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#353243 - 12/17/04 12:11 PM omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Mikester Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 1254
Loc: Minneesooota
Transcendental Etude #4, Mazeppa. I bow down.

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#353244 - 12/17/04 02:34 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
rach3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 111
keep practicing. ive never studied it, but i gaurantee you that its nowhere near as hard as it looks/sounds. and make sure you use 24/24 on (i think) all of the triple stave parts.

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#353245 - 12/17/04 02:38 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Mikester Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 1254
Loc: Minneesooota
I would love to hear from someone who has performed this piece in public.

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#353246 - 12/17/04 02:42 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1476
Loc: New York City
lol, i myself have tried it...proper fingering is key, and practicing slowly is really the only way to get those thirds up to speed. I recommend Arrau's recording of it, Its a must have.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
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#353247 - 12/17/04 02:52 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Thracozaag Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 1981
Loc: Salt Lake City
Did you do Liszt's fingerings or did you cheat, heh.

koji (STSD)
_________________________
"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/

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#353248 - 12/17/04 02:52 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
Yeah, Arrau does a fantastic job with the Liszt Etudes (and Magaloff more so on the Pagets)

I've tried it and it was quite fun but I wouldnt go past first page.

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#353249 - 12/17/04 02:52 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Thracozaag Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 1981
Loc: Salt Lake City
And Cziffra pretty much owns this piece.

koji (STSD)
_________________________
"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/

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#353250 - 12/17/04 03:05 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Mikester Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 1254
Loc: Minneesooota
It sounds from their recordings like Cziffra doesn't use any pedal and everyone else uses a lot of pedal.

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#353251 - 12/17/04 03:07 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Anima Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/03
Posts: 206
Loc: Belgium
That's because Cziffra was so damn nuts.. lol. It has its own charm, though I think it would only work for Cziffra.

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#353252 - 12/17/04 05:10 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1476
Loc: New York City
when i first attempted it (btw i haven't gone past the 2nd page) i played the thirds with my left hand only. Its quite possible to achieve the proper speed with just the left hand, but accuracy is tougher though attainable. Then after a long break i re-learned it using the hand crossing that liszt indicates.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

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#353253 - 12/17/04 08:54 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
thepianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 39
I tend to cheat... I'm probably going to relearn it

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#353254 - 12/17/04 10:06 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mikester:
It sounds from their recordings like Cziffra doesn't use any pedal and everyone else uses a lot of pedal. [/b]
He's probably the only one who can pull it off.

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#353255 - 12/18/04 01:19 AM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Anima:
That's because Cziffra was so damn nuts.. lol. It has its own charm, though I think it would only work for Cziffra. [/b]
Yeah, definatly. His HR6 is similar, he uses little pedal, but the octaves sound so smooth and conjunct...

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#353256 - 12/18/04 11:33 AM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Anima Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/03
Posts: 206
Loc: Belgium
Agreed, I love his HR6. His octaves are amazing, but I prefer Liszt's indications in the octave section. Cziffra pretty much does everything presto. (or -issimo)

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#353257 - 12/18/04 11:52 AM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Max W:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Anima:
That's because Cziffra was so damn nuts.. lol. It has its own charm, though I think it would only work for Cziffra. [/b]
Yeah, definatly. His HR6 is similar, he uses little pedal, but the octaves sound so smooth and conjunct... [/b]
I think I recall hearing that he "cheated" on that section. I don't know why, maybe he prefered the sound but I recall hearing that he alternated octaves and single notes instead of all octaves.

I'll see if I can find who said it, they may be BSin...

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#353258 - 12/18/04 12:31 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Max W:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Anima:
That's because Cziffra was so damn nuts.. lol. It has its own charm, though I think it would only work for Cziffra. [/b]
Yeah, definatly. His HR6 is similar, he uses little pedal, but the octaves sound so smooth and conjunct... [/b]
I think I recall hearing that he "cheated" on that section. I don't know why, maybe he prefered the sound but I recall hearing that he alternated octaves and single notes instead of all octaves.

