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#368411 - 10/03/07 12:32 PM fingering for chromatic scales
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
http://youtube.com/watch?v=91Byb28Cp50&mode=related&search=

That's a good fingering. It's the same for starting on a black key, also -- just start on 3 (always 3 on the black keys) and then continue as usual.
_________________________
Sam

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#368412 - 10/03/07 02:27 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17927
Loc: Victoria, BC
That's the fingering that I almost always use for chromatic scales.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#368413 - 10/03/07 02:52 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Robert Kenessy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Enebyberg Sweden
Thanks for posting this. Interesting fingering. Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

By the way, Sam, I hope it's not because of the lukewarm (at best) reception of his hair-do in Pianoworld, that mr. Rudess saw a barber... \:D
_________________________
Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.

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#368414 - 10/03/07 03:11 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
So... you mean that chromatic fingering isn't standard? >_> I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.

The comments in the section below make me grind my teeth... with what emotion, I can't tell.
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#368415 - 10/03/07 03:24 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8841
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Kenessey:
Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

That's the fingering I have always preferred.
_________________________
Jason

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#368416 - 10/03/07 05:27 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Kevin88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 77
I use that fingering also, but I never knew it was "liszt's"

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#368417 - 10/03/07 06:58 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: London
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD: That's the fingering that I almost always use for chromatic scales. [/b]
Same for me. That's how I was taught. I find it very straightforward, and easy to pick up if there is a section of chromatic scale in the middle of a piece.

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#368418 - 10/04/07 12:08 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Pahl Bankschuler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 160
Loc: US
Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books.

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#368419 - 10/04/07 12:28 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
T.S.R. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 231
Loc: Chicago, IL
I think that's pretty much the standard.

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#368420 - 10/04/07 12:38 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
BassoonyPianoKevn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 151
Loc: Maryland
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pahl Bankschuler:
Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books. [/b]
It's funny how you brought that up because my teacher is currently having me play some studies from those books. I find them pretty interesting and would agree they are unconventional.

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#368421 - 10/04/07 02:05 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8841
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pahl Bankschuler:
Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books.
Very interesting, Pahl. As one with the highest admiration for Busoni, I would be curious to see those books.

Myself, I have always found the so-called "Liszt" fingering more to my liking. I've always felt it's given me more reliable velocity and legato in fast chromatic passages. Personally -and IMHO of course- I wouldn't want to use anything else in the "Grave" of the Pathetique or the Liszt B minor Ballade.
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Jason

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#368422 - 10/04/07 08:25 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
iconoclast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 389
Loc: Ancramdale, NY
for the benefit of those of us unable to view youtube, what exactly is Mr. Rudess' proposed fingering?

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#368423 - 10/04/07 08:27 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
1234 1234 1234 (thumb on C, E and G#) sometimes works quite well depending on context,especially where a speedy flourish is required. Though it perhaps takes a while to feel happy with the 'thumb-over' character of getting to the G#...

-Michael B.
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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#368424 - 10/04/07 10:11 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8841
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
1234 1234 1234 (thumb on C, E and G#) sometimes works quite well depending on context,especially where a speedy flourish is required.
Dohnanyi gives that fingering (with left hand using 1432 1432 1432 in parallel) for a chromatic scale up two octaves and down. I've found it helpful for practise, though he doesn't imply its use in actual performance, only as an exercise.
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Jason

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#368425 - 10/04/07 10:42 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Amant Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 310
Loc: Southwest
3-1 fingering, pincered fingertips:
e.g., RH starting on F sharp:
3-1-3-1-3-1-2-3-1-3-1-2-3.....

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#368426 - 10/04/07 10:44 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17927
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by iconoclast:
for the benefit of those of us unable to view youtube, what exactly is Mr. Rudess' proposed fingering? [/b]
Starting on any key :

RH: 3 on all black keys; 1 on all white keys except for 2 on F and C.

LH: 3 on all black keys; 1 on all white keys except for 2 on E and B.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#368427 - 10/04/07 02:31 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Shellman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 133
Loc: East Riding, Yorkshire, Englan...
I was taught 3-1 in the same way as others have stated. I've tried Liszt's fingering but find it uncomfortable but this probably is more due to 27 years of doing it the 3-1 way!!
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Jonathan

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#368428 - 10/04/07 03:24 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17927
Loc: Victoria, BC
I think that the 1-3 fingering will work best for brilliant passages while the 1,2,3,1,2,3,4 fingering probably works best for smooth, legato passages.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#368429 - 10/05/07 03:47 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Robert Kenessy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Enebyberg Sweden
All this fingering discussion makes me wonder whether a chromatic glissando is possible (i.e. black AND white key glissando). One can reach much higher speed than with a finger scale.

Is there any composition than suggests this?

Or am I consciously trying to be innovative \:D ?
_________________________
Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.

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#368430 - 10/05/07 09:48 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
I use BruceD fingering for normal playing.

For training the weaker fingers I practice with
RH: 5343453434345...
LH: 5454543545454...
These are 13 notes starting on C and ending on C.

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#368431 - 10/05/07 01:17 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 2480
Loc: Alexandria, Egypt
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Kenessey:
Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

That's the fingering I have always preferred. [/b]
Yeah me too.

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#368432 - 10/05/07 08:37 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Muzzzz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 80
Loc: Australia
This fingering is used by Busoni in his edition of Liszt's Chasse-Neige, starting on E:

123 1234 12345

It's benificial in that it's the same pattern for every octave, as opposed to the other Liszt fingering which is for 2 octaves.. it's a tad awkward coming down though...

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#368433 - 10/05/07 10:11 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Yep, this is what I was taught as well.

 Quote:
I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.
Or he could just mean "my fingering" as in "the fingering I use"...Which is the way my teacher speaks, the way that I speak, and the way that most people would speak when comparing or teaching fingerings they have learned.

No need to always be condescending....
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#368434 - 10/05/07 10:15 PM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
kwchang007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 33
I've always used 1-3-1-3-1-2-3-1-3-1-3-1-2-3 etc.
_________________________
1977 Mason and Hamlin, Model A, satin ebony-love this piano

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#368435 - 10/06/07 08:50 AM Re: fingering for chromatic scales
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
 Quote:
Originally posted by Theowne:
Yep, this is what I was taught as well.

 Quote:
I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.
Or he could just mean "my fingering" as in "the fingering I use"...Which is the way my teacher speaks, the way that I speak, and the way that most people would speak when comparing or teaching fingerings they have learned.

No need to always be condescending.... [/b]
You can say that when you've originated the fingering, or play that fingering in a piece. But fingering for scales don't really belong to anyone (except for whoever created them) since they've been standardized for the most part.

If he said "my fingering" for a piece he was demonstrating, and then did the editorial fingering versus his fingering, I wouldn't nitpick. Also, "the fingering I use" is to me wholly different than "my fingering". Note that no one in the thread has said, "That's my fingering as well."

As for the Liszt fingering, I tried it and it felt quite uncomfortable passing the thumb underneath the fourth when it's on G. Should I be playing closer to the black keys, or does it always feel that way?
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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