Why can't people just keep their hands on the keyboard? What's so important about making huge, flailing arm gestures? After listening to an otherwise fine recital this evening I couldn't stand the over-the-top-hands-and-arms-going-everywhere BS that the pianist was pulling. When used sparingly, physical gestures can add something interesting to a performance, but I believe that overuse is, at best, a waste of musical energy. HEY GUYZ LOOK AT ME, LOL!

Bottom line: gestures don't change the sound that comes out of the instrument and, in my opinion, are very annoying to look at.

I know what you mean. I prefer watching Hamelin(who is still as a rock) over someone like LangLang who tries to impress with extraneous movements.

i do agree with you 100%. i saw Zimmerman playing the other day with amazement. his fingers almost felt like closely touching the keyboard all the time, and his movements were just so economic and minimum, and seemed nothing extra wasted. even his necessary hand jumps didn't even look that big, and yet great sound was produced. the only huge gestures he made probably were only at the end of a piece.

some people are full of movement...

I know what you mean. It can get pretty annoying to watch people make unnessesary gestures while performing.

However, I do love watching Glen Gould play.(On tv of course) He is absolutely amazing when it comes to hand gestures. I remember watching a video of him playing something by Bach and when the right hand had long periods of rest, he would conduct himself with that hand. It's amazing yet humerous to watch.

Never heard of Glen Gould? Well you should try to pick up a video of him playing. It's really amazing how this man plays the piano!
-Paul

I saw Andre Watts 25 years ago in Phili and still remember his facial expressions more than his playing. I'm going to see him again next Wednesday. He's playing three Scarlatti sonatas along with leigiti and Liszt. Should be interesting.

... and some, like Lang Lang, are just full of crap.

I love the way he hunches over the keyboard, face almost touching the keys sometimes. He is a piano teacher's worst nightmare. His posture is non existent.

And how about that chair?

I love it!

Do you think that Alfred Brendel's movements are too extreme? I recently bought a DVD of him playing Hammerklavier, and his hands really leap off the keys at times in a way that seems artificial to me.

Some people, like Gould, use seemingly unnecessary movements because it makes them feel more comfortable while playing.

My rule for body movement: If you have to concentrate on how your body is moving, you're doing too much.

I don't agree with people who say that facial expressions and body movement are indispensable to an aspiring performer. I use body movement when it will make the piece sound better, not to get attention. Look at Rubinstein! Straight back, chin up, little or no expression, and yet he was a famous performer.

I remember that a video of a man playing Chopin's preludes with wild hand gestures was posted here a while ago. Can anyone repost it?

Edit: I remember that valarking posted it.

I agree some of it can be over the top..

I don't quite agree with that, gestures DO change teh sound.. unfortunately, not generally in a good way, which makes them unnecessary. I know for example when I play Bach, the articulation changes when I introduce even slight "romanticism" into my arms and upper body vs. when I try to really economize all movements.

the body should move, but it should be natural and unconscious.


-Paul

Can't you just shut your eyes?

If some one makes awful noise, it's hard to shut the ears. But the eyes are easy to shut.

I agree as well, I prefer a no BS get down to business performance to a lot of fluff and no substance. I'm there to listen more than to watch. Funny how you see this arm flailing stuff with so many classical pianists, and so few jazz pianists.

Jamie

One of the problem with excessive movement is that audience (I mean general public unfamiliar to piano playing) thinks such movement is the 'product' or 'by-product' of musicianship when it is only a mean to produce music.

If movement happens, it happens...planning the grand gesture is what is cheesey.

Re:Gould...he is an amazing player although I am not always in agreement with his musical ideas. The singing drives me up the wall. It's so bizarre and tic-like, it's like Rain Man plays Bach. (your mileage may vary...I realize there are a load of folks who think that his vocal continuo is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Ick)

He does move alot, one good moment is in the finale (Fugue), in which there is this passage going up and down and at the end, he throws his hands in the air....

but I love 'im.

I do not have a technique so proficient that I can afford to waste what energy I do possess on superfluous gestures. The only time I do get physically carried away is when I am deep in an improvisation, but as nobody is ever watching it can't be theatrical. A leg came off the stool at such a moment the other night and I hit the floor - gave me a hell of a fright. I've had that stool for thirty-three years. I have a proper concert stool but it creaks so I kept on using the old one.

After that little episode I swapped stools and the old one, with new screws, can do duty with the practice clavier. It turned out for the best because to stop the concert stool creaking I wound it right down, discovering in the process that I played much better with it in that position. So all's well that ends well.

Overall, I prefer economy of movement.

We know you love Lang Lang's perfomances valarking, I bet you have that Carneggie debut CD signed by him.

I can stand some facial expression and little gestures (LITTLE) but inaproppiate movements can be very anoying. Even simple things like to drop the hands and look anywhere during a fermata, can destroy all the atmposphere.

So your saying you would rather watch someone play a piano like a secretary typing away at a keyboard in the office?

IMO if they sound good when they play I could care less how much they are flailing around. For some I think that is their way of getting a deeper musical expression.

Never seen Lang Lang perform though.. is he really that bad?

Maybe for some, but with other people it is so painfully obvious that they are faking it. I wish I could use someone other than Gould as an illustration, but you can easily tell that his movements are genuine.

No, what I'm saying is that I'd like to see a little more control. Histrionics tell me that the pianist has nothing interesting to say about the music and that he or she has to play to the lowest common denominator to get any effect.

Watch the golden age guys; no histrionics, just phenomenal playing.

koji (STSD)

yes.

koji (STSD)

Exactly - they didn't need to do any of that because they knew how to excite people with their playing.

Wasn't histrionics invented later with computers and the internet?

(Is it me or does that word sound like some type of study of super computers.. )

HARDY HAR HAR

^___________________________^

We once had a student recital where this one guy played Beethoven's Tempest Sonata. Well, this guy was also known for moving around when he played- A LOT.

In the middle of one of the movements, he started rocking in circles so much it was making me seasick. The circles got wider and wider, until "CRACK!" He ACTUALLY HIT HIS HEAD on the piano. It was very funny, and after a second of stunned silence he continued on, with a little less motion.

Gosh gosh! Here i am laughing till tears well up, i dont know if its the way you phrased that or my imagination! twas sure helluva music scene to watch.
And those who think Lang Lang is bad, have you seen Li yundi?? I swear is hes excruciating pain.

i know of a pianist [Zachary Provost] who plays piano for a my favorite vocalist of mine [who'll remain anonymous], and is talented and all, but jerks either of his hands [mainly left, even though he's a rightie] in the air while playing, which makes me cringe everytime he does it. then not only that, he bobs his head emphatically, and make these dramatic facial expressions when he's really into the music [which doesn't really bother me].
then there's another pianist that's a part of the brother-trio Hanson [MMMBop], Taylor Hanson [21], who stands up and play the piano as if it were a drum [or like he's angry at it], pounding on it as if all the pianos were going to disapear tommorow, and sings at the same time, as if to show off to the audience [look what I can DO!!!], which makes me cringe and is quite annoying. Burt Bacharach is guilty of the same thing that i described of the above musicians.
i mean, PLAY THE PIANO LIKE A HUMAN BEING AND ACT LIKE YOU GOT SOME SENSE!!! *gives ADHD pills to the above pianists* SIT YOU BUTT DOWN ON THE FRIGGIN' BENCH [That's what they invented them for], SIT STILL, AND STOP PLAYING LIKE AN IDIOT THAT'S GOT ANTS IN YOUR PANTS! ACTING LIKE A FOOL WON'T MAKE THAT PIANO SOUND ANY BETTER. AND THEY STILL MAKE PIANOS, THE LAST TIME I CHECKED.
then there's that part where they take their foot in rock music and play the piano with it. ugh. but i wish i had that amazing ability, though, and currently working on it.
and you're right, Jamie, few jazz pianists do that b/c you can easily mess up those 1/32 notes that are so close together.

I remember watching "Star Search" on TV and there was this girl about age 9 years old and she was doing all the facial stuff as well -- closing her eyes, etc., and my guess is it wasn't natural, but things she saw other performers do and decided to copy them. I can't believe a 9 year old would naturally act that way. Maybe her piano instructor told her to act that way?

-i think you're right ilikemozart. when we watch our favorite performers, and like their technique, we tend to imimtate it, which i find annoying, b/c you're being someone you're not.
-i also happen to think that her piano instructor told her to do it, too. i saw an episode of American Idol and the week after the judges told them they were putting their heart and soul into the performance, they then decided to act mechanically, making all of these exaggerated facial and bodily movements, which didn't match the bad way they were singing.

I like Andre Watts, but you're right about the facial expressions. As apt as they usually are, it's distracting. In one music class we watched a video of his Carnegie Hall anniversary concert, I think it was, and he played Rachmaninov and Liszt concertos. The music was very nice, but at one point he made a face that had the whole class bust out laughing.

o man.. extraneous movements just annoy the heck out of me. I mean, it's one thing if it's obviously natural and not too over the top, but... well actually facial expressions bug me much more. I also get annoyed when ridiculous extra movement is mistaken for musicality. whatever... And it really does affect your sound. In my lesson today my teacher was just showing me the difference in sound when I just played without really thinking (which included too much wrist and a slight lean to the right for upper register) and when I tried to minimize and control my movements. the latter was much nicer. Although I guess maybe some people can pull off all of the flailing. *snaps for them*