Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner What really happens next?

Im preety sure that majoring in music is not a "waste" of your brains, If so then Bach must have been a vegetable, jk, although if I were in your position (which I am) I would not sell my dream and happiness for a little extra cash. Im sure that you are smarter than the average person and just because everyone else ususaly change in what they major doesnt mean you will.. and if your so sure that you will change out of other academics then you know you will major in music (srry if that didnt make much sence).

anywayz I hope you choose whats best.

For pianists there is room for everybody -- you don't have to be a concert pianist.

Accompanist, cafe-playing, dancing-school playing, pub-pianist, teaching, choir training, theatre incidental music (probably keyboard here), church organist, modern church christian-pop band keyboard player, jazz pianist, session player.

But you need to be a musician: improvising, immediate sight-reading, transposing at sight, memory playing, playing "by ear". Also very flexible in attitude and with excellent social skills, willing to work all hours. And family is out of the question -- the pram in the hallway kills the artist who is without another income.

Best choice is your final choice -- find a job to fund your enthusiasm. I'm sorry to be downbeat, but someone's got to tell you.

I can understand why some parents don't want their kids to get into such an unsure profession as music... I think most parents would like their kids to do similar as themselves, maybe it goes something like this: Parent has done well doing their thing, parent wants kid to do well, kid should do as parent does...

It sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind Op28

Consider, what's the worst that could happen if you major in music? Maybe you won't cut it - that's not a big deal. If that's the worst that happens, you still have the rest of your life to collect money and cultivate a beautiful hobby.

The alternative is to not give it your best effort, which you can be certain you will regret. Always wondering "what if?", that would be quite the bitter thought to carry around.

The way I see it, there is no question. Don't cheat yourself. Chances are, with enough desire and perseverance, you will succeed.

Have you never met a music teacher with a family?

Yes, many parents who achieve great things, especially when starting with very little and making great sacrifices to reach the final goal, are driven by the desire to give their children a better chance and greater opportunity than they had. Ironically, when the child, given this better opportunity, actually uses it to pursue something that they would never ordinarily get to pursue, if that pursuit isn't noble or high minded or some achievement beyond what the parent reached, then it is seen as a wasted opportunity. And the opportunity itself was part of what the parent felt he or she never had and was a driving force of their own achievement.

An awareness or acknowledgement of this, even implied or indirect, will assuage your parents concerns and may even make them see things differently - even if they won't admit it. Then, if you strive to excel in whatever it is that you choose, you will achieve and you will honor the parental sacrifice.

In re-reading your first post, I'm thinking that a major source of your parents' discomfort with your choice of major is just fear of the unstable and financially insecure nature of the typical career as a performer. If that's the case, I think Sarabande had an excellent point when she talked about training to be a college teacher of music. If you tell your parents you want to be a professor of music and play up the benefits of tenure etc., they may feel less worried about your long term future.

People have given you great advice here. I would add avoiding debt as you go to college. Lots of people come out of college owing money, which then requires them to take on work that is not satisfying to them. If you can show your parents that you are not wanting the latest in cars, stereos, etc. and will not require a huge income to satisfy material wants, then maybe they will be more agreeable. I think the professor idea is also a good one--your parents will probably view that as more of a career than just generally saying "music."

Good luck!

Nancy

If you are interested in physics and math also, I wonder if there is something you could go into that would combine music, math, and physics. I wrote a paper once about regarding the universities in the 14th century where music, math, and science were all intermingled. They were all required and studied in relation to each other.

Surely there are jobs correlating to music that utilize math and physics. In the world of increasing technology in electronic music - digitals, computers, software, sound engineering, etc., you could get involved in helping develop these things. Anyone have any ideas along the lines of careers combining physics, math, music?

Settle on a compromise: major in piano
performance, piano education, etc., but
take the required premed courses.

How come you're so sure?

Because so very few reach that point... but someone has to be next in line....

"You miss 100% of the shots you never take."
--Wayne Gretzky

Nah they just don't want you knocking at the front door a few years from now asking for a room lol.


Your ambitions of teaching are good IMO. It's not like you are talking about leaving with a suitcase and moving from hotel to hotel to get discovered.
Do what you want to do and enjoy the ride.