I'll see if I can find who said it, they may be BSin... [/b]
Im fairly certain that it's BS. ;\)

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#353259 - 12/18/04 01:00 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Anima Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/03
Posts: 206
Loc: Belgium
I've heard that too a while ago, I doubt he'd do that. In the video I've seen he doesnt skip any notes, just misses some but they're hardly hearable. He plays them all with 4 - 5 alternating in the upper note of the octave, it looks like a spider crawling over the keyboard, amazing to see.

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#353260 - 12/18/04 01:05 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
iamcanadian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1893
Loc: Canada
I'm pretty sure that Cziffra does skip every second note with the thumb.
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#353261 - 12/18/04 01:53 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Ted2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 790
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I like the effect of using little pedal (on the melody notes mostly, I think) with Mazeppa; a clear, crisp sound in the figurations seems to suit the image. It took me years to realise that because the effect is somewhat rowdy and bland in parts, it isn't necessary to play it heavily and strenuously. On the contrary, I find that maintaining a certain lightness helps conserve energy and also adds to the rhythmic force. It also took me a long time to realise that different parts of it need different touches and finger positions. When I was young I kept on trying to play all of it in the same way, and found it very tiring.
_________________________
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

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#353262 - 12/18/04 02:11 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Anima Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/03
Posts: 206
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
I'm pretty sure that Cziffra does skip every second note with the thumb. [/b]
I checked my video, he DOES play each octave, he doesn't cheat at all..

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#353263 - 12/18/04 06:54 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
ylisztruusi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 22
Loc: British Columbia, Canada.
Are any of the Liszt's Trancendental etudes easy? lol
_________________________
Music presents at once the intensity and the expression of feeling... the intelligible essence of feeling, capable of being apprehended by our senses. It permeates them like like a ray, like a mist, like a spirit, and fills our soul." -Franz Liszt

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#353264 - 12/18/04 06:59 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5360
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
I'm pretty sure that Cziffra does skip every second note with the thumb. [/b]
Yup.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#353265 - 12/18/04 07:42 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
rach3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 111
wow then he's a loser

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#353266 - 12/18/04 07:57 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
iamcanadian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1893
Loc: Canada
Not really. It's quite a bit harder the way he plays it.
_________________________
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#353267 - 12/18/04 08:07 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Goldberg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: U.S.
In the HR6? How can you tell? He certainly doesn't in the video I have of him, at least through most of the octaves section. I'm not too good at figuring that stuff out on recordings, but from what I can tell he doesn't do it on my CD either.

I'm not irritated or anything, I'm just curious to know whether or not it's true and, if so, how can you tell? I also heard that a long time ago and it's been "bugging" me in the back of my mind ever since.

edit: hmmm, ok, so I feel kind of stupid now. Like I should have done before posting my question, I went back and watched a little more closely and then tried playing a few measures of the rhapsody on the keyboard and now I'm starting to believe it. I'm not sure I agree that the note-skipping in the thumb makes it any harder, though...it actually seemed a little bit easier to me. But, then, I couldn't play it anywhere near his speed/clarity/etc.

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#353268 - 12/20/04 12:40 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Mikester Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 1254
Loc: Minneesooota
is it possible that Cziffra uses the sostenuto? I mean, on paper it sounds like sostenuto might sound the best fit by sustaining the big melody line and allowing the staccato notes in between to be played without pedal.

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#353269 - 12/20/04 02:47 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
I'm not even gonna comment on what I've read. Disgrace to da SDC. Icicic.

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#353270 - 12/20/04 02:50 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Mikester Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 1254
Loc: Minneesooota
wha?

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#353271 - 12/20/04 02:51 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Anima:
 Quote:
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
I'm pretty sure that Cziffra does skip every second note with the thumb. [/b]
I checked my video, he DOES play each octave, he doesn't cheat at all.. [/b]
Dats rite

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#353272 - 12/20/04 02:54 PM Re: omigosh Mazeppa is hard
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
Sorry that wasnt directed to you Mikester.

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