Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
126 registered (AGPianist, ahoffmann, accordeur, ABC Vermonter, 3times2, 35 invisible), 1540 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#364533 - 08/29/07 12:34 AM Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Brooklyn Pianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Brooklyn
Kinda a random question, but has anyone played Widmung/is anyone familiar with this piece?

I'm working from the Schirmer score and it's maddening but there is no phrasing written in for the melody. Does anyone know if Liszt included phrasing in his transcription, and if so, which edition(s) has it? If not, can anyone refer me to a good edition of the original song (presumable, Schumann's original has phrasing for the vocal line).

Thanks for any assistance.
_________________________
Currently Studying:
Gottschalk - Souvenir de Porto Rico
Bolcom - Raggin' Rudi
Friedman/Bach - Sheep May Safely Graze
Beethoven - Les Adieux

Top
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
#364534 - 08/29/07 01:20 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9060
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
I have played this absolutely glorious transcription, yet Liszt assumes familiarity with the original. And that is what you should do before even beginning work on it. Listen to some of the great lieder singers (Christa Ludwig and Gundula Janowitz are favourites of mine), and they will in turn guide you through Liszt's reinterpretation. (I would imagine tomasino, an authority on this stuff, will have more to say.)

Whatever, please do the homework. Lazar Berman's metrically uncomprehending Schubert-Liszt sounded to me as if he had never even heard the originals.
_________________________
Jason

Top
#364535 - 08/29/07 01:38 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Brooklyn Pianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Brooklyn
Thanks for the quick response. I'm actually pretty unfamiliar with the Schumann Lieder, so thanks for those suggestions. I'll also pick up a score of the original.

Fortunately I'm at the very start of the learning process. I was working through some fingering, deciding how to sustain a passage, when I realized there was no phrasing...now I don't even know whether that line needed to be sustained! I'm completely lost. Thanks a lot Liszt. \:o
_________________________
Currently Studying:
Gottschalk - Souvenir de Porto Rico
Bolcom - Raggin' Rudi
Friedman/Bach - Sheep May Safely Graze
Beethoven - Les Adieux

Top
#364536 - 08/29/07 03:24 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18841
Loc: Victoria, BC
Brooklyn Pianist :

In the Peters Edition (Liszt, Klavierwerke Band IX, Lieder-Bearbeitungen), edited by Emil von Sauer (Peters Edition No. 3602a) there is phrasing for this transcription. Curiously enough, it's called "Liebeslied" in this edition, but it is the "Widmung," whose text begins : "Du meine Seele, du mein Herz..."

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#364537 - 08/29/07 04:24 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9060
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
In the Peters Edition...
Oh yes, Bruce, we use the same edition. It is sitting right in front of me, page 120[/b]. (And rather tattered too...)

But no fair. Brooklyn Pianist seriously needs to hear this song (one moment wherein I can use the word "song" with impunity?) before even considering the Liszt transcription. That was the point of my post.

Your rather grandiose mention of said Peters Edition -complete with proper italics and catalogue number (as if that contributes anything to the original post)- gave me a chuckle.

"Writing maketh an exact man." So cheers, Bruce- you're the greatest! \:D (That was a compliment, actually.)
_________________________
Jason

Top
#364538 - 08/29/07 05:24 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
dannylux Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1835
Loc: Connecticut
Widmung is part of Myrthen, Op.25, which you can find at IMSLP.

For phrasing marks, Clara Schumann's transcription is the best.

It's also closer to the original than the Liszt (of course) or the Kirchner version.


Mel
_________________________
My Recordings

"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. What you will receive in return varies. But it really has no connection with what you give. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn

Top
#364539 - 08/29/07 02:48 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18841
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Your rather grandiose mention of said Peters Edition -complete with proper italics and catalogue number (as if that contributes anything to the original post)- gave me a chuckle.

[/b]
Apart from the compliment, do I sense some sarcasm, here, gentle or otherwise?

And as far as contributing "anything" to the original post, Brooklyn Pianist did ask[/b] if there were any edition(s) which had phrasing, and since the Peters does, I suggested it.

I thought - actually I hoped - that I was being quite helpful by contributing precise information. I included the catalog number of the edition in the hope that it might help Brooklyn Pianist find and order that specific edition - with the phrasing he is looking for.

