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#342840 - 12/03/08 03:18 AM Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
So...how does one choose a piano? By touch, tone, appearance (quoting Fogvillelad), or is there something else operating at a subconscious level that pulls one towards certain brands, countries of origin, pedigree? Putting aside for a second the whole debate about Chinese/Indonesian piano longevity, why would one choose one brand over another?
What another thread revealed (to me, at least) was that when one doesn't have the opportunity to see a piano but can here it being played, guessing its country of origin proves to be extremely difficult, but when one "knows" how a piano should sound because of its brand then certain assumptions are then made about why it cannot be as good as others from more established piano building countries.

So, does anyone choose to share what made them avoid certain pianos and choose the one they did?
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#342841 - 12/03/08 04:26 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
mjs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: München, Germany
I think it is a little bit like choosing a partner - establish what you can afford at the most (with this I don't mean the "initial budget" that few people stick to anyhow, but the absolute limit), then play as many pianos within that range as you manage. You'll know which one is "the one" when you play it (at least I did -- any other instruments after that were more or less for confirming that the first impression was the correct one).
_________________________
Steingraeber D-232 # 45 777
Neupert Telemann harpsichord

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#342842 - 12/03/08 04:28 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
I don't think the preference of a brand, country of origin etc. occurs in subconscious level. Somehow, these factors do play a part in resale value and sign of prestige.

Brands are influencing the resale value strongly, IMHO. If going by Larry Fine's ranking, a Young Chang Platinum is of the same group with a Yamaha C. But, a YC can never be sold at a price same with Yamaha C given both of them are in the same condition, same ages etc. Of course, the price might be influenced by the original price bought, but on resale market, Yamaha surely has a wide market compared to a YC.
In short, brands plays a part in reselling by commanding higher prices and wider market.

If you are given the same money to buy one of the following pianos -at the same price-, will you get a:
1. Shigeru Kawai 9', or
2. Kawai 9'?
For the same money, I believe many people will go for Shigeru Kawai. Don't forget Kawai concert grand is also handcrafted and I believe the difference in performance level will be very small (Disclaimer: It's my guess, I have no experiences on either of them.).
Why do people opt for the Shigeru? Because it represents sign of prestige.
(Anyway, if one could let us know the technical difference between the SK-EX and normal EX, perhaps this example can become useless.)

Why Young Chang wants to have a Albert Weber in which the pianos are identical at all?
Imagine you have friends visiting your house, given that you are very confident to impress your friends with the piano, will you prefer to let your friend to see a Young Chang or Albert Weber on the fallboard?

In my own dilemma, I am avoiding some stencil brands even if it's from Hailun. I feel that the resale value has played a part for me to avoid the stencils. Other people may have other reasons to avoid stencils. And of course, if Hailun is becoming the next Yamaha in piano industry, then the Hailun brand name can be a sign of prestige as well.

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#342843 - 12/03/08 07:40 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Deon van aswegen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 142
Loc: South Africa
In my case the instrument had to fullfill my needs and expectations. It did not matter which brand. So, I auditioned many different brands, and let each instrument speak to me.

This being my 6th grand - I have owned European and Japanese brands, which unfortunately met with demise under my hands \:D i knew exactly what I wanted in a piano. And it was.....

Tone
Touch
Reliability
and......
a certain connection with the instrument which is soooo rare.

So auditioned piano after piano - and 2 years later ended up with an RX6. The instrument responds to my particular style of playing. Nuf said!

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#342844 - 12/03/08 08:01 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8067
Loc: Georgia, USA
Another interesting thread, Newguy.

Here is another example of what you are referring to (I think). It seems strange that a not-so-highly thought of brand can sound so nice.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/24476.html

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#342845 - 12/03/08 08:52 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Always Wanted to Play Piano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 674
Loc: Chicago
Is this the thread where we get to find out what you bought?
_________________________

Casio Ap-200
Almost midway thru Alfred's All-In-One Book Two
Blogging my family's piano learning experiences: http://aw2pp.blogspot.com/

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#342846 - 12/03/08 09:49 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
Putting aside for a second the whole debate about Chinese/Indonesian piano longevity, why would one choose one brand over another?
[/b]
Easier said than done.

