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#354455 - 08/04/05 04:09 AM 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
If say you were to rate the difficulty of Beethoven's 'Moonlight' Sonata, 1st mov. at about 4 or 5 out of 10, what would the 3rd movement be? It sounds harder but looking at the score it doesn't look too bad. Anybody got any idea?

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354456 - 08/04/05 06:06 AM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
Frungy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 283
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Do you mean technically? On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give the 1st movement a 2, the 2nd movement a 3, and the 3rd movement a 6. It's a lot of notes, but most of the runs are intuitive with many patterns and unawkward fingerings.

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#354457 - 08/04/05 08:28 AM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
Yeah, I agree with that, the third movement is very pianistic. And as you said in the first post, it sounds hard, but its very managable.

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#354458 - 08/04/05 11:48 AM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
I agree with Frungy and Max. The movement is not that difficult if worked on carefully. There is nothing weird about it as far as fingerings, arpeggios, etc. The only part that really bothers me is the modulating section on the third bar down since my fingers are not as independent as they should be, and I get stuck.

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#354459 - 08/04/05 12:05 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
Thanks for all your replies guys. I gave it a bash through and it isn't that bad. I guess speed is gonna be my only obstacle.

\:\(

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354460 - 08/04/05 12:23 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by ***musical princess***:
Thanks for all your replies guys. I gave it a bash through and it isn't that bad. I guess speed is gonna be my only obstacle.

\:\(

x [/b]
Good luck...and take it easy. As another thread asks about starting slow, I suggest the same here.

Smile and enjoy the journey.

John \:D
_________________________
Nothing.

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#354461 - 08/04/05 12:30 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
Thanks for your words of wisdom, John. You know, i don't know why I do it to myself. I've already taken on too much as it is, so to take on another piece is kindof stupid but i just can't help it. I can't get enough! \:D

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354462 - 08/04/05 01:36 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
Caroline,

Taking on too much is easy to do with music. To me it's like opening up a big box of chocolates or going to a gourmet shop. The problem is which one do you choose, because everything tastes so good!

John \:\)
_________________________
Nothing.

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#354463 - 08/04/05 01:48 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5375
Loc: Philadelphia
Hey, princess... don't worry about speed. It comes on its own...especially with this particular movement. You'll see. ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#354464 - 08/04/05 02:02 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
John, that has to be the best analogy for chosing music i have ever heard! I must have about 5 or 6 pieces on the go at the moment and thats not even including the stuff im doing for my exam! I wonder if a persons lifetime would ever be long enough to play every piece of music ever written?

I hope so, D. It sounds amazing and i'd love to be able to play it at tempo. Too bad i probably never will. Speed has never been my forte.

\:\)

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354465 - 08/04/05 02:14 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5375
Loc: Philadelphia
There are far too many commpositions for such a task. There isn't even enough time in one lifetime to play every piece of music ever written during your lifetime, let alone during everyone else's. ;\)

And seriously, don't worry about the Moonlight. It's one of the easiest pieces I've ever tried to play fast. It just happens.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#354466 - 08/04/05 02:19 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
Maybe if you could sight read like Liszt then you could. \:D

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354467 - 08/04/05 02:32 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5375
Loc: Philadelphia
I'm not the greatest sight-reader, but I managed to learn the 2nd and 3rd movements of the Moonlight (plus memorization of them) in three days. From being blasted for such a claim by several other posters, I take it to mean that was pretty fast learning. It'd be nice to read like Liszt...then I wouldn't get so damned frustrated. But even then, I don't think there's enough time in a day...unless you don't sleep. I've gotten better at not sleeping over the years...maybe that's the key? :p ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#354468 - 08/04/05 02:36 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
Holy moley!! Three days - you must be a heck of a pianist! Wish I could do that. Maybe i should try sleeping less and playing more. \:D

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354469 - 08/04/05 02:54 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5375
Loc: Philadelphia
I'm not good enough yet... my only advantage is that I learn quickly. I didn't take the piano seriously until this year, and I've only been studying with a serious teacher for about a month. We'll see where I am a year from now. I'll give myself that long before I rule myself out as a good pianist.

But no sleep doesn't help. It ruins concentration. This summer, I've made unbelievable leaps and bounds, both in my writing and in my playing. And I got 10 hours of sleep every night, except for every 3rd or 4th night when I wouldn't really sleep at all... it's sort of a weird rhythm, really. :p ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#354470 - 08/04/05 03:02 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
I'll have to try it - see if it has the same effects on me.

\:D

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354471 - 08/04/05 03:07 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5375
Loc: Philadelphia
Good luck... it drives me nuts. But do sleep as often as your body will let you. Sleep deprivation deprives the brain of its own defragmentation period, so that you wake up with a still-screwed-up hard drive. ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#354472 - 08/04/05 03:15 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
That can't be good. I don't think i could do it anyway. I like my bed to much so purposely trying to avoid it could prove difficult. ;\)

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354473 - 08/04/05 04:13 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
ignorant kid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 333
Loc: Poquoson, Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Derulux:
Good luck... it drives me nuts. But do sleep as often as your body will let you. Sleep deprivation deprives the brain of its own defragmentation period, so that you wake up with a still-screwed-up hard drive. ;\) [/b]
lol I'm just the opposite-I work better with a little less sleep than I like. When I sleep for long periods of time (10+ hrs) I get up feeling really crappy and can't work/concentrate well until i've been up and around for several hours. Anyone else the same way?

As for the 27/2/3, I'm currently working on it (wish I could say I wasn't having a hard time with it). Technically, it' a beast. Even with all of the repeating themes and patternized phrases, there are a lot of notes and it's hard to get the whole thing up to speed. Musically speaking, IMO I think it outweighs the technicality of the piece, with all of it's phrasing, pedalling, dynamics and especially the harmonics to be worked out. But aside from all of that, I think it's pretty straight-forward and managable if all the elements of it's technicality and musicality are combined with careful consideration.

Good luck...It'll come with time ;\)
_________________________
-Carl

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#354474 - 08/04/05 04:36 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
Thanks Carl - I hope so. \:\)

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354475 - 08/04/05 05:35 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
jpw101 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 631
Loc: UK
It's very hard to get it up to speed whilst observing all the dynamics and articulation markings. The faster you go, the harder it gets to execute them cleanly.

Some things I had particular trouble with:

* Playing bars 9-13 in tempo - I tended to ease up on the speed a touch here. It wasn't obvious when I was playing, but hearing a recording of myself made it extremely so. The right hand part really puts the brakes on, when you hit that it's like driving off road into a muddy field.

* The octave trills (or turns, in practice) are far from easy if you can only manage a 9th. Still not happy with these!

* The A major runs in b.36-39 with the syncopated chords really threw me when I was learning the notes. It's those offbeat left hand quavers that did it - hands separately was fine, but putting them together was tricky. They just kept falling in the wrong place, especially at speed.

* A couple of bars in the development section - the [f#, F#, G#-D#, F#] alberti pattern that appears in the right hand for just one bar is super-tough for a small stretch. Very uncomfortable, I have to change the fingering to make it even playable at half speed, never mind full. And the staccato chord sequence a few bars on is tough to articulate cleanly and evenly at speed.

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#354476 - 08/04/05 06:04 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
prokofiev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 388
Loc: California
I play best when I'm kind of asleep. If I suddenly wake up, I'll mess up \:D
_________________________
prok

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#354477 - 08/04/05 08:59 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
In my contemplation on starting this movement I posted asking advice of anyone who had played it. I was one of the posters who blasted derulux for his apparent inflated claim. For which, I now appologize. This movement definately is not as hard as it sounds, but I don't like using the word easy to describe any Beethoven. Jpw has brought the turbulent sections to your attention.
_________________________
JOHN

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#354478 - 08/05/05 02:28 AM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
Thankyou everyone, specially jpw - i guess i'll just have to start working hard on those bits.

\:D

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#354479 - 08/05/05 02:36 AM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5375
Loc: Philadelphia
 Quote:
Originally posted by bach enthusiast:
In my contemplation on starting this movement I posted asking advice of anyone who had played it. I was one of the posters who blasted derulux for his apparent inflated claim. For which, I now appologize. This movement definately is not as hard as it sounds, but I don't like using the word easy to describe any Beethoven. Jpw has brought the turbulent sections to your attention. [/b]
Did you really? I had completely forgot that! Hmm...back to opposite sides of the line we go! :p

There's nothing to apologize for. I thought it was extremely difficult before I started playing it, too. I guess, after playing it, I forgot that. ;\)


I think the biggest "catch" points are the octave trills, this specific measure around 150-something where the left hand plays b-B-c#-B and the right hand plays c#f-C#-G#-C# (at least, I think that's the right hand) for a measure, and maintaining the intensity in the right hand that the left hand had when the melody goes to the left hand. Other than that, if you have the technique, it should come fairly quickly as the chord structure is pretty basic. \:\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#354480 - 08/05/05 04:30 AM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
abc1234 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 3
I think that the moonlight sonata is overated. It is an amazing sonata but it's nowhere near as hard as it sounds. Try some of Chopin's Scherzos and Ballades.

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#354481 - 08/05/05 10:44 AM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeACMS:
I think that the moonlight sonata is overated. It is an amazing sonata but it's nowhere near as hard as it sounds. Try some of Chopin's Scherzos and Ballades. [/b]
I agree with you. The thing that made the Moonlight famous it the first movement. Most common folk don't even know there are other parts to the piece. To me, it's just another great early piano sonata by Beethoven. Tonally he's advancing, but still this one, like the others are typical of the period, and is very much like those from Haydn and Clementi.

I too live within the realm of Chopin. I play mostly his Nocturnes, Polonaise and Ballades, and recently his Preludes. Each one is a sweet morsel, or a complete meal in its self.

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#354482 - 08/05/05 11:05 AM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
kcoul058 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 974
Loc: UBC, Vancouver, Canada
If you need help with any specific part princess, let us know, many of us have already done this movement since it is so popular!

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#354483 - 08/05/05 02:55 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody?
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
Thankyou for your support everyone. Gosh, everyone is so friendly! You are all such wonderful people!!!

GeorgeACMS - i'm in the middle of learning Chopin's first ballade. Finding it inconceivably hard but i'm loving every minute of it.

kcoul058 - Thankyou! I'm sure you'll be hearing from me soon enough. :p

\:D

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#1446830 - 05/30/10 07:18 PM Re: 'Moonlight '- 3rd mov. Anybody? [Re: ***musical princess***]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2667
Loc: Netherlands
I'm amazed at so many downgradings of this really difficult piece, yes, anyone could play any c-sharp-minor-arpeggio, but who could play it pianissimo, fortissimo, and otherwise? The jumps shouldn't take any time, the whole movement has no moment of repose, yeah, the obvious one, but the balance between l/r hand is so important, the sheer sweep of the music should be so uninstrumental, by the way, the 2nd movement is far more difficult than general opinion dictates, this is a monumentally underrated masterpiece, not to be handled by anyone with a liking for the 1st movement's 4 1st bars or so.
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Mussorgski tableaux d'une exposition/Ravel miroirs

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