Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Ivory versus plastic tops

A technician suggested there wouldn't be any ivory tops if plastic had always been around. He said ivory would seem cold and rough.

I thought ivory was used because it did have the perfect 'roughness', giving it a nice feel.

If as a pianist you know the difference in feel, what do you like and why?

I prefer ivory because it has a pleasing texture, more so than plastic. But I have no trouble playing on either type.

Some of my colleagues say that they tend to slip on plastic keys if there hands start to sweat. According to them, the ivory has a bit more traction.

I personally prefer the feel of ivory.

Notwithstanding the fact that to play any piano with Ivory keys would be abhorrent to me, the following is intended for anyone contemplating a new piano with Ivory keys (assuming they're still available) - in which case no words of condemnation are strong enough imo...

In this day and age there is NO justification for Ivory key surfaces... Steinway uses plastic - should be good enough. If we must have the 'feel' of Ivory, it can be effectively simulated in plastic.

Ivory piano keys = magnificent endangered animal, slaughtered... DON'T GO THERE!!

...sorry for the rant but I feel so strongly about this

I have a Petrof with ivory keys. Ivory keys are no longer allowed (imported) in the US, not sure about the rest of the world, but this piano was imported in the 80s, prior to this law. Anyways, I also have a Yamaha with plastic keys. I can tell the difference, and the ivory keys do give more traction than the plastic ones. As far as I know, they haven't simulated the feel of ivory in plastic, but then again, I haven't played a new Steinway, so perhaps it's been done.

It's been done on a digital piano - Roland HP 207

It may be that ivory can't be simulated perfectly, but it's pretty close. I don't feel we have anything to complain about here. It's a good thing we can't buy pianos any longer with real ivory.

Tomasino

I really think the whole attraction to Ivory Keys, aside from the longing for "the Golden Age" of pianos, is the fact that they tended to absorb excess moisture from the fingers due to their porosity. Having a more textured, porous surface also made them feel more similar to the ebony sharps that were typical of the same era, thereby eliminating the contrast between the two that might otherwise be felt. The other thing to consider was the fact that pianos of that day were thought of as works of art just as much as they were musical instruments, as evidenced by some of the ornate Victorian wood working and inlays that many pianos displayed. I do agree that, from a practical and ethical standpoint, plastic, "ivorite", etc. makes much more sense. By the way, it is still possible to get ivory keytops. I am currently having my Mason and Hamlin CC2 keyboard completely replaced with all new parts, and one of the options for the new keys I could have chosen was one piece, (no seam at the tail), ivory covered naturals. They, of course, use already existent ivory. I chose not to go this route for many reasons.....not the least of which was the ethical one that celt mentioned.

You must remember that plastic is a petroleum product and look at what that is doing to the world and the animals that reside in it. I think it is horrid that we kill for any reason, especially jewelry, and have been reducing the amount meat in my diet. I eat only some chicken and fish now and not much.

Bone is very hard and I think was part of the reason for the use of it as tops. Maybe we can breed steers for their purity of horns too. Then if you eat meat you can't complain. For me to throw away something that is usable and create the need to extract something else from the enviroment to replace it is a horrid thought too. The ivory today is recycled so in effect is redeeming some of the ethics.

I am asking because I want to know if it is worth recomending replacing over a really good repair. Both can cost the same so it is a matter of what will enchance the technical. Better feel, better playing.

i'm with Celt, and don't feel there's any reason for that material to be used (not to mention where it comes from) when good quality plasitc key tops becomes so readily available and popular. i don't really like playing on some old ivory keys, which feels so rough at some spots and takes my playing enjoyment away...

Never had the chance to try ivory keys.

C H O P I N

Putting the environmental and animal-rights issues aside for one moment, ivory keytops do require more maintenance than plastic keytops. Given their greater porosity, they tend to absorb moisture and dirt from players' hands and they are harder to clean. They also yellow with age, although I understand that the yellowing can be both retarded and treated when it happens.

However, with fewer pianists having the opportunity to experience playing on genuine ivory keytops, I think the question becomes less and less of an issue as time goes by.

Regards,

Celluloid is not a petroleum product. Plastics can be made from a variety of sources.

I posted some photos and recordings in this thread of a Fazioli with Ox-Bone keys:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/16013.html

My wife loved the feel of the keys so much that when I was having our old Steinway console rebuilt, I also had the keytops resurfaced with ox-bone. The keytop vendor also does "wooly mammouth". That's their most expensive material which, if I remember correctly, would have cost me about $3,500. I understand that wooly mammouth is just ivory that's a little older... obtained from prehistoric remains found in Canada which makes it legal.

Howard

You can make plastic from corn now! Wonder if they'll come out with corn keys!

Edible keys.

Your piano would truly be finger-lickin' good.

It is a good thing that ivory keys are no longer available in the U.S. (and I'm sure there are many other countries around the world banning the import of ivory products as well).

Having said that, I see no problem with re-surfacing your keys with ivory if it is salvaged from an old piano or source. The ivory has already been 'harvested', so why should it go to waste? It's perfectly understandable if you just have an aversion to having ivory in your home for any reason. There's no criticism there.

I have an old Steinway with ivory keys. It was built in the late 30's. The keys are still white - no yellowing -however, 4 keys have chips on the very ends. I am hoping to either replace those some day or get them filled in, if possible. As to the 'feel' of ivory vs. plastic: It is true that sweat seems to absorb into the ivory a bit better - I always notice a bit more sweat and stickiness with the plastic keys. Wouldn't it be great if they could find a source for 'natural' keys without having to slaughter an innocent animal?

The problem with trying to salvage old keyboards is that keys are not generally exactly the same size. They are cut from a slab of wood, and usually that has been done by size. If I replace a missing or broken piece of ivory from my supply, I need to go through a lot of pieces before I can find one that comes close to the matching the size of the key (let alone color), and it has to be bigger so I can trim it to match. Even in the unlikely event I had a perfect set of ivories to begin with, matching them to another set of keys would be impossible.

To match an ivory front, I have to start with fronts that come from the same note of the scale, because the sharp notch is polished after the ivory is in place. This curves the back of the key front where the back strip of ivory meets it, which would leave a dip at the joint. This in turn lets you feel the sharp edge of the key back. It is hard enough getting that joint so you cannot feel it. I bet if any of you have ivory keys where either the front or back has come loose at one point, there is a bump at the joint. I can only make a good joint by sanding the joint even after the front and back have been glued to the key.

As you can imagine, you might be able to get a few pieces of ivory repaired, but it is not long before it is cheaper to replace the entire keyboard with plastic. Replacing keytops with plastic requires a lot of trimming, as they come oversized for just the reasons I mentioned, so it is not cheap, but compared to ivory, it is a bargain.

Celluloid has not been used for decades. It is very highly flamable. Camera film used to be made from celluloid. That is the reason so many movie theatres used to burn down - the film ingnited under the heat of the arc projection lamps and started to burn. That type of film was then replaced with a plastic film. Hence the word "Kodak Safety Film" on the edges of negatives and slides. But I haven't seen to much of that around in the last while either...