Oh, well; maybe it will help Brooklyn Pianist.

I'm glad you're amused by my "grandiose" efforts to help others. We all need to chuckle once in a while - whatever the source of our amusement.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#364540 - 08/31/07 04:30 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Brooklyn Pianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Brooklyn
Thanks for all your help so far guys! I was able to start voicing and phrasing on the first few pages yesterday (normally I wait much longer but I couldn't resist) \:\)

Anyways, this is the first time I'm going without a teacher and I have a quick question.

In beat two of measure 23, how would you finger the chord in the left hand? I'm going 5-2-1-2-1, but it's uncomfortable and it makes it hard to land on the top f (the melody) with much control. Is there a trick out there, or is it just an uncomfortable spot?

Link to score:
http://imslp.net/images/b/b1/Liszt_Schumann_Widmung.pdf
_________________________
Currently Studying:
Gottschalk - Souvenir de Porto Rico
Bolcom - Raggin' Rudi
Friedman/Bach - Sheep May Safely Graze
Beethoven - Les Adieux

Top
#364541 - 08/31/07 04:37 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9060
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Brooklyn Pianist: have you had a chance to hear the original yet?
_________________________
Jason

Top
#364542 - 08/31/07 05:04 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Brooklyn Pianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Brooklyn
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Brooklyn Pianist: have you had a chance to hear the original yet? [/b]
I did download the song from Itunes (I forget the vocalist) I just grabbed it randomly. It's been very helpful for more than just phrasing. It's such a beautiful song and such a fun transcription.

I've been looking for a recording of the Myrthen song cycle on CD, but haven't had any luck.
_________________________
Currently Studying:
Gottschalk - Souvenir de Porto Rico
Bolcom - Raggin' Rudi
Friedman/Bach - Sheep May Safely Graze
Beethoven - Les Adieux

Top
#364543 - 08/31/07 06:17 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18841
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brooklyn Pianist:
In beat two of measure 23, how would you finger the chord in the left hand? I'm going 5-2-1-2-1, but it's uncomfortable and it makes it hard to land on the top f (the melody) with much control. Is there a trick out there, or is it just an uncomfortable spot?

[/b]
If you're counting in quarter notes, isn't it the 3rd beat? Peters (see above \:D ) has only Db and F in the left hand on that beat, not the full five-note chord that the Schirmer shows.

Your fingering would work for me, but I would also try 5, 3, 2, 1, 2 on that chord if you decide to play it. In either case, it's not the most comfortable chord; one just has to get used to it. I also use 5, 3, 2, 1 on the chord on the first beat, so it would require no fingering change for the common notes (Db, Ab, C) in the two chords.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#364544 - 09/01/07 12:58 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Since it's in 3/2, the second beat would be on the F (after the Gb in the lh).
When I played this piece, I believe I played 5-4-3-2-1 - shifting the hand quickly from 5 to the 4-3-2-1 position. I may have even considered doing the same, but with 5-5-3-2-1. It's very tricky to pedal, and keep the Db sounding and also connect the rh.

Top
#364545 - 09/02/07 05:13 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4983
Loc: boston north
It is interesting that I find this thread at right now.

My tech and I were just discussing the new Eric Himy Schumann CD and that this was one of his favorite pieces and Himy's playing was a great interpretation on the Steingraeber concert grand.

http://www.erichimy.com/cd.htm

So guess what I sight read (some) today? Just might be my next piece to learn.

Earlier in the year I learned Schumann's Arabeske being inspired by the same CD. If you don't know Himy yet, you might want to order this CD. He is fantastic as is the Steingraeber.

LL
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Composer Statuettes
(ad) Teaching Music To Children
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
original composition, opinion?
by pianistforever238
Today at 02:43 PM
Parson's Buys a Significant Interest in Grottrian
by Steve Cohen
Today at 12:48 PM
Attention to detail and Leschetizky-Schnabel "lineage"
by hreichgott
Today at 12:37 PM
Choosing a digital piano
by cacophonous
Today at 11:11 AM
How to choose Kawai K3 and Kawai K15-E
by acetonitrile
Today at 09:15 AM
What's Hot!!
New Forum for Selling Your Products or Services
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,175 Registered Members
44 Forums
165,805 Topics
2,430,599 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission