Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Is this program TOO big?

I'm doing a couple competitions next year and here's my program.

Haydn: E flatMajor Sonata No. 62
Samuel Barber: Sonata
Frederic chopin: Sonata in B flat minor
Rachmaninoff: Concerto No. 3


I worry that my program is just an overload of big pieces. Granted, they all have intimate parts, but I just don't know. I'm thinking of maybe doing a few smaller Chopin pieces and maybe a Brahms intermezzo instead of the sonata, just to present a different character of my playing. Should I stick with my current program or do some smaller romantic pieces?? Also, any suggestions for a grouping??

From my point of view, I would say this programme is just too "massive" as a programme per se, but would your choice not depend on the competition?

Many competitions have set requirements, do they not, and would such a programme fit in with those requirements?

Apart from the Haydn, these are pretty "heavy" multi-movement works. I would much rather see one Sonata balanced by other single-movement, varied forms in the programme.

Regards,

it's ok, if there're at least 2 intermissions!

Well, they ARE certainly big pieces...

I don't have a problem that they're "big". My only worry with that program is the judges/audience's familiarity with it-- there are a LOT of great performances and recordings by a multitude of pianists of all of them.

Shooting from the hip here, but if you're going to compete with all the big "war horses", you really need to bring your 'A' game with everything, and that might still not be enough.

Great performances of some slightly different repertoire among these pillars of piano literature might do better to distinguish you from your peers in competition, fwiw.

Surely not all those pieces in one recital? Are they for different stages of the competition? Is the concerto all movements, with orchestra (or reduction on 2nd piano)?

I certainly wouldn't want to sit through all that in one go.

no no no no. They certainly wouldn't hear all the pieces in the entirety. The competition is in stages, and the concerto isn't used until the second stage. In the second stage, I would get to play for about an hour, and the judges would make cuts. In the final stage, I play the whole program.

If you play your whole programme as listed, I can't help but think that you might be criticized - or lose points - for what might be considered the lack of balance in your programme.

I'm still curious to know what the stated parameters are for this particular competition. Are contestants specifically asked to perform three Sonatas from three different time periods?

Regards,

No no no no no. The contestants are just asked to play pieces from at least three different periods. The fact that they are all sonatas is merely a coincidence.


Also, just because something is called a "sonata" doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be the same form as other sonatas from a different period. Ravel could have just as easily named "Gaspard de la nuit" "Sonata Pour le Piano." Samuel Barber's "Sonata" could have been named "Penguin !@#$." It's not a piece that is obviously in sonata form. The first movement is some variation of sonata form, but that's it.

Um...the Barber sonata most certainly is a sonata form.

In my opinion, the program is too big. But most people play programs that are too big in competitions, so your program won't seem out of place.

As much as I love the Chopin sonata, I would probably substitute a handful of smaller Brahms pieces, perhaps the Op.10 Ballades. Another option would be a handful of Chopin Preludes (his last prelude would be a very good way to end your solo portion). All IMHO of course.

I would balance out your heavy romantic stuff with a substantial baroque work. Maybe Bach's Capriccio on the Departure of a Beloved Brother (my favorite Bach piece!) or the Italian Concerto? I would keep the Barber because it extends the repetoire into the 20th century, despite the fact that I hate the piece (call me shallow).

Phone home,
Do you go to WVU? I saw you're interested in WVU football.

w scott, yes I go to WVU. Are you from West Virginia?

Kreisler, I did say that the first movement of the Barber is in some variation of sonata form, which is really more than what's required nowadays to call something a "sonata." I was just making a point since someone asked earlier why I was playing all sonatas, as though the fact that all the pieces were called "sonata" would cause my program to lack variation.

I do think you're right though, that competition programs are typically too big. I'm just worried if I take the Chopin sonata off of my program that I'll be one upped by someone. Last year, I think the winning program was something like Beethoven Op. 110, Schubert B flat major sonata, Prokofiev sonata no. 7, and the Rachmaninoff Rhapsody on a theme by Paganini.

I know that judges, if faced with two candidates who show practical equivalence in musicianship and technical capacity, will probably choose the winner based on some arbitrary factor such as the difficulty of the program as a whole.

What?!?!?!

Gaspard and Miroirs were intentionally designed to be dissmilar to standard forms. Ravel himself said that he wanted them to sound improvisatory. You could force them into forms if you tried, but it's not meant to fit any specific archetype.

On the other hand, the Barber Sonata is one of the greatest achievements in the 20th-century sonata medium. It's all clearly structured to follow the classical design, just like his Piano Concerto is. The forms are there, the architecture is there, etc. It's a really academic piece when it comes down to it, which is why I think a lot of performances of the first movement aren't convincing because it can be very clear that the performer doesn't understand the form.

As far as your program goes, I also agree that it's too much, especially since you need to play all of it at the same level in order to have a chance of getting something in a competition. I'd suggest swapping either the Chopin or Barber out for something that is a little less cliched and contrasts your other selections more.

I'm SAYING that many contemporary sonatas do NOT fit into sonata form. Some people just SLAP the name on there. For instance, my piano concerto which is in the works could just as easily be called Suite for piano and orchestra or Poem for piano and orchestra. OTHER than the first movement, Barber's sonata is bound by certain forms, but that does not necessarily mean that he absolutely HAD to call the piece a sonata.

Also, I don't see how you can call the Barber sonata "cliched." It's not played anywhere near as often as the Rachmaninoff or chopin, and it's rarely played well.

Either way I simply made that statement for the sake of getting a completely different point across and wasn't looking for an intellectual debate on the nature of sonata allegro form and its uses in 20th century repertoire.

I used the word "obviously" in my sentence because I was stating the fact hat many listeners who could easily hear the distinction between a Beethoven sonata and a non-sonata form piece could not as easily do the same with the Barber, because of its many harmonic, rhythmic, and general developmental complexities.


I'm getting way too worked up over this =o)

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - name a twentieth century piece in the standard repertoire that is called "Sonata" but is not a sonata. Composers know what that they were doing (most of the time, at least), and when they use titles like "sonata," that means that they are either continuing or adding their own idiomatic touch to the sonata tradition. Regardless of what you think, it's not a suite, it's a sonata by definition.

Again, the first movement of the Barber is in sonata form. It has an exposition with two contrasting themes, a development, a recap, a coda, and everything that fits inbetween the gaps. How can you stand to play a piece and know nothing about it?

If you don't think that this piece isn't a cliche at competitions, go to the prelims of any medium-major competition and look at the program book. It will be programmed as much as any of the competition warhorses.

Phonehome, use the EDIT BUTTON.