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#359589 - 04/16/06 04:54 AM Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Gavin Burt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Anacortes, Washington
Hey, guys. Thank goodness there are these forums, because I'm having yet another difficulty.

So my piano teacher gave me a book of the Hanon exercises. I have began the first exercise (ascending and descending in C major, in 2/4 time going at 16th notes at 60 to 108bpm). I have got up to 86 beats per minute, which I think is pretty good for starting at 60. Yet, I am noticing that at about 80, I tense up and although I can play faster than 80, my elbows/upper arm starts to feel tense.

What should I do? Is it stamina? Do I need to be looser? By the way, I play in a chair that has a straight back and two shoulder rests. I have a piano bench, but it hurts when I try and keep my back straight.

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#359590 - 04/16/06 05:02 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
tenuki Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 669
Loc: Seattle, Wa
I have no personal idea, but i just read a free book off the internet. (yes I know how that sounds, trust me, wait, I know how that sounds too, hmn, nevermind :0 ) that talked about exactly what you describe and how to get past it.

http://members.aol.com/chang8828/contents.htm

I've been applying some of these techniques as a beginner and seeing really different results!
_________________________
Only the humble improve.

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#359591 - 04/16/06 05:08 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Adam H Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 36
Loc: Hull, Uk
I would suggest playing them at a tempo where you feel comfortable throughout, and don't be a 'slave to the metronome'!

I think the point of these exercises is primarily to promote fluency, dexterity and evenness of tone. Yes, speed is in there too, but it should never overshadow the overall sound. I think musicians are often overly concerned with tempo at the expense of the *music*.

I would guess if you go to your next lesson and play the study fluently and musically at 70bpm your teacher will be more pleased then if you give a tense rendition at 82.

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#359592 - 04/16/06 06:35 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: Surrey, England
Relax. Go slower. Sit comfortably - there is no rule that says you have to have a straight back.

Speed comes eventually but it is not the aim.

Far better to learn exercises 1 to 8 slowly and as if by magic you will find that the first one is so easy you can play it at any speed on autopilot after a while.

Kind regards

Adrian
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280, Boston GP178


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#359593 - 04/16/06 08:27 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Phlebas Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Welcome
There's a lot written about Hanon in this forum. You may want to do a search.

What has your teacher said regarding posture, and how to practice Hanon?

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#359594 - 04/16/06 11:09 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
lol_nl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 918
Loc: Ede, Netherlands
Tension is never good. Try to relax while you're playing. Try to switch off all the additional muscles.

Read Chang's book.


Personally I would never play Hanon.
_________________________
Yiteng

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is never enough for music."
-Sergei Rachmaninoff.

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#359595 - 04/16/06 12:35 PM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
xyz2004slc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 353
Stop playing with your metronome on. It tells your brain that you have to go a certain speed, which causes the arms to tense up. Speed will come naturally.

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#359596 - 04/16/06 02:07 PM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Oleo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 46
Why do you want to play these studies? Do you want to play them as “studies” or as “pieces” in their own right?

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#359597 - 04/16/06 02:25 PM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Gavin Burt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Anacortes, Washington
Oleo, I play them as studies.

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#359598 - 04/16/06 02:48 PM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
lol_nl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 918
Loc: Ede, Netherlands
Problems with Hanon exercises according to C. Chang:

 Quote:
Problems with Hanon Exercises [/b]

Since about 1900, Charles Louis Hanon's (1820-1900) exercises have been used by numerous pianists in the hopes of improving technique. There are now two schools of thought: those who think that the Hanon exercises are helpful and those who do not. Many teachers recommend Hanon while others think they are counter-productive. There is one "reason" many people give for using Hanon: that is to keep the hands in good playing condition from day to day. This reason is most frequently cited by the type of person who wants to warm up the fingers with the brain shut off. I suspect that this habit grew out of having learned Hanon early in the person's piano career, and that this same person would not be using Hanon if s/he were not so habituated.

I used Hanon exercises extensively in my youth but I am now firmly in the anti-Hanon school. Below, I list some reasons why. Czerny, Cramer-Bulow, and related lesson pieces share many of these disadvantages. Hanon is possibly the prime example of how intuitive methods can suck entire populations of pianists into using methods that are essentially useless, or even harmful. [/b]

1) Hanon makes some surprising claims in his introduction with no rationale, explanation or experimental evidence. This is exemplified in his title, "The Virtuoso Pianist, in 60 Exercises". Upon careful reading of his introduction, one realizes that he simply felt that these are useful exercises and so wrote them down. It is another prime example of the "intuitive approach". Most advanced teachers reading this introduction would conclude that this approach to acquiring technique is amateurish and would not work. [/b]Hanon implies that the ability to play these exercises will ensure that you can play anything -- this is not only totally false, but also reveals a surprising lack of understanding of what technique is. Technique can only be acquired by learning many compositions from many composers. [/b]

There is no question that there are many accomplished pianists who use Hanon exercises. However, all advanced pianists agree that Hanon is not for acquiring technique, but might be useful for warming up or keeping the hands in good playing condition. [/b] I think there are many better pieces for warming up than Hanon, such as etudes, numerous Bach compositions, and other easy pieces. The skills needed to play any significant piece of music are incredibly diverse - almost infinite in number. To think that technique can be reduced to 60 exercises reveals the naiveté of Hanon and any student who believes that is being misled. [/b]

2) All 60 are almost entirely two-hand exercises, in which the two hands play the same notes an octave apart, plus a few contrary motion exercises in which the hands move in opposite directions. This locked HT motion is one of the greatest limitations of these exercises because the better hand cannot practice skills more advanced than the weaker hand. [/b] At slow speed, neither hand gets much workout. At maximum speed, the slow hand is stressed while the better hand is playing relaxed. Because technique is acquired mostly when playing relaxed, the weaker hand develops bad habits and the stronger hand gets stronger. [/b] The best way to strengthen the weaker hand is to practice that hand only, not by playing HT. In fact, the best way to learn Hanon is to separate the hands as recommended in this book, but Hanon never seems to have even considered that. To think that by playing HT, the weaker hand will catch up to the stronger hand, reveals a surprising ignorance for someone with so much teaching experience. This is part of what I meant by "amateurish" above; more examples below.

Locking the two hands does help to learn how to coordinate the hands, but does nothing to teach independent control of each hand. In practically all music, the two hands play different parts. Hanon doesn't give us any chance to practice that. Bach's Inventions are much better and (if you practice HS) will really strengthen the weaker hand. The point here is that Hanon is very limited; it teaches only a small fraction of the total technique that you will need. [/b]

3) There is no provision for resting a fatigued hand. This generally leads to stress and injury. A diligent student who fights the pain and fatigue in an effort to carry out Hanon’s instructions will almost surely build up stress, acquire bad habits, and risk injury. The concept of relaxation is never even mentioned.[/b] Piano is an art for producing beauty; it is not a macho demonstration of how much punishment your hands, ears, and brain can take.

Dedicated students often end up using Hanon as a way of performing intense exercises in the mistaken belief that piano is like weight lifting and that "no pain, no gain" applies to piano. Such exercises might be performed up to the limit of human endurance, even until some pain is felt. This reveals a lack of proper education about what is needed to acquire technique. The wasted resources due to such misconceptions can mean the difference between success and failure for a large number of students, even if they don't suffer injury. Of course, many students who routinely practice Hanon do succeed; in that case, they work so hard that they succeed in spite of Hanon.