Peter

Life is short, but you are young. Do whatsoever your heart desires so long as you KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN. Don't ever, for any amount of money or any amount of "dream come true-ness", do anything that shuts a door or burns a bridge.

Your parents, as physicians, see failed lives 20 times a day, and they want better than that for you. Success doesn't necessarily mean financial security, but it helps. Grouch Marx said "I've been rich, and I've been poor. And believe me, rich is better." There is wisdom there.

It's quite easy, as a burnt out 50 year old engineer or doctor, to fall back on your music and slowly use up your considerable savings buying Steinways and sheet music. It's nearly bloody impossible for the reverse to happen. Remember what I said about OPTIONS. Options, my lad...that's what it's all about. Options.

Good luck.

It also helps, on applications to med school, graduate school, or other (non-music) jobs, to be able to "spin" unusual background schooling like music well.

IE: my training in music enabled me to:
...be at ease in front of large groups...work hard for long hours (practice)...attention to detail (getting that phrase just right)...work with others (ensemble)...

You can *do* anything later if you're good at explaining why your previous schooling and experience prepared you well for what you're trying to do.

I used to work at a college of medicine and we had lots of students who didn't *just* major in pre-med. I remember one was an English lit major...you just have to know how to put yourself in the best light (and pass the entrance exams with flying colors).

But your parents are right. It sucks to be trying to raise a family, or facing middle age or retirement, with no benefits, no insurance, and an unreliable or too-small income.

Remember this, if music is your JOB you'll have to do a lot of things you don't particularly like (play music you're not fond of, take jobs you don't want) to support yourself. This can kill the joy of music for some people. If it's an avocation instead of a vocation you can please yourself.

Teaching is good but where you do it makes a huge difference...smaller less populous areas you might have less competition but not be able to charge as much (I'll bet you anything you want the piano teachers in my home town still charge $10 or less per lesson [and worth every penny ], larger cities people have more disposable income but MMs are all over the place.

If you plan on teaching, *talk to recent graduates*...ask them what the job market they're looking at is like. If you're thinking of a Doctorate to teach college, especially, get ahold of some newly hatched DM's and ask them how many applicants there are for every open position...in my field (not music) it's downright scary...leading a lot of grad students to stop after an MA or leave the field entirely.

op 28 no 15, you wrote: I hear what they're saying on that last one, but the only thing is that I'd absolutely LOVE teaching music rather than just playing it on the side.

There has been a lot of wisdom in the many replies thus far.

Here are some cold, hard facts I share with my students. Teachers at the college level enjoy a good life with a decent income, and great pension.

Teachers at the primary/secondary school level have a significantly reduced income, beginning around $24k and working up to $60k after 30 years of teaching, but a great work schedule and pension.

Private teachers rarely enjoy a good income. It's usually half of a public school teacher - and much longer hours. And without a good income, you'll end up with social security and little more.

In the USA, non-public employee teachers are paid at market rates, which is generally based on how society values your services. To exacerbate the situation, anyone can hang out a shingle and teach; in my community, I must compete with teachers charging $15/hr. Even if you were able to teach 10 yrs a day, 6 days a week, 50 weeks a year, your net take home pay after Federal taxes would only be $32,000. But you also have local and state business taxes and overhead, so your real net is going to be a lot, lot lower. If you go this route, be sure to marry someone with great benefits, and plan on staying married until death do you part.

Your parents are probably wise enough to see this. And considering that as MDs, they are probably drawing a gross salary between $150k and $300k each, they realize your life style is going to have a dramatic change.

Why not consider attending a liberal arts college, get broadly educated, and then, if you still want to teach piano, study at the graduate level. At least you will then have marketable skills if you change your mind later.

This sounds a lot like what I went through with my parents four years ago - down to the math and science "brains" argument. Now I'm ready to graduate with a performance degree in piano and planning to move on to grad school (I'm attending a state university with an excellent music department).

I had lots of second thoughts, especially my first semester (the dictation and sightsinging were killing me!!), but I'm glad I stuck with it. I almost did a double major of music and premed, but decided I really didn't want an early death. (In the last year though, as I finished my required classes, I've gone and taken more math and chemistry and really enjoyed it - I'm even thinking of finishing biochem reqs while doing my masters)

At my school, there is a medical doctor (practices general medicine/clinic work) who is studying piano and composition.

Ultimately of course, it's your decision. It sounds like you really want to be a teacher. Go for it! Depending on your area, the pay is decent, but you won't be lining your pockets.

Music takes brains too! Maybe a slightly different usage, but I don't think you can make beautiful music and not think about it.

Fizzy, I am curious to learn, as you are finishing up a performance degree, have you taken any course work which would allow you to obtain a teacher certification (for public school teaching)? Did your piano department encourage you or even have a track to prepare you for this requirement?

And, if you don't mind me probing, what business/economics courses are now required by your music department?

What is your perception of openings in the public sector, nation-wide, for performance majors?

I'm asking these questions just to get an idea of what colleges/universities are doing these days. When you've been away from academics for 35 yrs, you get out-of-date. Thanks.

John

op.28, 15.

I see where your parents are going with this and why its iterated countless times: you truely don't appreciate money until your on your own.

You can test out the waters by attempting a double major in music and a stable degree of your choice to fall back on: in the sciences, math, or business finance. By majoring in physics, chem, or bio, you can easily take the required pre-med courses. I went to a college in Tejas and saw it done (wish I had done the same.) Have you checked out Trinity U?? Yes, more likely than not you'll stay an extra year, but that cost is peanuts considering the yield of that investment. Even if you choose not to continue with a double degree, you'll satisfy your college's prereqs.

On one hand, you can always become a doctor, retire early, and become a teacher later in life. Can't really do the reverse.

Been there, done that. Except my parents didn't have anything against my majoring in music because (a) they didn't realize how poor musicians are and how hard it is to earn a living at it and (b) they probably expected that I, as a female, would get married and not need to earn a living. (This was 30 years ago.) The good part about majoring in music is that I learned things about playing, performing, and teaching that I could have learned no other way. It also helped me personally and socially; I actually am not sure I would have survived, or at least been the self-aware person I am today, had I not majored in music.

The bad part is that I missed the boat on having a real profession. I've eked something out, at long last, but it took me until my 40s to do it. And I married a computer programmer who earns twice what I do as an editor.

Regarding teaching at the college level: it's very, very difficult to get those jobs. The degree is just the beginning. You need to have proven performing skills and have won competitions AND you need to have superior people skills (savvy at higher ed politics, good at schmoozing, etc.).

John v.d. Brook has laid out the financial pitfalls of teaching privately very well.

Yes, it's possible to make it, but having now worked at jobs with regular paychecks, health insurance, vacation pay, and retirement plans -- and without the never-ending stress of performing -- for the past 10 years or so, I would never go back.

A lot really depends on your personality and your financial situation.

This probably all sounds horribly crass and like I don't like music at all. But I believe it's best if anyone going into this realizes that it's truly a tough business. I wish I had known.

My school (San Jose State University) does have an education track for public school teaching certification. I know several people who did a double major in performance and education. I've never been interested in having the education credential, but I could've taken some of the classes if I wanted to. Every person in the education track still has to take applied lessons, and do some performing, but it's not as much a performance major.

The music department has no specific business requirements, just what the university requires for general education.

Generally, I think most piano performance majors do it for teaching privately (at my school anyway - I can't speak for other instruments, either). Some are education majors, others are planning to go on for masters/doctorate and do collegiate level teaching. Very few are actually performing for a living, as far as I know.

Personally, I went with performance because I love doing it, but I know I have to be realistic about making a living. I have a small (12 students) studio, plus I'm doing more accompanying, but I've yet to do solo performances outside of school.

I know I have adequate talent and skill, but I also know that I probably don't have the discipline to practice 8 hours a day, win competitions, and perform regularly - all of which seem necessary to have a successful concert career.


I know a physics professor at SJSU who focuses on the physics of music, and acoustics in general (and actually teaches an upper division general ed course about that). He plays French horn and composes as well. I think he has regular commissions.

I've recently become interested in the link between math and music, and how music affects listeners (and performers) neurologically. I'm sure there's lots of research that could be done about that.