Ok so here's the deal. I'm a freshmen piano major at a University I won't name cause I'm afraid music majors might read the board sometime. Anyways it's a small private university 2000 people in the campus and the school of music is 200ish people. Very nice facilities, they are all brand new. If I want to practice on a grand(which I always do) I have a brand new grand to practice on 99% of the time. I LOVE my piano teacher, that's actually the reason I'm going there. I had her for a year before I came to the school, I learn something new every lesson. The school actually seems really good, I'm enjoying it for the most part, getting a good education.

But now the semesters almost over and something is really irratating me. All the piano faculty seems really good, but the students are HORRIBLE! Seriously theres something like 6 piano majors and 6-8 other people who aren't piano performance majors but their major instrument is piano. But the problem is no one is any good! I take that back... There are 2 people that are good but not amazing.

You know what I'm talking about? I wanted to be impressed when I went here. I wanted to hear stuff like Prokofiev Sonatas, Rachmaninoff Concerti, Mephitzo waltze etc etc... You know I don't want to just see crazy fingers flying, but I expected that there would be pianists who were competitive and you need to play pieces like those to be competitive in...well...competitions. Anyways, every week we play in something that they call a Masterclass, but actually it's just "go play and sit down without bowing or introducing your piece or anything... So far the hardest piece I heard was Beethovens 3rd piano concerto, which I'm learning right now. So I wasn't really impressed, especially since it wasn't played extremely well. It was played well, but there was no WOW factor.

Those are the best people! I mean it's ridiculous! Piano majors can't even play pieces like Chopin Nocturnes with an entire semester only working on that peice. I mean they really CAN'T play them, technically. No piano majors ever practice. I'm in the practice rooms 6 hours a day, 8 on weekends. The practice rooms are COMPELETLY empty on weekends. I don't know, it's just irritating me. If it wasn't for my teacher I would transfer next year.

It's kinda sad because there used to be good people here. But They just graduated. People that won national competitions and all kinds of stuff. No one in my school ever even competes!

Anyways I guess it doesn't REALLY matter. It's just I have no motivation except on how I motivate myself. Nothing to aspire to in my school other than the faculty that rarely plays.

I mean no one even knows the Op# of the peice's they are learning! I collect recordings all over the place. I want to get the entire standard repertoire then go back for different pianists. I mean I got all liszt, rachmaninoff, prokofiev, bach, beethoven, chopin, bartok, shostikovich on CD, and I'm working getting a lot more. I asked someone if they listen to recordings, "no". ack...

ok im done rambling. Oh yeah sorry for my poor writing, I just finished a 16 hour day where I spent the last 5 hours writing a 10 page english paper. I can barely keep my eyes open, so yeah it was just really bugging me all day especially, and I had to get it off my chest

Musicman, I have been following your posts in Pianoforum and Pianoworld Forum, first of all, let me congratulate on you being a piano major. Anyway, since you mentioned it's a small private university, my guess would be that the faculty would not be expected extremely competent pianists to join the school. In the city where I live, there are 2 such private universities such as yours and one conservatory in the our government university. The conservatory of course has a very high standard, and practically all who can be selected ( from among thousands ) are concert ready and already has a mean repertoire, not to mention a strong dedication to the art. The private unis, on the other hand, have students as you have described, however, this does not mean they don't love music. They are just perhaps unaware of the steps they need to take, and I feel you are really being arrogant to want your fellow majors to be able to play those stuff you mentioned. Not all people progress the same way, and not all people will have the same dedication, and perhaps they have other commitments in their lives. And not all people have the same start as yours, I know many friends who truly love music, but didn't have the correct guidance and are not appreciating music fully. But that does not make them lesser than those that can play a Rach Concerto. So what if they need an entire semester to learn a Chopin Nocturne? Is music all about competition? I know many people that study music just for the love of it, personally many of them know they may never even get to play concertos or have a steady performing career, but they take the risk even though they know their playing is far from fantastic. I feel that you should really learn to get along with your fellow majors, accept them the way they are, and try your best to infuse them with the same level of interest you are. By viewing them as someone inferior to you will not help at all.

Two options:

1. Take advantage of the situation and win the concerto competition every year.

2. Transfer to a conservatory.

Either way, apply to a conservatory for graduate study if you're still doing music then.

You're talking about students, i.e. people in their formative years. If you are looking for 18-22 year-olds with "WOW factor," you're not going to find it at most places. Take this opportunity to focus on your[/b] playing. Who cares what everyone else is doing?

I'm a living example of Brendan's option #1.

If it's taking them a whole semester just to learn a nocturne and they never listen to recordings, then they're just hurting themselves. Don't worry about it.