I can do it more than some because I don't play an acoustic at home nearly as much as most here. In ten years on a home acoustic I will probably play the equivalent hours that some here will in one. From that I can exprapolate that the point at which a Chinese piano will collapse into a pile of sawdust and scrap metal will occur somewhat later for me. \:D The same would hold for how often hammers might need to be voiced or the action regulated. Ability to hold a tune is another matter though.

Nevertheless, following your cue to put aside longevity concerns, I would be very leery of the piano that speaks to me in a given moment and favor the piano that can communicate what I want with the most immediacy and accuracy in its response.

I don't know enough about action geometry, lost motion, aftertouch, etc. to know why it is so, but I know that certain manufacturers produce products that are , for lack of a better word, tight. You can sense that almost nothing is lost in translation between the strike of the key and the the responding sound. I don't mean tone. That's a whole other something. Over the years I have found that I tire of any piano's tone that I live with and play with more interest, concentration, and attention to detail on someone else's.

Dynamic range would be big for me if budget were not a concern. My own experience is that most instruments that can be manipulated easily at the soft end of the range require an expenditure beyond what I feel is practical for me. So if a piano that I can afford has some of that, it's a big plus.

This is admittedly a messy answer to your question.

New guy,

I didn't respond to your other thread for several reasons.

1) I don't want to make a fool of myself.

2) I've used a small T-mike extensively. A T-mike in particular, and recording in general, can produce results that are way different from live listening and most significantly, listening while playing.

3) Any piano that would tie Prospero, J Pels, and me together (as you alluded to on your other thread) would be a piano from hell. \:D
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#342847 - 12/03/08 12:38 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:


New guy,

I didn't respond to your other thread for several reasons.

1) I don't want to make a fool of myself.

A fool? Never! I believe your opinions are solid and well thought out. Truly.

2) I've used a small T-mike extensively. A T-mike in particular, and recording in general, can produce results that are way different from live listening and most significantly, listening while playing.

Well, in my experience, the better the mics the better the reproduction, so in this case if it sounds nice with a "T" mic you can extrapolate any further niceness from your imagination. Same goes for headphones/speakers. I wonder what most people listened to the recordings on. If speakers, probably much bass was lost in favor of more midrange.

3) Any piano that would tie Prospero, J Pels, and me together (as you alluded to on your other thread) would be a piano from hell. \:D [/QB]
Oh come on, how would you three entertain yourselves one without the other?
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#342848 - 12/03/08 12:40 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2625
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
I responded in the other thread and now know what the outcome was (nice choice). I do think it's time to make that information public (actually it's long overdue).

When I was shopping I looked for a number of things; responsive action, elegant tone and an ability for the piano to jump out of the box. In other words I wanted the capability of a big sound. I wanted to know that if I dug in the piano could give me that grand sound. It's surprising how few pianos are actually capable of doing that. It's equally important to have control of the quiet side, but I didn't find that capability to be as rare.

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#342849 - 12/03/08 12:51 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Always Wanted to Play Piano:
Is this the thread where we get to find out what you bought? [/b]
Maybe. But only after enough tears are shed and perhaps a bit of gnashing of teeth, etc, etc.


I am tempted to tell. Really I am. It's just that as soon as I do, peoples perceptions will automatically change about the recordings, and hence the piano in question.

Its a Brodmann.


Ok, its not. But it could've been. \:\)
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#342850 - 12/03/08 12:57 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Chandler:
I responded in the other thread and now know what the outcome was (nice choice). I do think it's time to make that information public (actually it's long overdue).

When I was shopping I looked for a number of things; responsive action, elegant tone and an ability for the piano to jump out of the box. In other words I wanted the capability of a big sound. I wanted to know that if I dug in the piano could give me that grand sound. It's surprising how few pianos are actually capable of doing that. It's equally important to have control of the quiet side, but I didn't find that capability to be as rare. [/b]
But Steve, what I also wanted to avoid was a continual ad for my piano, and to justify why I bought it. I'm not sure that it is a good thing for people to keep on plugging their brands as individuals. Nor do I think its very healthy for the buying public to hear from dealers talking about why x piano is the choice to get these days. Its exactly this kind of information that perhaps clouds peoples judgements.

And besides, everyone who wanted to know already knows. A simple PM was all it took.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#342851 - 12/03/08 01:36 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Newguy,

If you want to be a ringmaster, you should join the circus or host a tv talk show.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#342852 - 12/03/08 01:39 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
Newguy,

If you want to be a ringmaster, you should join the circus or host a tv talk show. [/b]
Once he names the piano, his 15 mins of fame is over... \:D


Come on Jim...spill it...

