.pearlriverusa.com

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#340840 - 02/06/07 02:35 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
Steinway to indicate Pearl River is a builder of quality pianos trusted by the premier brands in the industry. Not that it makes the PR branded pianos better.[/b]
Thank you for the clarification.

 Quote:
I have seen the Essex pianos that Pearl River makes at two of my dealers' stores, and they are indeed different pianos than ours.[/b]
Thank you,too.

 Quote:
Norbert tries to paint this picture for his own personal benefit because of his proximity to and competitive difficulty with a very strong Pearl River dealer in his market.
You gotta be kidding.

O.K. - so our used piano market is down a bit....

Norbert \:D
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#340841 - 02/06/07 03:04 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Harleysdad Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 9
Okay guys, should I go with Otto Meister or a Steigerman?

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#340842 - 02/06/07 06:06 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Why not also a 6' Pearl River grand?

As long as you happen to like any piano for what it is as a musical instrument,the choice is yours.

Regardless of story....

Norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#340843 - 02/06/07 06:22 PM Re: Pearl River vs. Otto Meister
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
Harleysdad,

Pick the piano that sounds the best to you. You seemed to have looked at a lot of pianos in a particular range- what do you think?

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