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So...how does one choose a piano? By touch, tone, appearance (quoting Fogvillelad), or is there something else operating at a subconscious level that pulls one towards certain brands, countries of origin, pedigree? Putting aside for a second the whole debate about Chinese/Indonesian piano longevity, why would one choose one brand over another?
What another thread revealed (to me, at least) was that when one doesn't have the opportunity to see a piano but can here it being played, guessing its country of origin proves to be extremely difficult, but when one "knows" how a piano should sound because of its brand then certain assumptions are then made about why it cannot be as good as others from more established piano building countries.

So, does anyone choose to share what made them avoid certain pianos and choose the one they did?

I think it is a little bit like choosing a partner - establish what you can afford at the most (with this I don't mean the "initial budget" that few people stick to anyhow, but the absolute limit), then play as many pianos within that range as you manage. You'll know which one is "the one" when you play it (at least I did -- any other instruments after that were more or less for confirming that the first impression was the correct one).

I don't think the preference of a brand, country of origin etc. occurs in subconscious level. Somehow, these factors do play a part in resale value and sign of prestige.

Brands are influencing the resale value strongly, IMHO. If going by Larry Fine's ranking, a Young Chang Platinum is of the same group with a Yamaha C. But, a YC can never be sold at a price same with Yamaha C given both of them are in the same condition, same ages etc. Of course, the price might be influenced by the original price bought, but on resale market, Yamaha surely has a wide market compared to a YC.
In short, brands plays a part in reselling by commanding higher prices and wider market.

If you are given the same money to buy one of the following pianos -at the same price-, will you get a:
1. Shigeru Kawai 9', or
2. Kawai 9'?
For the same money, I believe many people will go for Shigeru Kawai. Don't forget Kawai concert grand is also handcrafted and I believe the difference in performance level will be very small (Disclaimer: It's my guess, I have no experiences on either of them.).
Why do people opt for the Shigeru? Because it represents sign of prestige.
(Anyway, if one could let us know the technical difference between the SK-EX and normal EX, perhaps this example can become useless.)

Why Young Chang wants to have a Albert Weber in which the pianos are identical at all?
Imagine you have friends visiting your house, given that you are very confident to impress your friends with the piano, will you prefer to let your friend to see a Young Chang or Albert Weber on the fallboard?

In my own dilemma, I am avoiding some stencil brands even if it's from Hailun. I feel that the resale value has played a part for me to avoid the stencils. Other people may have other reasons to avoid stencils. And of course, if Hailun is becoming the next Yamaha in piano industry, then the Hailun brand name can be a sign of prestige as well.

In my case the instrument had to fullfill my needs and expectations. It did not matter which brand. So, I auditioned many different brands, and let each instrument speak to me.

This being my 6th grand - I have owned European and Japanese brands, which unfortunately met with demise under my hands i knew exactly what I wanted in a piano. And it was.....

Tone
Touch
Reliability
and......
a certain connection with the instrument which is soooo rare.

So auditioned piano after piano - and 2 years later ended up with an RX6. The instrument responds to my particular style of playing. Nuf said!

Another interesting thread, Newguy.

Here is another example of what you are referring to (I think). It seems strange that a not-so-highly thought of brand can sound so nice.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/24476.html

Rick

Is this the thread where we get to find out what you bought?

Easier said than done.

I can do it more than some because I don't play an acoustic at home nearly as much as most here. In ten years on a home acoustic I will probably play the equivalent hours that some here will in one. From that I can exprapolate that the point at which a Chinese piano will collapse into a pile of sawdust and scrap metal will occur somewhat later for me. The same would hold for how often hammers might need to be voiced or the action regulated. Ability to hold a tune is another matter though.

Nevertheless, following your cue to put aside longevity concerns, I would be very leery of the piano that speaks to me in a given moment and favor the piano that can communicate what I want with the most immediacy and accuracy in its response.

I don't know enough about action geometry, lost motion, aftertouch, etc. to know why it is so, but I know that certain manufacturers produce products that are , for lack of a better word, tight. You can sense that almost nothing is lost in translation between the strike of the key and the the responding sound. I don't mean tone. That's a whole other something. Over the years I have found that I tire of any piano's tone that I live with and play with more interest, concentration, and attention to detail on someone else's.

Dynamic range would be big for me if budget were not a concern. My own experience is that most instruments that can be manipulated easily at the soft end of the range require an expenditure beyond what I feel is practical for me. So if a piano that I can afford has some of that, it's a big plus.

This is admittedly a messy answer to your question.

New guy,

I didn't respond to your other thread for several reasons.

1) I don't want to make a fool of myself.

2) I've used a small T-mike extensively. A T-mike in particular, and recording in general, can produce results that are way different from live listening and most significantly, listening while playing.

3) Any piano that would tie Prospero, J Pels, and me together (as you alluded to on your other thread) would be a piano from heck.

