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#349425 - 12/27/07 09:06 PM Chopin op.10 #4
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Holy Mollie!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ-NAgDpRVs

Quarter=around 192.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

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#349426 - 12/27/07 09:08 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
_________________________
Sam

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#349427 - 12/27/07 09:27 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
Speed is only a fraction of Richter's talent. Escaping from a sack and hand-cuffs is another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDUTTRGOJdE

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#349428 - 12/27/07 10:46 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
 Quote:
Originally posted by Debussy20:
Speed is only a fraction of Richter's talent. Escaping from a sack and hand-cuffs is another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDUTTRGOJdE [/b]
LOL I had never seen that before - thanks for the laugh... \:\)
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#349429 - 12/28/07 02:53 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8903
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Ah... this has been posted before. But of course nice to be reminded of it.

Our more conservative members -not in short supply- will be up in arms about the excessive speed. Not "musical", eh?

But Richter, one of the greatest pianists ever? Reminds me of Ignaz Friedman who was once asked why he played the Chopin Etudes so fast: "Because I can."

Care to argue the point with them? One of the many glories of the Chopin Etudes must certainly be that they are completely musical at any speed. Part and parcel.

Chopin knew what he was up to. He was nobody's fool.
_________________________
Jason

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#349430 - 12/28/07 04:08 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Fleeting Visions Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1501
Loc: Champaign, IL
I am of the opinion that Richter's most absurd recordings are far from polite and often feel unmusical just by virtue of insanity.
_________________________
Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon

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#349431 - 12/29/07 08:50 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Robert Kenessy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Enebyberg Sweden
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Our more conservative members -not in short supply- will be up in arms about the excessive speed. Not "musical", eh?
[/b]
I regard myself as a more conservative member, but I still think the Richter etude is great. i actually started yesterday on this etude as a prelimainary good new years resolution to play something else than Beethoven and Bartók. Actually upon close analysis of the other youtube video, I think Tsjaikovski may also be within my reach after all.
_________________________
Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.

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#349432 - 12/29/07 09:13 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Age_of_Anxiety Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 273
Loc: home
A mentor of mine, Dr. Bouri told be that, when teaching a theory class at Interlochen about 20 years ago, a TEN year old played him op. 10 #4

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#349433 - 12/29/07 11:05 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 728
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Thanks for the laugh, Debussy20. I'm a huge Monty Python fan, but I've never seen this bit before.

And, by the way, the Richter video is really quite scary.

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#349434 - 12/31/07 04:36 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7892
A ten year old playing op. 10, no. 4? That's sort of creepy and somehow - oh, I don't know the right word - musically inappropriate, maybe.

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#349435 - 01/01/08 05:33 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
CherryCoke Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 531
Inappropriate how? It's not a deep piece. Difficult, yes (I am studying it myself now, and I ain't 10). But if he can play it, more power to him.

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#349436 - 01/01/08 05:49 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
pianist.ame Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1166
Loc: Singapore
I agree, this etude is more about technicality more than anything else.

I don't like Richter's version, it's too fast for my taste but oh yes, it's very impressive technically.
_________________________
Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata

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#349437 - 01/01/08 10:09 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Alexander Hanysz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 141
Loc: Adelaide, South Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by daveferris:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ-NAgDpRVs

Quarter=around 192. [/b]
!!!

Crazy, but certainly exciting! Just 1:36--for comparison, I have CDs of Cortot, Pollini, Bereszovsy and Ashkenazy playing this piece: they all take 2 minutes or more.

I find that I don't always "approve" of Richter's interpretations, but they're never dull :-)

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#349438 - 01/02/08 12:10 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8903
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Hanysz:
I find that I don't always "approve" of Richter's interpretations, but they're never dull :-)
Not for nothing is Richter the absolute Titan[/b] of the piano.

Even his Schubert D960... take it or leave it. Yet his courage and conviction in observing the 1st mov't repeat... perhaps the blood runs too fast in our day and age, we seem to be conditioned for instant gratification.

And thus, grand and profound works such as Bach's St. Matthew Passion, Wagner's Parsifal, Bruckner's 8th Symphony and Elgar's The Kingdom are casualties of impatience.

Rather a sorry commentary. Listen to Richter in the Schubert. But do not do so if there are other pressing engagements, okay?
_________________________
Jason

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#349439 - 01/02/08 12:29 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
argerichfan, to me that repeat is essential! Unlike Brendel, I absolutely detest anyone who doesn't take the repeat. The Italian Symphony's first movement is another great example. And again, I agree with you about the other works, especially Parsifal. One must be in the proper frame of mind to properly listen to those pieces!
P.S.: I listened to Bruckner's 8th in its original, unrevised state last night. Wonderful! \:\)
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#349440 - 01/02/08 12:38 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Cheeto717 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 702
Loc: Pennsylvania
What do you guys think is the hardest Chopin Etude?