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#342853 - 12/03/08 02:59 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
Clearly, for most shoppers budget and size restrictions will always apply. Often there are other more powerful considerations in play.

Imagine standing in front of the paint brush display at home depot. Three choices, good, better, best. $.85, $5.95, or $15. Often a physchological battle takes place. Not worthy of the best. Too good for the cheapest. Middle ground is safe. Happens in wine selection, and lots of other purchasing decisions, even pianos.
One shopper thinks "I don't like to clean brushes, so I'll buy the cheapest and throw it away when I'm done. They might also do this on a piano choice. Another shopper might be a perfectionist and frequent painter that knows that the best brushes deliver the best finished result. They might be high end buyers in mentality if the budget does not prohibit.
When a prospect comes in and asks to be show uprights in the $4000 range I show those first, but before the interview ends I will show them the $2500 ones and the $8000 ones and guage their reaction to the choice offerings. More often than not, the shopper seeks their own level of comfort for reasons that have little to do with performance, warranty, or branding.
_________________________
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#342854 - 12/03/08 03:15 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
 Quote:
Originally posted by newguyonforum:
So...how does one choose a piano? By touch, tone, appearance (quoting Fogvillelad), or is there something else operating at a subconscious level that pulls one towards certain brands, countries of origin, pedigree?
In addition to touch, tone and appearance, one might also consider the bouquet and taste of the piano. Does it have a pleasant or unpleasant nose? Does it taste like a fine piano should? Is there an unpleasant aftertaste?

If these qualities are still insufficient one could hire an astrologer, psychic, or matchmaker. \:\)
_________________________
Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#342855 - 12/03/08 03:26 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8067
Loc: Georgia, USA
I kind of enjoyed Newguy’s little “guessing game”. It was interesting and fun; plus the piano recording was great as well as his playing.

Also, he gets to see how many PW members, who were informed via PM as to what the mystery piano actually is, are trustworthy in honoring his request to not reveal his secret on the forum until he was ready. I think he has found that they all are.

This is a great forum with great members (for the most part ;\) ).

Best regards,

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#342856 - 12/03/08 04:38 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rickster:
Also, he gets to see how many PW members ... are trustworthy in honoring his request to not revile[/b] his secret ...
I like that! \:D
_________________________
Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#342857 - 12/03/08 05:23 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8067
Loc: Georgia, USA
 Quote:
Whippen boy said: quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rickster:
Also, he gets to see how many PW members ... are trustworthy in honoring his request to not revile his secret ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like that!
Whippen boy, you need to take another look at my post… I haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about. (Thank goodness for the “edit” feature). \:D

Rickster \:\)
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#342858 - 12/03/08 06:07 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 330
Loc: U.S.A.
To answer the original poster, for me it was the following two qualifiers... in this order:

1) American-made

2) The best value/quality for the $$$, including having no flakeboard or chipboard.

This is what opens my wallet.
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

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#342859 - 12/03/08 06:26 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Koichan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Belmont, CA
Great thread, newguy...

I played piano for many years when I was young and then dropped out in my early twenties. (I've been playing guitar since then) I spent all of my practice time on an upright and had the good fortune at times to play on Tier 1 pianos such as Schimmel, Bosie and S&S. I've kept my chops up a tiny bit over the years on a (gasp) digital.

Recently, my family chipped in to help me buy a Grand. My prejudice, subconscious or not was that a grand needed to be European or American to be a "real grand". Anything Asian was just noisey furniture. I had no idea about the whole stencil branding thing. So, when I sat down at what i thought was a Euro piano (Nordiska, Palatino, Pramberger) i was dissapointed! With a little research, i found out who was making these pianos. Would a good voicing and regulation improved them? proabably, but my prejudice and the whole controversy about Chinese/Indo/Korean pianos was getting in the way.

When i sat down at the RX-2 that i eventually bought, i was blown away. I had to really look at my mindset about Asia built pianos. I have to say this was not a big jump for me since i'm half japanese. I'd love to own a Lexus or Infinity and I always loved the Yamaha guitars. I can't say that of products from the other Asian countries.

Tone, dynamic range, touch, reputation, budget and appearance were all important factors in my decision. Maybe a Samic or YC can sound every bit as good or better than my RX2, but this has not been my experience with the ones that i played.

