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#357056 - 02/01/05 12:36 AM Re: Is music proof of God?
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Virginia, USA
Hee, hee, not a winnable argument in sight here, and I usually don't bother. Sometimes though I feel I have to say something, because silence is assent, and I don't want it to appear that the American YEC position is universal. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," in the quaint KJV version, should be interpreted today as an obligation to fight ignorance and superstition. You can probably guess I'm not a literalist.

Here, Augustine said it better than I can:

"39. Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the­ earth, the
heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the mot­ion and orbit of
the stars and even their size and relative positions, about ­the predictable
eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and th­e seasons, about
the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this­ knowledge he
holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, i­t is a
disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Chr­istian,
presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking non­sense on these
topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an emba­rrassing
situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Chris­tian and laugh
it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant indiv­idual is
derided, but that people outside the household of faith thin­k our sacred
writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those ­for whose
salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticiz­ed and rejected
as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a fie­ld in which they
themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish op­inions about our
books, how are they going to believe those books in matters ­concerning the
resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the ­kingdom of
heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods o­n facts which
they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of­ reason?
Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring ­untold trouble
and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in o­ne of their
mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those wh­o are not bound
by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend th­eir utterly
foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to ca­ll upon Holy
Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passage­s which they
think support their position, although "they understand neit­her what they
say nor the things about which they make assertion."
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#357057 - 02/03/05 03:49 AM Re: Is music proof of God?
black_coffee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 23
Loc: York, England
Were you to provide even a smidgen of evidence that it is in fact my opinions not yours that are foolish, then that wouldn't annoy me a smuch as it does.

Not only are most of your arguments baseless, and self contradictory but are also illogical and inconsistent.

I feel sorry that you are too weak to follow any of your beliefs through to their logical conclusion.

Compromising the bible to be flawed and inaccurate simply leads one to the logical conclusion of that it must be flawed on its most contraversial topic, that of the ressurection. So if you believe that it is wrong and flawed - why believe it? Be a man and follow that through to its logical conclusion.

Or, how about this? Stop following the crowd, the so called intellectual skeptics, and stand up for what you believe, open your mind and look at things on your own.

Either way, stop faffing around as somebody who doesn't really believe anything for fear of being wrong.
_________________________
He got smaller as the world got big, the whiz man never fit him like the whiz kid did...

Ben Folds (legend)

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#357058 - 02/03/05 07:37 AM Re: Is music proof of God?
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Virginia, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by black_coffee:
Were you to provide even a smidgen of evidence that it is in fact my opinions not yours that are foolish, then that wouldn't annoy me a smuch as it does.

[/b]
You can see stars that are 15 billion light years away. With your own eyes. And you claim them to be 6,000 years old. Further evidence is not required, nor does it appear there would be any sense in providing it to you.

I give up, you cannot be reasoned with. I'm out of here, you are welcome to the last word, I will not respond further.

I would like to say this without being offensive but there is sadly no way, yet the topic cannot be avoided. You believe my brand of Christianity to be heretical because we do not insist on a literal reading of Genesis (nor do most of the Christian denominations). I am terrified of your brand of Christianity, because historically it has been the brand of Christianity that burned books, started wars, burned witches, bombed abortion clinics, beat up gays, all in the name of Jesus with a perfectly clear conscience.

I wish that I DID know how to talk to you, but I don't. Good bye.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#357059 - 02/04/05 04:20 AM Re: Is music proof of God?
black_coffee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 23
Loc: York, England
When did I claim to be a fundamentalisit?

When did I claim to believe in a 6,000 yr old earth? I simply challenge your dogmatic belief in evolution, despite the lack of facts and empirical evidence. And for this, despite claiming to be open minded, you label me a homosexual hating, scientifically backwards, fundamentalist terrorist???

Who is closed minded?

I am simply scared of your brand. The type that are too afraid to believe in anything - and so compromise until there is nothing left to believe.

I wish that I could understand you, but I don't think that even you understand yourself.

Goodbye.
_________________________
He got smaller as the world got big, the whiz man never fit him like the whiz kid did...

Ben Folds (legend)

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#357060 - 02/04/05 06:08 AM Re: Is music proof of God?
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
please leave music alone, away from god or whatever!

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#357061 - 02/05/05 02:22 PM Re: Is music proof of God?
Piana Justice Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Greenville, NC
anyway, i think that if all the great composers out there have made their themes famous [including the most famous hit songs of all time], and up to this day unforgetable, then God must be in it somewhere, even if they're really boring, b/c i know songs and themes that were way more interesting and were ignored.
_________________________

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#357062 - 02/05/05 02:42 PM Re: Is music proof of God?
ishldbpracticing88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 103
Loc: SC
Thought this was interesting!
_________________________
"The aim and the final reason of all music should be nothing else but the glory of God and the refreshment of the human spirit."
-Johann Sebastian Bach

P.S. Rach rocks

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