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I'm reading Szulc's "Chopin in Paris". Near the beginning he states that Chopin was almost definitely bipolar(or possibly Schizoid). I have only read one other Chopin bio(Chopin's Funeral) and this topic never came up.

So, for those of you have read more Chopin bios than me, is Chopin being bipolar
1. generally thought to be true by biographers
2. usually not thought to be true
or not mentioned
3. somewhere in between

Thanks.

He certainly imbibed plenty of opium in the form of Laudanum throughout his life. It was the only thing 19th century medicine had to suppress his coughing.

Fred frequently had great difficulty breathing. Now, kiddies, try holding your breath for half an hour or until you turn purple and it not only has a debilitating effect on your physique, it kinda makes you crazy from oxygen deprivation to the old brainy brain. Not a happy experience...

I'm pretty sure he was though you're going to get a lot of argument against it from some of the the Devoted members. I'm also manic depressive and I recognize the symptoms he describes in his letters. The most telling thing about the Stuttgart diary is the fact that he welcomed tears. The fact that he was now able to write that grief striken testament, the fact that he was able to weep was a sign he was emerging from a paralysing bout of depression, originally brought on by learning of the fall of Warsaw. With this particular disorder and depression in general an external event can trigger grief that can takes on a pathological life of its own.

Very interesting observation. In the book I mentioned Szulc makes the argument that the fall of Warsaw and Chopin's ever worsening tuberculosis are what triggered his manic depression at around the age of 20.

I’m one of the people from the Devoted to Chopin thread who doesn’t believe that Chopin was bipolar. (And I believe the jury is still out on this subject, to answer the OP’s question.) Mr. Szulc must have some kind of knowledge that no one else has been privy to to make such a bold statement (almost definitely?). Even worse...schizoid!! How can any author make such a statement?

I am bipolar, myself, but unlike Frycek, I do not see the same symptoms as she does. Or, at least, I can’t necessarily attribute them to this disorder.

One of the biggest “giveaways” is making very unwise decisions. But other than deciding to move in with George Sand, (and this is just my personal opinion), Chopin was fairly level-headed, even as a young man. Yes, he did get depressed (who doesn’t) and with very good reason. But the fact that his depression was not that black that he was still able to compose seems to contradict this belief. Anyone who has been depressed (as in the depressed state of manic-depressive) knows that it is a good day to be able to get out of bed, let alone compose some of the world’s most beautiful music.

And the manic phase can literally have one climbing the walls with energy, the mind going a mile a minute, almost making it impossible to concentrate or focus on anything for any length of time. Again, Chopin would not have composed what he did if he were bouncing off the walls half the time.

Now I do believe that he *might* have been more of an OC person (obsessive-compulsive). He would labor at his music for hours upon days to get just the right note or chord. Then after a thousand changes, he would go back to his original. But even after a composition had been published, he would once again, change his mind. Some might call this trying to achieve perfection. But whatever it is, it is not (to my knowledge and from my experience) a sign of bipolar. He was extremely concerned about his appearance to the point of (almost) a compulsion. His reasons were quite acceptable (that an artist must always look his best), but even he complained that he spent a small fortune on white gloves.

I could give more examples, but these are the best I can do right off the top of my head. There is also strong evidence to support the premise that bipolar can and often is hereditary (since it is caused by a chemical imbalance). As far as I know, no one in Chopin’s family suffered the symptoms of this disorder.

JMHO,
Kathleen

I feel that Chopin had so much in his life to make him sad: death of a teenage sister who was very close to him, exile from his beloved country and family, loss of his fiancee, increasing bad health etc etc - that it's surprising he wasn't more depressed than he was. But I'm no expert.

(Sorry - double post.)

To me, the real question is: what difference does it make? We have his gorgeous music. If he was bipolar (a chemical condition, by the way, which cannot be caused by catastrophe, even the fall of Warsaw), his music is gorgeous. If he was not, his music is gorgeous. The only situation in which it might matter would be if he was a spectacular composer BECAUSE he was bipolar. Even then it does not matter, really, except to make a point about the wonderful contributions that can be made to art by persons who are mentally ill.

In any event, we will never know. That fact actually strengthens what I said in my first paragraph. 1. It does not matter. 2. We will never know. So why waste energy speculating?