I should also mention that I was blown away with many of the top tier pianos and I also played some that were not to my liking at all. But, these were out of my budget. And even if they were, just because they have a great name on the fallboard doesn't mean that i would like them.

Newguy - maybe your question is more about why *I* think a grand should be Euro or American?

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#342860 - 12/03/08 07:01 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Rickster,

To me your posts are always a revilation. \:D
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#342861 - 12/03/08 07:22 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8067
Loc: Georgia, USA
 Quote:
Turandot said: Rickster,

To me your posts are always a revilation. \:D
What would life be without a smile (or a piano). \:D

Rick
\:\)
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#342862 - 12/03/08 08:06 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
Newguy,

If you want to be a ringmaster, you should join the circus or host a tv talk show. [/b]
Nice, turandot. With one post you've changed my opinion of you. How easily swayed I am, but you knew that from previous posts on different threads.

And I get to be a ringmaster every working day. I'm a band teacher. So there.

I wonder what prompted you to say that?
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#342863 - 12/03/08 10:14 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3635
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
James,

Your mailbox is full.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#342864 - 12/03/08 11:00 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
So now you know how it feels, Rod. ;\)

Wow, they are small boxes. I'll clear room.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#342865 - 12/03/08 11:07 PM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
I wonder what prompted you to say that?
Newguy,

I felt from reading your thread and the entire previous one that some folks were trying to nudge you toward disclosure of what piano you bought. Although I had no curiosity myself, I could understand their feelings. I provided another nudge.

I'm not going to worry about your changed opinion of me. I don't know what your opinion was before and I don't know what it is now. Nor do I care. Far too much time is spent on this forum by people sizing up people and reacting to the preceived personna. Not enough time is spent in the consideration of facts regardless of where they come from.

I answered your question here about what was important to me in choosing a piano. I gave it some thought and expressed my thoughts as best I could. I also explained honestly why I didn't want to be involved in a guessing game. If that's not good enough for you, so be it.

The facts as I understand them are that you did your homework, compared several pianos and dealerships, and made an informed decision. Whether that decision would have been mine or anyone else's is irrelevant. I have never advised anyone here to buy any specific piano or piano brand. I have sometimes suggested a piano to throw into the mix for the purpose of comparison, but I'm not selling anything here. Whatever your choice was, I'm confident it was the best for you and I hope it serves you well.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#342866 - 12/04/08 12:36 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13962
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
So...how does one choose a piano? By touch, tone, appearance (quoting Fogvillelad), or is there something else operating at a subconscious level that pulls one towards certain brands, countries of origin, pedigree? Putting aside for a second the whole debate about Chinese/Indonesian piano longevity, why would one choose one brand over another?
I'm not sure if it is always a matter of 'brand'

Few years ago I had a particular shopper, a very good jazz pianist [no, not you.. ;\) ] who actually was a well to do real estate agent who had visited us as all other dealers on many occasions, never finding "his" piano seemingly anywhere.

I once asked him exactly the question you asked.

His answer has stuck in my mind ever since:

"It's not about the piano, it's about myself.
The piano has to be a direct extension of myself, feeding back my playing music back into my gut.
I'm getting the input with some, output with some others, but hardly ever both"

And then he went on:

"Except on this one". [Sauter]

"But I don't deserve this one"

With this he dieappeared into the great unkonwn.

Few years later I found by sheer coincidence his orbituary in the local paper......

Norbert \:o
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#342867 - 12/04/08 01:05 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
turandot, what is the point of starting a thread if not to get people talking of something one finds interesting? Calling me a ringmaster or whatnot doesn't really make sense given that in this thread I never said at any point that I was going to reveal publically what I bought. But for those that asked, they now know, and for whatever their personal reasons for asking, I didn't withhold the information.

As for this thread, what I would like to point out to those currently shopping for a piano is that it may be extremely difficult to avoid prejudice towards a piano, or group of pianos, or country of origin because it appears that not only does one get bias from the dealers (because it is their job to sell pianos, and that is sometimes part of the business) but to come to a public forum like this and to get that dealer bias multiplied by all of the happy customers that frequent piano world can be a bit too persuasive.

