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#364533 - 08/29/07 12:34 AM Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Brooklyn Pianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Brooklyn
Kinda a random question, but has anyone played Widmung/is anyone familiar with this piece?

I'm working from the Schirmer score and it's maddening but there is no phrasing written in for the melody. Does anyone know if Liszt included phrasing in his transcription, and if so, which edition(s) has it? If not, can anyone refer me to a good edition of the original song (presumable, Schumann's original has phrasing for the vocal line).

Thanks for any assistance.
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#364534 - 08/29/07 01:20 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8696
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
I have played this absolutely glorious transcription, yet Liszt assumes familiarity with the original. And that is what you should do before even beginning work on it. Listen to some of the great lieder singers (Christa Ludwig and Gundula Janowitz are favourites of mine), and they will in turn guide you through Liszt's reinterpretation. (I would imagine tomasino, an authority on this stuff, will have more to say.)

Whatever, please do the homework. Lazar Berman's metrically uncomprehending Schubert-Liszt sounded to me as if he had never even heard the originals.
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#364535 - 08/29/07 01:38 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Brooklyn Pianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Brooklyn
Thanks for the quick response. I'm actually pretty unfamiliar with the Schumann Lieder, so thanks for those suggestions. I'll also pick up a score of the original.

Fortunately I'm at the very start of the learning process. I was working through some fingering, deciding how to sustain a passage, when I realized there was no phrasing...now I don't even know whether that line needed to be sustained! I'm completely lost. Thanks a lot Liszt. \:o
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Currently Studying:
Gottschalk - Souvenir de Porto Rico
Bolcom - Raggin' Rudi
Friedman/Bach - Sheep May Safely Graze
Beethoven - Les Adieux

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#364536 - 08/29/07 03:24 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17666
Loc: Victoria, BC
Brooklyn Pianist :

In the Peters Edition (Liszt, Klavierwerke Band IX, Lieder-Bearbeitungen), edited by Emil von Sauer (Peters Edition No. 3602a) there is phrasing for this transcription. Curiously enough, it's called "Liebeslied" in this edition, but it is the "Widmung," whose text begins : "Du meine Seele, du mein Herz..."

Regards,
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#364537 - 08/29/07 04:24 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8696
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
In the Peters Edition...
Oh yes, Bruce, we use the same edition. It is sitting right in front of me, page 120[/b]. (And rather tattered too...)

But no fair. Brooklyn Pianist seriously needs to hear this song (one moment wherein I can use the word "song" with impunity?) before even considering the Liszt transcription. That was the point of my post.

Your rather grandiose mention of said Peters Edition -complete with proper italics and catalogue number (as if that contributes anything to the original post)- gave me a chuckle.

"Writing maketh an exact man." So cheers, Bruce- you're the greatest! \:D (That was a compliment, actually.)
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#364538 - 08/29/07 05:24 AM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
dannylux Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1815
Loc: Connecticut
Widmung is part of Myrthen, Op.25, which you can find at IMSLP.

For phrasing marks, Clara Schumann's transcription is the best.

It's also closer to the original than the Liszt (of course) or the Kirchner version.


Mel
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#364539 - 08/29/07 02:48 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17666
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Your rather grandiose mention of said Peters Edition -complete with proper italics and catalogue number (as if that contributes anything to the original post)- gave me a chuckle.

[/b]
Apart from the compliment, do I sense some sarcasm, here, gentle or otherwise?

And as far as contributing "anything" to the original post, Brooklyn Pianist did ask[/b] if there were any edition(s) which had phrasing, and since the Peters does, I suggested it.

I thought - actually I hoped - that I was being quite helpful by contributing precise information. I included the catalog number of the edition in the hope that it might help Brooklyn Pianist find and order that specific edition - with the phrasing he is looking for.

Oh, well; maybe it will help Brooklyn Pianist.

I'm glad you're amused by my "grandiose" efforts to help others. We all need to chuckle once in a while - whatever the source of our amusement.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
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Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#364540 - 08/31/07 04:30 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Brooklyn Pianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Brooklyn
Thanks for all your help so far guys! I was able to start voicing and phrasing on the first few pages yesterday (normally I wait much longer but I couldn't resist) \:\)

Anyways, this is the first time I'm going without a teacher and I have a quick question.

In beat two of measure 23, how would you finger the chord in the left hand? I'm going 5-2-1-2-1, but it's uncomfortable and it makes it hard to land on the top f (the melody) with much control. Is there a trick out there, or is it just an uncomfortable spot?

Link to score:
http://imslp.net/images/b/b1/Liszt_Schumann_Widmung.pdf
_________________________
Currently Studying:
Gottschalk - Souvenir de Porto Rico
Bolcom - Raggin' Rudi
Friedman/Bach - Sheep May Safely Graze
Beethoven - Les Adieux

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#364541 - 08/31/07 04:37 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8696
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Brooklyn Pianist: have you had a chance to hear the original yet?
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Jason

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#364542 - 08/31/07 05:04 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Brooklyn Pianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Brooklyn
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Brooklyn Pianist: have you had a chance to hear the original yet? [/b]
I did download the song from Itunes (I forget the vocalist) I just grabbed it randomly. It's been very helpful for more than just phrasing. It's such a beautiful song and such a fun transcription.

I've been looking for a recording of the Myrthen song cycle on CD, but haven't had any luck.
_________________________
Currently Studying:
Gottschalk - Souvenir de Porto Rico
Bolcom - Raggin' Rudi
Friedman/Bach - Sheep May Safely Graze
Beethoven - Les Adieux

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#364543 - 08/31/07 06:17 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17666
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brooklyn Pianist:
In beat two of measure 23, how would you finger the chord in the left hand? I'm going 5-2-1-2-1, but it's uncomfortable and it makes it hard to land on the top f (the melody) with much control. Is there a trick out there, or is it just an uncomfortable spot?

[/b]
If you're counting in quarter notes, isn't it the 3rd beat? Peters (see above \:D ) has only Db and F in the left hand on that beat, not the full five-note chord that the Schirmer shows.

Your fingering would work for me, but I would also try 5, 3, 2, 1, 2 on that chord if you decide to play it. In either case, it's not the most comfortable chord; one just has to get used to it. I also use 5, 3, 2, 1 on the chord on the first beat, so it would require no fingering change for the common notes (Db, Ab, C) in the two chords.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
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Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#364544 - 09/01/07 12:58 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Since it's in 3/2, the second beat would be on the F (after the Gb in the lh).
When I played this piece, I believe I played 5-4-3-2-1 - shifting the hand quickly from 5 to the 4-3-2-1 position. I may have even considered doing the same, but with 5-5-3-2-1. It's very tricky to pedal, and keep the Db sounding and also connect the rh.

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#364545 - 09/02/07 05:13 PM Re: Widmung - Liszt Transcription
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4974
Loc: boston north
It is interesting that I find this thread at right now.

My tech and I were just discussing the new Eric Himy Schumann CD and that this was one of his favorite pieces and Himy's playing was a great interpretation on the Steingraeber concert grand.

http://www.erichimy.com/cd.htm

So guess what I sight read (some) today? Just might be my next piece to learn.

Earlier in the year I learned Schumann's Arabeske being inspired by the same CD. If you don't know Himy yet, you might want to order this CD. He is fantastic as is the Steingraeber.

LL
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