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#391152 - 11/28/01 03:44 PM Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
trance Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 43
Loc: OZ
Hi everyone....

I'm having real trouble with this piece, in particular the fingering for bars 5-8 and the fingering for the left hand parts bars 9-end.

The fingering I'm using right now isn't quite working and any help you could give would be much appreciated \:\)
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trance

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#391153 - 11/28/01 05:59 PM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
charms Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
hallo!
http://chopinfiles.com/Opus10-12.html

has a really good fingering throughout the whole. hope it helps :-)

-charms

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#391154 - 11/28/01 07:07 PM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
CDSheridan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 27
I'm working on this etude right now. Here's the fingering that I'm using. I find that I'm very satisfied with this fingering.

Measure 5 (descending passage): right hand 43214321... left hand 2124312431...

Measures 6 and 7:

C B G F Eb D Eb D C B Bb Ab G F G F...
2 1 5 4 3 2 4 3 2 1 5 4 3 2 4 3... (RH)
4 5 1 2 3 4 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 2 3... (LH)

For the rest of the Etude, I'd imagine that the fingering problems lie in the left hand. So for the CGCDEbGCDEbDC... pattern and all other similiar figurations, my fingering is

C G C D Eb G C D Eb...
5 2 1 4 3 2 1 3 2... (same fingering going down.)

For measures 15 and 16: 5142124151421241...

For measures 17 and 18: For the chromatic figurations make sure that the thumb falls on a white key every time. This is the fingering I use: starting from the Db 241324131323132323... (the following scale finger the same way as for a C minor scale.)

For measures 25 and 26:

D Bb Cb Bb (Bb an octave higher) Bb Cb Bb...
5 3 2 3 1 3 2 3

(Or, you could do 52131323 if it's more comfortable for you.)

For measure 27:

F Bb D F Bb D G F F D Bb G F Eb C F
5 3 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 2 3 5 1 2 3 5

(Since this etude will be played so quickly, the gap between the G and the F with the 5-1 crossover will not be noticed. Especially if you're going to be using pedal at this point.)

Measure 28: starting from the Db 212312341234231...

Measures 29-32: starting from F## 54215421... Use similar fingering when coming back down.

For the scale patterns (measures 33-36, 66, 68), several different fingerings will work. Try to have the thumb fall on a white key every time.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions speak up.

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#391155 - 11/28/01 11:16 PM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
CDSheridan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 27
Now that you bring up Chopin etudes, I just feel like posting this. I don't know why I decided to post this; maybe to show off how full of utterly useless knowledge I am?

So anyway, more than half of Chopin's Opus 10 and 25 etudes have at least one nickname. Here's the list... along with how they got the nickname:

Opus 10:

Number 1: C major

Number 2: A minor

Number 3: E major- "Tristesse" This means sadness. Listen to this etude and you'll probably see that there is some degree of melancholy to this etude.

Number 4: C sharp minor- "Presto" or "Torrent" Because the tempo of this piece is Presto and it's a torrent of sixteenth notes (but then again, so are many of Chopin's other etudes.)

Number 5: G flat major- "Black Keys" The right hand is played entirely on the black keys, except for one note.

Number 6: E flat minor

Number 7: C major- "Toccata" Because it resembles a toccata.

Number 8: F major

Number 9: F minor

Number 10: A flat major

Number 11: E flat major- "Harp" The rolled chords of this etude resemble the sounds of a harp.

Number 12: C minor- "Revolutionary" or "Fall of Warsaw" This etude was supposed to depict the fall of Warsaw.

Opus 25:

Number 1: A flat major- "Aeolian Harp" or "Shepherd Boy" The arpeggios imitate an Aeolian Harp (Please note: one would not be able to play this etude on an Aeolian Harp. An Aeolian Harp lacks some of the notes a piano has.) As for Shepherd Boy, I guess somebody thought this etude depicted a shepherd boy.

Number 2: F minor- "Bees" or "Balm" The chromatic figurations somewhat resemble the buzzing sound of bees. As for "Balm" I have no clue where that nickname came from.

Number 3: F major- "Cartwheels" This would probably also be a fitting name for Opus 10 Number 8, wouldn't it? I guess the figurations here is supposed to resemble the motion of cartwheels.

Number 4: A minor

Number 5: E minor- "Wrong Note" The sixteenth notes and the grace notes in the beginning and the end make it seem like the pianist is playing quite a lot of wrong notes.

Number 6: G sharp minor- "Thirds" A torturous little study in thirds.

Number 7: C sharp minor- "Cello" The sound of this etude is similar to that of a cello.

Number 8: D flat major- "Sixths" An even more torturous little study in sixths.

Number 9: G flat major- "Butterfly" The happy, carefree nature of this piece gave it its nickname.

Number 10: B minor- "Octaves" A still even more torturous little endurance run in octaves.

Number 11: A minor- "Winter Wind" This is also a torturous endurance run, and the right hand figurations imitate the howling of the winter wind.

Number 12: C minor- "Ocean" The sweeping arpeggios in the left and right hand imitate the surging waves of the ocean.

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: CDSheridan ]

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#391156 - 11/29/01 12:41 AM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
magnezium Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 722
Loc: Singapore
I think it is worth mentioning that none of these nicknames came from Chopin himself, but were created by others, like Schumann. Thus, none of these nicknames truly reflect the music, so when you play or listen to these pieces you shouldn't have the nickname in your mind. The nicknames were created probably just for ease of mentioning these pieces, instead of reciting full opus numbers. Other than that, these nicknames serve only to trivialize some of Chopin's greatest pieces...

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#391157 - 12/02/01 02:26 AM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
What about the "Three New Etudes" No. 1 (F Minor), No. 2 (Ab Major), and No. 3 (Db Major)? Do any of these have nicknames?
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#391158 - 12/02/01 03:07 AM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
trance Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 43
Loc: OZ
Sorry to be a nuisance CDSheridan but I am stil a little confused about this part:

Originally posted by CDSheridan[/b]

 Quote:
For the rest of the Etude, I'd imagine that the fingering problems lie in the left hand. So for the CGCDEbGCDEbDC... pattern and all other similiar figurations, my fingering is

C G C D Eb G C D Eb...
5 2 1 4 3 2 1 3 2... (same fingering going down.)


The fingering I was using was 5.2.1.3.2...

The transition from the 1 to the 4th finger is a bit too hard so I was wondering if you (or anyone else) could figure a fingering for this part but replacing the 5214 with 5213 (if you know what I mean)??

I can barely reach the 1st to the 4th finger change, and going down (d# d c g c g c d d#...) is even more hard.

Thanks again for your help \:\)
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trance

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#391159 - 12/02/01 04:43 PM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
charms Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Trance 2001:

The fingering I was using was 5.2.1.3.2...

The transition from the 1 to the 4th finger is a bit too hard so I was wondering if you (or anyone else) could figure a fingering for this part but replacing the 5214 with 5213 (if you know what I mean)??

[/b]


well, if you use 5-2-1-3-2, you could go (ascending) 5-2-1-3-2-1-3-2-1 or 5-2-1-3-2-1-4-3-2. however, i would suggest you use the 521432123 fingering and work on it a bit, as the other fingerings are even more awkward. then again, just my opinion \:\)

-charms..

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#391160 - 12/02/01 11:34 PM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
Trance,

I also use the following fingering in the place you were asking about:

C G C D Eb G C D Eb
5 2 1 4 3 2 1 3 2 etc.

What did you mean when you said you could barely reach the 1 to 4 transition? The notes are next to each other... or did I misunderstand?

FWIW, in the chromatic passage in measures 17 and 18 I end up with 1 on the top Bb and use 123. So both measures work out to be the following:


LH: 5134231324131423 1423123123123124 5

I like ending up with my thumb at the top. You need to really get your hand rocking to make it up to the top though!

Ryan

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#391161 - 12/03/01 02:14 AM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
trance Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 43
Loc: OZ
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ryan:
What did you mean when you said you could barely reach the 1 to 4 transition? The notes are next to each other... or did I misunderstand?


Oops this is my fault, sorry for the mis-understanding Ryan. What I meant to mean is the actual "process" of crossing the 4th finger to the 1st finger is a little hard for me, which is why the 52132..... is easier but I suppose the 5214... takes a little more practice but if it's the best way then I might as well try it. Hope this clarifies things.

Thanks again. \:\)

[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: trance ]
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trance

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#391162 - 12/03/01 08:14 AM Re: Chopin Revolutionary Etude....help please!!!!!
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
Trance,

Thanks for the clarification. I should have known that's what you meant.

1 to 4 becomes a lot easier if you use your arm to sweep your hand up and down the keys. Don't make your fingers do all the work. As you sweep your hand, let your fingers fall onto the correct keys. In this instance, by the time you play one, your hand should be far enough over that you just have to put down the 4 and have it hit the correct note. Same with going down, by the time you play 1 your hand should be far enough over to easily put 4 on the correct note. You must let your arms do the work of carrying your fingers to the correct notes in this piece, otherwise your fingers are going to die by the second page \:\)

Hope that makes sense.

Ryan

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