I believe I at least implied that, hopefully indicating that the fall of Warsaw was the trigger , not the cause of what was a very serious depressive episode, whether chemically prolonged or not. From my original post:

he was emerging from a paralysing bout of depression, originally brought on by learning of the fall of Warsaw. With this particular disorder and depression in general an external event can trigger grief that can takes on a pathological life of its own.

A young British composer who suffers from Tourette's syndrome has divined, from listening to the music of Mozart, that he, too, must have suffered from the condition and devoted an hour-long TV programme to the subject in an attempt to prove his theory. I remain unconvinced; as far as I know there's not one piece of documentary evidence to support the claim.
I suspect that this theory about Chopin is, similarly, just conjecture. It's more likely, judging from the terms of endearment Chopin used in his youthful letters to his male friends, that he was bisexual.
By the way, Mary Rose, what a lovely dog!

Robert Schumann is an obvious musical example of this, though many have been unfairly dismissive of the quality of his later works.

The first that came into my mind, though, was British artist Louis Wain . I first learned of him in elementary school, where my classroom had a ca. 1964 Time-Life volume called The Mind; the riveting images in it were engraved in my own mind ever after.

As charming as Wain's "sane" works are in their depictions of cats (and occasionally other animals, too), especially in anthropomorphic settings, the art he created after he was fully 'round the bend with schizophrenia is unrivaled in magnificence (as portraits of cats go, anyway!):



Now that's not something you see every day!

Steven

I have a feeling that I speak for all of us that we couldn't care less about what disorder or disease Chopin *might* have had. As RPA has stated: "What difference does it make?" Aside, of course, as a possible inspiration to those who suffer from a disability.

And yes, MaryRose, being the sensitive person that he was, he most definitely suffered depression caused by events in his life that would have sent a lot of us over the edge.

But, Wood-Demon, I must set you straight a bit about those terms of endearment Chopin used in his letters. At first glance, they would have many wondering, but it was VERY COMMON in those days to address treasured friends (of the same or different gender) with flowery and loving salutations. Chopin had great affection for many of his male friends for he grew up with them and shared many happy times together. It was common (and being Polish I can speak from experience) to not only hug but kiss EVERYONE, not on both cheeks as is done with the French, but actually on the lips. I believe this is still a Polish tradition.

If you read Chopin's letters, you must have noticed the wonderful sense of humor he had and his obvious concern for practically everyone he knew.

There is no evidence that Chopin was bisexual, but even if it were true...again, what difference does it make? His music transcends everything, as I know you would agree.

P.S. I had better add a postscript to this less some might think that I think that Chopin was perefect. He was not. He was human and exhibited many of the same behaviors that most of us do.

My best,
Kathleen

Szulc says in his book that the way Chopin addresed his best friend was very typical of the way people wrote letters in those days and is in now way an indication of his being bisexual.

You certainly don't speak for me or the author of the book I mentioned. And I doubt you speak for "all(the rest)of us" either.

If Chopin was bipolar it would be a major influence on his entire life and work and certainly an important point to included in a bio. When people say " who cares?" as long as he wrote beautiful music, I think they're really saying that being bipolar should not be thought of as a negative thing a I cerainly agree.

But it would be certainly as importnt as virtually anything else in his life, so if it is "not important" why should anyone write anything else about Chopin's life? In fact, why should anyone write a biography?

In Szulc's book he just doesn't say he think Chopin was bipolar and give no supporting facts.
I will try later to write another post with his supporting ideas. Of course, this doesn't mean Szulc was correct in his opinion, it just shows he wasn't certainly was not just giving some thoughtless opinion.

Thanks, Wood-demon I think so too.

He's raring to get to know Sotto Voce's psychedelic cats.

As Kathleen already mentioned, there's no evidence he was bisexual.

But, FWIW, the fact that such displays of same-sex affection were "normal" doesn't mean he wasn't, either.

Steven

At the risk of "stirring the pot," Chopin wrote a lot of letters to a lot of male friends. If the effusiveness and desire for osculation was so commonplace in the correspondence of Polish males why are his letters to Tytus the only ones that raise our eyebrows today?

Tytus was by far his closest friend so Chopin might not have written to others in the same manner. Just because the way Chopin wrote to Tytus was common in Polish society, it doesn't mean that everyone wrote to everyone else in that manner.

Sounds like propaganda from the p$ychiatric e$tabli$hment.