4) The Hanon exercises are devoid of music so that students can end up practicing like robots. It does not require a musical genius to compile a Hanon type exercises. The joy of piano comes from the one-on-one conversations with the greatest geniuses that ever lived, when you play their compositions. For too many years, Hanon has taught the wrong message that technique and music can be learned separately. Bach excels in this respect; his music exercises both the hands and the mind. Hanon probably excerpted most his material from Bach's famous Toccata and Fugue, modified so that each unit is self cycling. The remainder was probably also taken from Bach's works, especially the Inventions and Sinfonias. [/b]

One of the greatest harm that Hanon inflicts is that it wastes so much time. The student ends up with insufficient time to develop their repertoire or acquire real technique. Hanon can be harmful to technique and performance![/b]

5) Many pianists use Hanon routinely as warm-up exercises. This conditions the hands so that you become unable to just sit down and play "cold", something any accomplished pianist should be able to do, within reasonable limits. Since the hands are cold for at most 10 to 20 minutes, "warming up" robs the student of this precious, tiny, window of opportunity to practice playing cold. This habit of using Hanon for warm-ups is more insidious than many realize. Those who use Hanon for warm-ups can be misled into thinking that it is Hanon that is making their fingers fly, while in reality, after any good practice session, the fingers will be flying, with or without Hanon. It is insidious because the main consequence of this misunderstanding is that the person is less able to perform, whether the fingers are limbered up or not. It is truly unfortunate that the Hanon type of thinking has bred a large population of students who think that you have to be a Mozart to be able to just sit down and play, and that mere mortals are not supposed to perform such magical feats. If you want to be able to “play on demand”, the best way to start is to quit practicing Hanon.

6) There is little question that some degree of technique is required to play these exercises, especially the final 10 or so. The problem is that Hanon gives no instructions on how to acquire these techniques. [/b] It is exactly analogous to telling a penniless person to go earn some money if he wants to become rich. It doesn't help. If a student used her/is “Hanon time” to practice a Beethoven sonata, the student would acquire a lot more technique. Who wouldn't rather play Mozart, Bach, Chopin, etc., than Hanon exercises with better results and end up with a repertoire you can perform? [/b]

Even if you can play all the Hanon exercises well, if you get stuck at a difficult passage in another composition, Hanon will not help. Hanon does not provide any diagnostics for telling you why you can't play a given passage. The parallel set exercises provide both the diagnostics and the solutions for practically any situation, including ornaments, etc., that Hanon does not even consider.

7) What little advice he does dispense, have all[/b] been shown to be wrong! So let's look into them.
(A) He recommends "lifting the fingers high", an obvious no-no for fast playing, since that will be the biggest source of stress. I have never seen a famous pianist in concert lift the fingers high to play a fast run; in fact, I have never seen anyone do that! This advice by Hanon has misled an enormous number of students into thinking that piano should be played by lifting the finger and plonking it down onto the key. It is one of the most non-musical and technically incorrect ways to play. It is true that the extensor muscles are often neglected, but there are exercises for treating this problem directly.
(B) He recommends continuous practicing of both hands, as if piano technique is some kind of weight lifting exercise. Students must never practice with fatigued hands. This is why the HS method of this book works so well - it allows you to practice hard 100% of the time without fatigue, because one hand rests while the other works. Stamina is gained, not by practicing with fatigue and stress, but by proper conditioning. Besides, what most of us need is mental stamina, not finger stamina. And his recommendation totally ignores relaxation.
(C) He recommends playing every day, regardless of skill level, all your life. But once you acquire a skill, you don't need to reacquire it over and over; you only need to work on technique that you don't already have. Thus once you can play all 60 pieces well, there is no need to play them anymore -- what will we gain?
(D) He is apparently aware of only the thumb under method, whereas the thumb over method is more important.
(E) In most of the exercises, he recommends fixed wrists which is only partially correct. His recommendation reveals a lack of understanding of what “quiet hands” means.
(F) There is no way to practice a majority of the important hand motions, although there are a few wrist exercises for repetitions.