Oh come on, how would you three entertain yourselves one without the other?

I responded in the other thread and now know what the outcome was (nice choice). I do think it's time to make that information public (actually it's long overdue).

When I was shopping I looked for a number of things; responsive action, elegant tone and an ability for the piano to jump out of the box. In other words I wanted the capability of a big sound. I wanted to know that if I dug in the piano could give me that grand sound. It's surprising how few pianos are actually capable of doing that. It's equally important to have control of the quiet side, but I didn't find that capability to be as rare.

Maybe. But only after enough tears are shed and perhaps a bit of gnashing of teeth, etc, etc.


I am tempted to tell. Really I am. It's just that as soon as I do, peoples perceptions will automatically change about the recordings, and hence the piano in question.

Its a Brodmann.


Ok, its not. But it could've been.

But Steve, what I also wanted to avoid was a continual ad for my piano, and to justify why I bought it. I'm not sure that it is a good thing for people to keep on plugging their brands as individuals. Nor do I think its very healthy for the buying public to hear from dealers talking about why x piano is the choice to get these days. Its exactly this kind of information that perhaps clouds peoples judgements.

And besides, everyone who wanted to know already knows. A simple PM was all it took.

Newguy,

If you want to be a ringmaster, you should join the circus or host a tv talk show.

Once he names the piano, his 15 mins of fame is over...


Come on Jim...spill it...

Clearly, for most shoppers budget and size restrictions will always apply. Often there are other more powerful considerations in play.

Imagine standing in front of the paint brush display at home depot. Three choices, good, better, best. $.85, $5.95, or $15. Often a physchological battle takes place. Not worthy of the best. Too good for the cheapest. Middle ground is safe. Happens in wine selection, and lots of other purchasing decisions, even pianos.
One shopper thinks "I don't like to clean brushes, so I'll buy the cheapest and throw it away when I'm done. They might also do this on a piano choice. Another shopper might be a perfectionist and frequent painter that knows that the best brushes deliver the best finished result. They might be high end buyers in mentality if the budget does not prohibit.
When a prospect comes in and asks to be show uprights in the $4000 range I show those first, but before the interview ends I will show them the $2500 ones and the $8000 ones and guage their reaction to the choice offerings. More often than not, the shopper seeks their own level of comfort for reasons that have little to do with performance, warranty, or branding.

In addition to touch, tone and appearance, one might also consider the bouquet and taste of the piano. Does it have a pleasant or unpleasant nose? Does it taste like a fine piano should? Is there an unpleasant aftertaste?

If these qualities are still insufficient one could hire an astrologer, psychic, or matchmaker.

I kind of enjoyed Newguy’s little “guessing game”. It was interesting and fun; plus the piano recording was great as well as his playing.

Also, he gets to see how many PW members, who were informed via PM as to what the mystery piano actually is, are trustworthy in honoring his request to not reveal his secret on the forum until he was ready. I think he has found that they all are.

This is a great forum with great members (for the most part ).

Best regards,

Rickster

I like that!

Whippen boy, you need to take another look at my post… I haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about. (Thank goodness for the “edit” feature).

Rickster

To answer the original poster, for me it was the following two qualifiers... in this order:

1) American-made

2) The best value/quality for the $$$, including having no flakeboard or chipboard.

This is what opens my wallet.

Great thread, newguy...

I played piano for many years when I was young and then dropped out in my early twenties. (I've been playing guitar since then) I spent all of my practice time on an upright and had the good fortune at times to play on Tier 1 pianos such as Schimmel, Bosie and S&S. I've kept my chops up a tiny bit over the years on a (gasp) digital.

Recently, my family chipped in to help me buy a Grand. My prejudice, subconscious or not was that a grand needed to be European or American to be a "real grand". Anything Asian was just noisey furniture. I had no idea about the whole stencil branding thing. So, when I sat down at what i thought was a Euro piano (Nordiska, Palatino, Pramberger) i was dissapointed! With a little research, i found out who was making these pianos. Would a good voicing and regulation improved them? proabably, but my prejudice and the whole controversy about Chinese/Indo/Korean pianos was getting in the way.

When i sat down at the RX-2 that i eventually bought, i was blown away. I had to really look at my mindset about Asia built pianos. I have to say this was not a big jump for me since i'm half japanese. I'd love to own a Lexus or Infinity and I always loved the Yamaha guitars. I can't say that of products from the other Asian countries.

Tone, dynamic range, touch, reputation, budget and appearance were all important factors in my decision. Maybe a Samic or YC can sound every bit as good or better than my RX2, but this has not been my experience with the ones that i played.

I should also mention that I was blown away with many of the top tier pianos and I also played some that were not to my liking at all. But, these were out of my budget. And even if they were, just because they have a great name on the fallboard doesn't mean that i would like them.

Newguy - maybe your question is more about why *I* think a grand should be Euro or American?