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last night i got to thinking about Beethovan and i came to a rather startling conclusion...

i think it would in many ways be safe to say that beethovan is underappreciated, or appreciated for the wrong reasons by the public. Beethovan is almsot without a doubt the most popular classical composer period. But the majority of people (and here im refering to common folk, ie. not professional musicians, although it may very well apply to many of them too!) who would claim beethovan as their favorite composer, would do so on the basis of such a small segment of his output. Mostly a handful of his middle period works...moonlight sonata (often first movement only), fifth symphony, 9th symphony(often only ode to joy,) and if their somewhat more experienced, the appasionata sonata... these pieces paint a potrait very commonly seen in depicting beethovan, that of a very angry man constantly railing against the world and societ: the proto artist-rebel, or some very macho heroic type figure.... this does beethovan an enormous injustice because it ignore so much of his music's greatest features and so much of his personality as it comes through in his music. The commonly held veiw of beethovan is that of a man who was a tyrant in his everyday life, he had a horrible temper and was very difficult to get along with etc...however there are many many anecdotes of people who new beethovan who said the exact opposit about him, that he was full of humour, and happy to just be alive...and this come through in his music all the time. Beethovan was possibly the greatest humourist in music history, his music is full of wit and lighthearted moments that are wonderful...as well in his late period his music is often the most peacful serene music ever written, theres nothing to compare it to really. Listening to the slow movement of his 15th string quartet for example...and you all should (it is along with the 3rd movement of the hammarklavier, and the second movment of op.111, one of the greatest slow movments in all of instrumental art) i was struck by the feelings it evoked...almost like...complete joy and serenity at the end of a life well lived...and id take that over the pyrotechnics of the appassionata any day...
am i alone on this or do any of you think it is possible for the most popular composer in history to be popular for all the wrong reasons ...well not the wrong reasons but for what i would say are certainly not his strongest points...
do you think there are other composers that fit into this same category...people like them for reasons that perhaps a more experienced listener would dismiss as almost trivial, or inexperienced...that they get pidgeon-holed into a very narrow description when there is very very much more to them
i may get a whole lot of responses saying im completely wrong and angry raging heroic beethovan is his strongest point...but that i will argue with...

again sorry for the "massive tome" like length of this post, i seem to be writting a lot of those lately...

mike

I agree, but I think that, relistically, few casual listeners are going to grasp the full scope of any composer. Mozart is another fine example: everyone thinks he just wrote light, happy music like Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, his K545 Sonata, or his Magic Flute Overture, but these are forgetting the huge variety of darker pieces like the Adagio in B Minor or Lacrimosa Dies Illae. Still, this is but one example of the fact that audiences are rarely going to grasp a composer fully, in any case. Everybody just knows Elgar for his Pomp and Circumstance, Tchaikovksy for his bigger works and never for his piano music, etc etc.

If you look even closer, casual listeners rarely even understand Beethoven's (or anyone's) full works. Many don't even know that the Moonlight Sonata is just the first of a three-movement piece, or that there's loads more than just Ode to Joy in his 9th Symphony. heck, everybody even tends to forget ther's more than 30 seconds worth of music to Fur Elise.

Anyway, my point is, that nobody except someone who's studied a composer in depth, or has developed a fuller interest in their works like you have with Beethoven, is ever going to fully grasp them, and will of course end up with biased views of them and their works.

Well, the Moonlight sonata, the 5th and the 9th symphony are certainly popular for a good reason.

I'd add the sonata op. 2,1 to the list. It's an early piece, influenced by Haydn, but is already true Beethoven.

When I am playing for relatives or friends, they always reply: "What is a Prokofiev?! Liszt!? Play me the moonlight sonata or that nice Chopin nocturne". And at school "Can you play Fur Elise?" or "look what I can do with my knuckles!"
But I agree with Sandman's thoughts on Beethovaaaaaan (!) .This is a reality we must learn to deal with, for every 10 people who don't know what you are playing, there will be at least 1 who understands it- and thats worth it.

I agree completely, but in a way, every composer has those few melodies that they are famous for. I think 90% of the people who think Liszt immediately think of the 3rd Consolation or Liebestraum or maybe the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody.