The other thing I did was get a lot of performance experience. At my undergraduate institution, none of the other performance majors liked to perform (go figure), so I said yes to a lot of performance opportunties. It really helped me a great deal, and having the chance to be on stage a lot is not something you'd be likely to get at a conservatory.

You will find, if you actually care about your subject, that the "common" standard of virtually any subject is very low. It's wise to work to your own, objective, standard regardless. Now, I'm not talking about the MIT's or Julliards of the world, although I would hardly expect everyone there to be a genius.

Oh, don't let it go to your head.

I understand what your saying, I don't want people to play insane pieces just because... I just wanted to hear some difficulty to know I had something to aspire to. I'd like to see someone that knew about the piano, and competitions, and auditions etc etc. I understand if people don't have the same commitment as me, but I was expecting people that weren't that committed to not spend 32k on tuition every year to play the piano that they only practice for 5 hours a week.

I plan on going to a conservatory for my masters and DMA, and I'm planning on winning the concerto competition every year as well, considering I will be the only one competing on piano.

I understand. It is just that I was expecting at least one person that was preparing for masters auditions, senior recital etc. Last year I went to someones senior recital coming from the same school, it was incredible. So maybe my expectations were set a little too high.

Yeah in my original post I was going to say that I'm getting a lot of performance experience, which is always good. Oh yeah and also I said they took an entire semester to learn a Chopin Nocturne. But that particular person still can't play it without stopping an average of ten times, and that person is goona play it in recital today I really would feel bad for not going, so I'm going to go, but I'm afraid...

I understand that the level of proficiency of my peers is not the biggest deal, but you can understand where I am a little disappointed can you not? Or am I totally insane?

Sounds bad, man. You are stuck in a situation where your peers aren't at the same level as you. In fact they're not really peers. It's obvious to me that you should transfer to a place where you can have conversation with students who are just as devoted and passionate about music.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's good to always be the student of choice for concertos and such, but that stuff gets old if you're not up against any sort of real competition.

You're right to be disappointed. It's very disappointing to see people giving 50%, and it happens a LOT.

I asked an entire class of 8 piano majors this question once:

"Who here can sing a melody from a Beethoven symphony besides the first mvt. of 5 and the last mvt. of 9?"

None of them could... *sigh*

Uh, have you ever considered that some of them didn't *like* those works? That their opinions were GASP different than yours?

:rolleyes:

It has nothing to do with that, but thanks for your empty cynicism anyway.

Beethoven Symphonies are at the very core of standard rep, and music majors who don't know them are missing out on essential stuff.

Then it's their problem. Why is it even an issue?

Beethoven Symphonies are at the very core of standard rep, and music majors who don't know them are missing out on essential stuff.

maybe they're not serious about the art of piano, and probably entered the university b/c their parents forced them to, b/c they didn't want to waste their parents' money.
this angers me, b/c i take piano very seriously, and not for granted, b/c my parents didn't help me with it, and i have to literally work my behind off just to be able to take lessons just now, b/c my parents didn't get me started when i was younger.
i'm now 19 and one of the 'Late Starters', and just got started learning by ear in May. i have to go this alone, w/o the support of my family, unfortunatly. but don't feel sorry for me, though. i'll be alright.

Or maybe they only play to pick up the ladies.

Doesn't work for me.

i know of a dude who did that by buying the sheet music for 'A Thousand Miles', which is a really fast pop song at the chorus and learned how to play it [on the piano], which impressed the ladies. how shallow and stupid.

I asked a graduate student who claimed to be "very interested in 20th century music" how many Prokofiev sonatas there are.

He said "five I think."

Really? I hope the doctors can put it back on.


Kreisler:
Again, maybe he doesn't like Prokofiev. 20th century music has tons of forms and maybe he doesn't care for Prokofiev.

How would he know if he didn't like prokofiev if he didn't give him enough chance to even know that there are 10 and a half prokofiev sonatas including the second version of number 5?

Musicman

I think you have to look at your situation as a chance to raise the bar for those who aren't as good or as serious as you are. Be a leader. For the time you're at the small uni, show those other guys what means to be really serious about yourself, your instrument, your art. I wish I'd had someone to lead me in this respect during my formative years.

Good luck.
-PC

i feel you, PC. i really do. *sarcastically* and very funny, Kriesler. very funny. hope you have a successful comdian career. but i can say worse. just don't push it.

I understand that your peers may not be as talented or ambitous as you, but you can still take this as a learning oppurtunity. Afterall, I hope you're in school to learn, not compete.

And if you want to challenge people at your art then you can enlist in competitions not at your school. ask your teacher about it.