Maybe what my plea is, is for those that love their pianos (and believe it or not, I'm falling in love, but not there yet): maybe it isn't necessary to sell your piano to others by saying how much you love it; nor is it necessary to say why you didn't choose another. I think the second part is the most crucial since this is what starts odd little rivalries between competing interests, and it seems the most vocal usually win out.

And to be fair, I do recognize that many on this forum are very quick to congratulate new buyers of pianos, regardless of brand. But what seems to balance that is defense of ones purchase, and then the counterattacks and such.

Before I came to piano world I didn't realize how much brand loyalty there was. I've played on hundreds of pianos in my life and it never occurred to me that any brand was supposed to be better than any other, or for that matter any brand supposed to be any worse. So, in a way I was lucky that I could go out and choose (within my budget) a piano that I found "spoke to me." However, I was at times in my search very torn between what I wanted to believe, and what I could actually hear and feel. Ultimately the piano I chose was probably the right one, but I am left with doubts, and I think these doubts never would have been there had it not been for the strong opinions that I have read on this forum.

So, if any of you are still reading, does any of this ring true to you? Have you altered your opinion/choice of piano based on what you have read, and if so, do you believe it was because the information was truly accurate, unbiased, without agenda, and wholeheartedly genuine?
_________________________
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#342868 - 12/04/08 02:35 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3635
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by newguyonforum:

So, if any of you are still reading, does any of this ring true to you? Have you altered your opinion/choice of piano based on what you have read, and if so, do you believe it was because the information was truly accurate, unbiased, without agenda, and wholeheartedly genuine? [/b]
I think that's a great question.
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#342869 - 12/04/08 03:22 AM Re: Piano bias. Bad. No. Bad.
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
As for this thread, what I would like to point out to those currently shopping for a piano is that it may be extremely difficult to avoid prejudice towards a piano, or group of pianos, or country of origin because it appears that not only does one get bias from the dealers (because it is their job to sell pianos, and that is sometimes part of the business) but to come to a public forum like this and to get that dealer bias multiplied by all of the happy customers that frequent piano world can be a bit too persuasive.
New guy,

I'm still reading. BTW, do you still feel like a new guy? \:D If you get kicked to the curb enough, you'll feel like a seasoned veteran.

I don't know why you are appealing to me specifically in your posts. I don't think I was alone in expressing the feeling that things were becoming a bit drawn out. Anyway, thanks for the attention.

I can't say that I've been hampered by others' biases here. I read selectively. When a thread is started that trumpets "The Search For...", "The quest begins", or the swoon threads "I'm in love with my .......", I don't even read. We all have our own perspective on pianos. Mine is unemotional. To me music is emotional. Pianos are not. For that reason I never miss a Keith Kerman post. I like his cold-blooded analysis.

I have bought a couple of acoustics since I've been here, actually three but one was a gift.
The first (a Nordiska 50" vertical) I supplied the expected new-piano-with-photos post and stated that the piano was a serviceable instrument, a compromise that fit my budget and needs. I proceeded to give a detailed list of its specific strengths and weaknesses. I doubt if many people rushed out to buy one. \:D I think it's more likely that some people wondered "Why the hell did you buy it?" \:D

The second and third I didn't even bother to mention. Those were both Petrofs. I'm quite pleased with the one that was for me, but I didn't want to read well-meaning compliments on decor or on a picture over the piano, or suggestions for a rug on the floor, etc. etc, that seem to accompany the posting of pictures. I didn't want to work up a detailed inventory of strengths and weaknesses either. I would have felt an obligation to do that for the precise reason that I don't want to paint a false picture for anyone reading here. Finally, the culture here calls for something approaching matrimonial bliss from a new piano owner. \:D This is completely foreign to me.

My own bugaboo over the years is forming dislikes (biases if you will) against brands of instruments that I encountered in the field. Most of the time these pianos are not what they could be, and it's not good to base opinions of a brand on how poorly its specimens in the field have been tended to.

I have to admit that now you have piqued my curiousity. On the one hand, you have said you are falling in love. Big turnoff for me. \:D On the other hand, it seems you are a bit fearful of being assailed for your choice. I'm very sympathetic to that. Surely it can't be that bad...can it? \:D Also, I'm wondering what piano a band director would choose. I won't be sending a PM, but if you spill the beans here, I'll be sure not to miss it. Whatever it is, enjoy it and enjoy the time you put in here. Categories (or compartments as I prefer to think of them) are only tiers to those who want them to be.
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