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Hey everyone!

Can anyone tell me what's the best fingering that you use in bar 6 and 20?? I'm always changing that...

I use 2131 4231 4231 4231 in both cases.

How are you doing with bars 79 and 80? I've discovered that at higher speeds I need to use significant wrist rotation (which I didn't foresee), especially for the descending arpeggio in bar 80.

Steven

Thanks for your reply

With bars 79 - 80, I think that at higher speeds the wrist rotation is almost zero, because if you do a lot of wrist action, you will lose speed. When you do slowly, it's important to exagerate de wrist motion. The important is to keep your hand relax.

You're welcome.

I'll keep that in mind, but without the wrist rotation I have no accuracy. Thanks!

Steven

Uh, it's pretty impossible to do without wrist movement...I can pull it off full speed with wrist movement, it just needs practice. (well I don't know since I picked it up by myself for fun, but it seems like that is the only way)

How are you doing at the section before the diminished arpeggios? That part is crazy...

For all its worth.....here's how I'm relearning it now - but it may change...

Measure 6 - 2131 3231 4231 4341

Measure 20 - 2131 4341 4341 4341

On measures 79 and 80 - I don't use a lot of wrist rotation when playing this up to speed - but I try to relax and move my hand quickly from one position to another as if I were going to play the arpeggios as chords.

Of course all of us are built and wired differently - and what works for one may not work for another.

Which section before the diminished arpeggios? Measures 33 and 34 and 37 and 38?? For some reason this has always been the easiest part of the piece for me to play up to speed. Again - we're all different. For me, measures 41, 42 and 43 have always been the most challenging.

From 26 (I think? or is it 27?) to the part before the left hand ostinato thing, is a beast because the right hand has 2 voices or whatever you would call it...I can play it but I'm not too sure if it's legitimate because it seems like my hands are flying around by themselves. It sounds real enough, but I'm not very happy for some reason because I can't actually perceive all the notes being played.

The hardest spot for me, too, is also before the diminished arpeggios, but just the two-measure phrase in 31 and 32.

carey, I expected 41 to 44 to be the most difficult place, but it turned out that the figures fit my hand and it clicked almost immediately.

I had significant trouble getting the left-hand's jumps in 71 to 74 to be accurate, though. (The problem wasn't with the low c-sharp but rather the octaves.)

Oh FWIW, in 79 and 80 ... for me the wrist rotation is mainly in the descent in bar 80. Going up in bar 79, I need to use significant, flexible "in and out" movement (i.e., toward and away from the fallboard).

Steven

I am usually a bit hesitant to "re-sort" across the hands in the etudes, but in that case (measure 26-28) I'm inclined to take the quarter notes all in the left hand so the right hand is free for the 16ths. I mean sure it's written differently, but in the end these are also fantastic pieces of music and I want to make zero compromise regarding the sound I can achieve. I'm interested about other people's opinions.

I think this case is different from things like using a fingering different from 1235/1245 in 10/1, because this will always be audible (or it's at least very hard to hide).

PV,

I've heard of the "re-sorting" you describe in bars 25-28 of 10/4. (I agree it's not on the same order as that 10/1 thing, though it does strike me as akin to a similar "fix" for 10/2 in which the lowest notes of the right-hand's chords are taken by the left hand where possible.)

The idea would never have occurred to me on my own, though. Fortunately, I don't find these measures difficult to play as written. Perhaps this is a spot where not having large hands is a benefit, as it's a rather "tight squeeze" between the thumb's held notes and the figures played by the other figures?

Steven

I wouldn't let the left hand take over the notes on the bottom for the right, because that's one of the difficulties meant to be overcome.

Steven and Trialg - It never occurred to me either to play the RH quarter notes in measure 27 with the LH. Its not what the composer intended - nor have I found it particularly difficult as written.

Steven - This morning when playing measures 79 and 80 I paid close attention to my hand, wrist and arm - to see what I was really doing. I noticed that in measure 80 I seem to lead with my thumb. If I can hit the C sharps squarely with the thumb everything else seems to fall into place. Also I noticed that my elbow rotates more than my wrist in measure 80.

Trialg - you might want to continue to practice measures 27 through 32 slowly - just to make sure that the RH and LH are in sync. Also try pausing on beats 1 - 2 - 3 and 4 in each measure to make sure you are really secure with the notes and fingering on those main beats. You can then play the 16th notes between each main beat up to speed. Then try pausing on the 1st and 3rd beats of each measure - and playing the other notes in the measure up to speed. Another thing you might try is to lead with the LH when playing the 16th notes - rather then trying to keep up with the RH. If the RH follows the LH your playing will be more controlled. Hope this makes sense !!

Good luck to ALL of us !!

TriGalg - Sorry !!