We can't be angry at this. Some of us might have a hard time to admit this, but maybe it was Fur Elise or that one part toward the end of the 9th symphony that turned us on to Beethoven, but as we listen more, we eventually develop a liking for those not-so-famous works. I for one think everything Beethoven did was beautiful--particularly his works at the end of his life. The 16th String Quartet is awesome!

Mike

thats a really good point, im sure that i did first come into contact with beethovan through his fur elise or 5th symphony...

i hadn't thought about it from that angle, i guess we really can't be angry, however i do get tired of even professional pianists jumping on the really popular pieces of music....i understand that they have to sell records to make a living and popular pieces will sell more records, but i suppose they could mix very popular pieces with lesser known works and mabey introduce some commoners to a wider variety of music...
i dont know about you, but i could go a very very long time before getting the urge to pick up a new recording of chopin's minute waltz or nocturn op 9#2... ya know what im saying instead record nocturne op55 #2, my personal favorite, and i would say the greatest of the nocturns...
or do his b minor sonata instead of bflat minor, its just as good, in many ways even better... and throw in some popular music for fan appeal...

on a completely unrelated note wouldn't it be an amazing concert if a pianist and a string quartet got together and mabey over 2 or 3 days performed the last five piano sonatas and the last five string quartets of beethovan...wow... like one sonata, one string quartet..you'd alternate them... i dont think anyones ever done a mixed concert like that, at least that i can think of.
pollini, and the borodin string quartet...thats who'd id get to do it!!!! i should be an impresario

There seem to have been a lot of subtle attempts to tell you something here, Sandman, but let me try a little different tack. I know nothing about Beethovan. I am, however, familiar with a composer named Beethoven.

lol....didn't even notice...boy do i feel silly...honestly im always spelling that wrong!!!
ooopps...
thanks for pointing out my foibles

Always glad to help.

It has been said that artistic genuises are borderline crazy. It helps them to think "out of the box" and be truly creative. That Beethoven had a mercurial personality is no surprise. One symphonic piece that tends to be forgotten is the Coriolan Overture. I think it is as good as any of his more famous works.

..Well, I've got the 'borderline crazy' part down. It's the 'genius' part that I'm having trouble with!

I'm having a little trouble with the "borderline" bit myself.

Sandman's commentary makes me realize once again what a shame it is, that public education K-12 can't even touch on the wonders of Art, whether music or visual arts.

Musical or artistic genius? Ask any kid, they might name Bach/Beethoven, but not know of a single work. Problem is, ask their teachers, and you might often get the same response.

I, for one, am a Beethoven fanatic (I guess you can tell by my forum name). I agree with the responses to this post. I love finding little "hidden pearls" among the relatively unknown pieces by a composer. I would love to some recommended pieces by others on this forum that maybe some of us haven't discovered. Here are some of mine that i am crazy about;
Beethoven- 32 variations in C-minor-I would consider the best set of variations ever written. Interestingly, Beethoven thought it was one of his worst pieces.(recommend Horowitz 1938 or Brendel)
-Fantasy in G-minor
Weber-Nine variations on a Russian theme "Schone Minka" op.40 -I can't believe this piece is not more popular
Liszt-Hungarian Fantasy and Paganini no. 6
Mozart- Fugues for strings after Bach- Apparently his sister (Nanerl) asked him to write some fugues and this is what he came up with. I had a very hard time finding this CD-had to order it through B and N and took almost 2 months. I highly recommend it.
Please give me some of your recommendations!

A favorite of mine that's "off the beaten track" of most listeners is Beethoven's early early piano concerto in Eb WoO4 (written 1784). There's also the Piano Concerto in D Op61a (piano/orc version of the violin concerto). The Fantasy in g minor (though not a real rarity) is something that should get more play.

strangely, I agree totally with Beethoven.

Here's a funny, sad in a way, and TRUE story:

A customer came in and wanted the sheet music for the "Moonlight Sonata". I asked her if she wanted the whole sonata or just the first movement. I ascertained that she did indeed just want the first movement, since my question threw her into total confusion. I gave her a copy of the first movement, which she in turn purchased. She went out to her car, and then after a couple of minutes came back into the store. She walked over to me and said, "I'm sorry, but could I get a copy of this with the words?"

April