I think it was Horowitz who said he thought the hardest was the op 10 no 1.
_________________________
Working On:
Bach: Partita No. 6
Beethoven: Op. 26
Brahms: Op. 120
Chopin: Op. 10

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#349441 - 01/02/08 09:46 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
I've only played the first two, but looking at the scores of all of them I would think the rolled chords one (op.10 no.11 I think).
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#349442 - 01/02/08 10:52 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8903
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Sorry, continuing off-topic :rolleyes:

 Quote:
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
... to me that repeat is essential! Unlike Brendel, I absolutely detest anyone who doesn't take the repeat.
Brendel, who is always fascinating to read, wrote a brilliant defense of why he ignores the 1st mov't repeat.

But I still don't agree with him...
_________________________
Jason

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#349443 - 01/02/08 11:32 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Fleeting Visions Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1501
Loc: Champaign, IL
Schumann wrote that they are of "heavenly lengths".
_________________________
Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon

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#349444 - 01/02/08 12:11 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cheeto717:
What do you guys think is the hardest Chopin Etude?

I think it was Horowitz who said he thought the hardest was the op 10 no 1. [/b]
Check out this thread. xtraheat's and drudged's lists are quite informative.
(See, I CAN be on topic sometimes!)
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#349445 - 01/02/08 07:03 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7892
 Quote:
Originally posted by SPS:
Inappropriate how? It's not a deep piece. Difficult, yes (I am studying it myself now, and I ain't 10). But if he can play it, more power to him. [/b]
Well, I guess if it's not a deep piece to you, then it's not. But to me, it's musically quite intense, and too much so for a ten year old to understand (I hope, for the kid's sake).

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#349446 - 01/02/08 08:06 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cheeto717:
What do you guys think is the hardest Chopin Etude?

I think it was Horowitz who said he thought the hardest was the op 10 no 1. [/b]
Probably so. They all present their difficulties. I do, though, disagree with an earlier post that Op. 10 #4 is all technical--no. There is much music in this indeed. I've never timed mine at YouTube--now I'm curious. I am on tour, and my laptop's sound card is messed--no sound. If anyone cares to time mine, feel free to go to YouTube, type my last name in and the Op. 10#4 should be a choice.
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#349447 - 01/02/08 08:11 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13797
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Mr. Biegel's clocks in at 1:58, and it's fantastic!
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#349448 - 01/02/08 08:37 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
Richter himself was appalled at some of the speeds he had taken earlier in life, especially with the Liszt etudes (see Notebooks). Though apparently he played the Chopin that fast only to show off.

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#349449 - 01/02/08 09:01 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
FLMikeATT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 106
Loc: Port St. Lucie
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Op. 10 #2, and she\'s 16. [/b]
10 year old plays Chopin etude 25/12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4td_Zn6G3U

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#349450 - 01/03/08 06:57 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
showbiz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 11
Loc: UK
Bloody hell!!!

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#349451 - 01/03/08 01:32 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
Arrau was seven when he was already playing Liszt's Gnomenreigen publicly.

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#349452 - 01/04/08 04:35 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
CherryCoke Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 531
 Quote:
Originally posted by wr:
 Quote:
Originally posted by SPS:
Inappropriate how? It's not a deep piece. Difficult, yes (I am studying it myself now, and I ain't 10). But if he can play it, more power to him. [/b]
Well, I guess if it's not a deep piece to you, then it's not. But to me, it's musically quite intense, and too much so for a ten year old to understand (I hope, for the kid's sake). [/b]
I never said it wasn't intense, it certainly is! A brooding firestorm if there ever was one. I simply wouldn't place it in the category of "life experience" pieces, like say, Beethoven opus 111, or late Brahms, etc etc. As Jeffrey pointed out, there's much music here, but I don't find it to be esoteric.

If I'm missing something,please fill me in (before my teacher does, haha!) \:\)

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#349453 - 01/04/08 11:00 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Sorry, continuing off-topic :rolleyes:

 Quote:
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
... to me that repeat is essential! Unlike Brendel, I absolutely detest anyone who doesn't take the repeat.
Brendel, who is always fascinating to read, wrote a brilliant defense of why he ignores the 1st mov't repeat.

But I still don't agree with him... [/b]
The more I listen to Brendel (both his performances and his writings), the more I find him insufferable. The musical analysis that contributes to someone's interpretation is very important, but surely it must result in a performance that is effective on its own terms. Richter's interpretation for me is totally compelling, without his having written an article about the piece \:\)

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#349454 - 01/07/08 12:35 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4
keithmusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/07
Posts: 129
Loc: Atlanta, GA
The Chopin Opus 10 #4 Etude has to be one of the hardest with it's multiple double sharps. To see it played live is an amazing treat.

Keith
http://www.keithphillips.net
_________________________
Keith Phillips

www.keithphillips.net
Piano technique for all levels
www.keithphillips.net/AdvancedPianoSecrets.htm

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