8) The Hanon exercises do not allow for practicing at the kinds of speeds possible with the parallel set exercises described above. Without the use of such speeds, certain fast speeds cannot be practiced, you cannot practice "over-technique" (having more technique than necessary to play that passage - a necessary safety margin for performances), and they do not provide a way to solve any specific technical problem.

9) The whole exercise is an exercise in waste. All the editions I have seen print out the entire runs, whereas all you need are at most 2 bars ascending and 2 bars descending and the final ending bar. Although the number of trees cut down to print Hanon is negligible in the broader picture, this reveals the mentality behind these exercises of simply repeating the intuitively "obvious" without really understanding what you are doing, or even pointing out the important elements in each exercise. "Repetition is more important than the underlying technical concepts"[/b] -- this is probably the worst mentality that has hindered students most in the history of piano. A person who has 2 hrs to practice every day, playing Hanon for 1 hr as recommended, would waste half of his piano lifetime! A person who has 8 hours to practice, on the other hand, doesn't need Hanon.

10) I have noticed that teachers can be classified into two schools according to whether they teach Hanon or not. Those who do not teach Hanon tend to be more knowledgeable because they know the real methods for acquiring technique and are busy teaching them -- there is no time left for Hanon. Thus when you are looking for a piano teacher, choose from among those that do not teach Hanon, and you will increase the chances of finding a superior one.
Sorry for these page long posts, but just wanted to help people by making them clear what the disadvantages are. Of course, there can be a lot of discussion about this, but this is 100% my opinion, what Chang just mentioned, altough it's sometimes a bit "extreme". I do no and will not use these exercises to acquire technique, and even for warming-up I prefer other exercises and methods.

Hope this will solve your Hanon problem (just don't play it, problem solved \:\) ).

Regards,
_________________________
Yiteng

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is never enough for music."
-Sergei Rachmaninoff.

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#359599 - 04/17/06 11:57 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Arabesque Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 545
Loc: Japan
Hey, I never played Hanon in my youth - I squandered my years playing other things! Actually I play them now but just as a warm up. The problem is this mental turn-off that students get when playing repetitive exercises. I play Hanon whilst listening to the TV news. It's become my musical exercise bike I fear. It also is easy to develop O C D as I have to do them or I can't sleep!

Chang's book persuaded me to supplement Hanon with Bach out of sheer boredom and that's what I do. Do they help? Well, they do provide targeted finger exercise in a way that does provide a foundation. But like all exercises you have to do them correctly for any benefit to accrue. So slow work focussing on the weighting of each finger is more effective than mindless repetition.

I'd like to know if any of the virtuosos espoused Hanon but I don't think so, as it is primarily a tool of the piano teacher, isn't it? And how many students may have been put off by over-reliance on one method? Or to be kind Hanon is prescriptive for developing general strength and dexterity. That is, if it is understood and applied necessarily and not exclusively. I used to play the church organ and in order to develop facilty with the pedal board I remember having to do various exercises. These exercises were necessary and by focussing on the foot exercises I became better able at playing pieces which had pedal parts. I did not see the exercises as wasteful at all and began to gain competency. If this is so, then how do we evaluate the Hanon exercises? Of course they are focussing on the manual skills of the keyboard in the same way. The only problem for Hanon is that the exercises cannot train for any modern repertoire. And therefore the book may be outdated but it still is a good practice resource if those limitations are understood.
_________________________
It don't mean a ting if it don't have dat swing

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#359600 - 04/17/06 01:14 PM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
LMorita Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 19
Loc: California
Hanon - a waste of time. You are better off practicing pieces. If you Google Hanon you will find nothing musical - he was a piano instructor that created these exercisesn for his students. About the only redeeming value of his works is when music schools hold Hanon marathons to raise money.