There's really nothing you can do about your fellow students except transfer to another university or to a conservatory.

So take Brendan's advice. It seems very helpful.

Because having a degree in music should mean that you're educated about it. Like them or not, the Prokofiev sonatas are extremely important. Particularly the war sonatas. Amateurs are allowed to say "I dunno, I don't like that." People who want to carry graduate degrees in the subject can't use that excuse.

I understand your frustration because, I think you are seeking peers/friendships with piano majors in your school and the sad thing is there are no sincere piano majors or they are lacking the dedication, determination and drive to achieve what you seem to have achieved.THIS PLACE CAN BE A FANTASTIC PLACE FOR YOU TO PERFORM, LEARN the rep. because you have access to good pianos to practice on. I could NEVER find a decent instrument in most practice rooms when I was at university. What a blessing to have a grand piano to practice on even on the weekends! Finish the year and then TRANSFER to an enviornment that is more fitting to you needs.
Good luck.

"Of your peers - surrond yourself with those who know more than you"
-Robert Schumann


I would say transfer to a place like Julliard or Peabody (If you can get into those schools).

I don't mind this at all. I actually like that people have different taste then my own. For me, it would be silly to judge what other people do based on their own taste. Now if he was learning A Thousand Miles and wanted it to be taken seriously as a classical piano piece, then that would be a questionable act.

When someone commits a crime, we consider their motivations. Even though this is no crime, it's okay that people don't play piano for the same reasons I do. I like being hearing people at school practicing all kinds of music. I never finding myself scoffing, and thinking about someone playing jazz 'He should play beethoven!' Sometimes I do think "I like that, I wonder if there is a classical piece like that." Often enough if I do that and play it for that person, they want to learn stuff like it too.

To the first poster, it is disappointing that it's other students aren't at the same level as one might like, if only because that's a good experience to have. Don't let it stop you from doing your best. Listening to recordings, there's plenty of great pianists to remind you of your own goals. Just concentrate on your goals and be a good example; the ones who want to be what you are and are willing to work for it might follow and use your goals as a model. The ones who don't want that hopefully will go on to accomplish their own goals and not worry too much others either. That's probably best for most things in life.

I think that if you are the big fish in the little pond, you should find the other big fish. Forget about the other pianists. Search out the best of the other instrumentalists and singers and work with them. You will have the pick of people to work with, and there may actually be more that you can learn from them than you can from other pianists.

Well I inspired a sax major to practice more(I play saxophone too). He said he had no time to practice more then 30 minutes a day, I told him my school schedule and said I practice 6. I'm taking more units and harder classes then him. He's now the only other person in the practice rooms at 7am when the building opens. And he gets 3 hours in a day now! Not a piano major but a start

And I'm still working on finding the best musicians in the school but it's a slow process since my music classes are limited because I have to get all my GE classes in.

Your defending of ignorance is truly heart-warming.

koji (STSD)

O goodness, musicman, hang in there! do the best you can! you know, transferring might be a good idea. As wonderful as your teacher must be, there are wonderful teachers at other universities too. And hopefully environments that are a bit better. Sticking where you're at is certainly an option, provided you don't get too lonely on your island of musical dedication.

Musicman....

I was stuck in the very EXACT same situation as you. A small University, 2000 students. I came in with my head full of Horowitz, Ashkenazy, and all sorts of piano knowledge. When I met the other piano majors, I excitedely asked them if they were going to go see Martha Argerich play the Prokofiev 3rd. And they said "Who? Playing what?" Not only had they not heard of Argerich, they had never heard heard of Prokofiev! I was immediately dissapointed.

Well, I worked really hard when I was there. Where most other majors where coming in playing Clementi sonatinas, I was playing Ravel's Sonatine. I felt very alone, and I had no "competition", so it was hard to gauge my progress. However, as I got better, other piano majors began to take notice, and they started to practice a lot more. Suddenly, there was a lot more dedication in the department.

So, all that to say, perhaps you can raise the standard... inspire others to greater heights! You never know. If you have a good teacher, and are generally happy with the school, I say stay.

Seriously. There was a concert where Andre Watts was playing Beethoven's 3rd concerto, and the music school got a bunch of FREE tickets. For goodness sakes! I'm learning it, and even if I wasn't I would have gone. Anyways the piano majors and minors were all offered 2 free tickets. I was the only one to take them and actually go, the one piano major that's actually any good and is playing Beethoven 3 didn't even go! I couldn't understand it. Anyways I don't think I'm going to be going anywhere too soon. I don't think I could get into a conservatory with the level I'm at right now anyways. Hopefully when I go to graduate school I will be able to though.