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#359601 - 04/17/06 08:22 PM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
mmmmaestro007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 420
Loc: australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by LMorita:
Hanon - a waste of time. You are better off practicing pieces. If you Google Hanon you will find nothing musical - he was a piano instructor that created these exercisesn for his students. About the only redeeming value of his works is when music schools hold Hanon marathons to raise money. [/b]
_________________________
"musical training is a more potent instrument than any other because rhythym and harmony find their way into the inner places of the soul" -Plato

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#359602 - 04/17/06 10:14 PM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
audioambrosia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 20
I think that the best thing to do w/ Hanon is transpose it into a bunch of different keys. This actually requires some thought and helps you get familiar w/ the geography of different keys signatures. Aside from that, I think Hanon is mind numbing! Of course, there are a lot of pianists on this forum far more technically skilled than I am. Maybe I'd be one of them if I grew up playing Hanon! ;-)

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#359603 - 04/18/06 08:24 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
oiseux Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Connecticut
I do think playing Hanon is waste of time for advanced piano students. I say this only for "advanced" students. If people can read Bach invention or chopin etudes, they'd better play that as an exercise....

But if people are adult beginners or doesn't established good muscle yet..or weak reader, I think Hanon might be a good help...

they can also have a fun with creating different rhythm or dynamic to play. YOu can make up some phrase to exercise wrist movement also. I guess it's depend how to use Hanon....


I did Hanon when I was young. The teacher told me to transport all to C# major later and play all of the first section by memory... well..that was not fun....hahaha

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#359604 - 04/18/06 11:07 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
lol_nl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 918
Loc: Ede, Netherlands
You should require the skills of Hanon without playing it \:\) .

Instead you should work on other pieces with similar difficulties. Why would you work on Hanon if you can just work on the same technique in musical pieces?

But I think you SHOULD learn most of the scales and appergios IF YOU ARE A BEGINNER. They form the base for lots of other things and you should BE ABLE TO PLAY AND SCALE OR APPERGIO AT ANY TIME. That doesn't mean that YOU SHOULD PRACTISE IT EVERY DAY, AS HANON DESCRIBES!

You should acquire the technique of Hanon as a beginner, but I think regular practise (an hour a day) is pure misuse of time.

The only exeption is warming-up, but do not warm up with playing 1 hour of Hanon, just a few exercises, such as appergios (which will loosen the wrists, etc.).

And the most important is: DO NOT FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS. You can practise these pieces as long as you don't follow his instructions, because they really suck as hell...
_________________________
Yiteng

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is never enough for music."
-Sergei Rachmaninoff.

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#359605 - 04/19/06 05:39 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
mmmmaestro007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 420
Loc: australia
i use Hanon for specific purposes- for instance at the moment i'm strengthening my fingers with the chromatic thirds exercises cos this is an area which i need to improve- i'm also practising one of the exercises in sixths- already after practising these for a week or so i notice an improvement in my playing- only five or so minutes a day each exercise- i'll probably do these for a few more weeks \:\)
_________________________
"musical training is a more potent instrument than any other because rhythym and harmony find their way into the inner places of the soul" -Plato

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#359606 - 04/19/06 05:59 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Jan-Erik Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 1293
Loc: Finland
I was told by my Russian teacher that Rachmaninov opened his day by playing Hanon's tremolo excercise in one of the keys. IMO there is something like ortodox church music in the harmonies of this excercise.

I use to play it in E major and F sharp major. And one or two of the other exercises, somtimes the thrills, for warming up.

Scales, also chromatic, and arpeggios, broken and in different directions etc, are basical knowlegde and should be mastered by every pianist. And they are very efficient for warming up too.

I do not believe in strengthening of fingers. It is more important to have your hand flexible and relaxed. Your fingers must be trained to move fast and still under control and independent of each others.

Static strength excercises certainly can do more harm than good.

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#359607 - 04/19/06 06:34 AM Re: Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
mmmmaestro007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 420
Loc: australia
it's pertinent to point out from my last post whenever you do any of these exercises, if you feel discomfort, STOP, give your hands a shake and a rest \:\)
_________________________
"musical training is a more potent instrument than any other because rhythym and harmony find their way into the inner places of the soul" -Plato

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