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A few quotes from Szulc's book that give some evidence of why *Szulc* thinks Chopin was bipolar. I am not saying that I know or am even quite certain he was bipolar. If that was the case, I wouldn't have bothered to ask this in my original post. There are numerous other references to Chopin being bipolar listed in the index of the book. I will try to add them as I read them. I'm only on page 95:


page59:

"He suffered from typically manic-depressive mood swings that were as violent as his shifts from major to minor in the same composition.....During attacks of rage he smashed chairs, broke pencils, and heaped invective on hapless piano students or visitors. A former student reported that he at least once had seen Chopin's hair stand on end like a dog's hackles. When deeply depressed, he shut himslef in his room for days, weeping softly."

page 40:
" Most psychiatric analysis of Chopin's mental health, based on correspondence, memoirs, and early biographies, does suggest strongly that he was a schizoid or manic dpressive type."

True, but virtually nothing could prove he wasn't homosexual so I think your point has minimal weight.

Yikes, I can see that this thread is going to become another series of posts that will change no one's mind and become more fodder for those who think opinions are biased, which, of course, they are.

I apologize for believing that I spoke for (all) others in stating that his music transcends any physical and/or mental problems he may have had. I happen to believe it is sublime.

And, just using one author's opinion does not make your case a valid or solid one.

So, off I go, never to return, for I just don't see the point in arguing something that CAN NOT be proven.

Kathleen

What's your point, then? Szulc says the letters don't prove he was bi, you say nothing can prove he wasn't homosexual.

Does Szulc, or do you, find any evidence that could prove anything at all about his sexuality?

Steven

If you read my post where i quote Szulc's book, I specifically said that it was only the author's opinion. And in my OP I stated I was interested in finding out what other people had read about Chopin because I had only read one other Chopin bio.

Since medical science in Chopin's time had no way of proving bipolar disorder it's certainly true one can never prove Chopin was bipolar. And I don't see in this thread any need to "argue".

The idea is simply to present other author's/poster's opinions on this topic. If there is a huge consensus one way or the other although it doesn't prove anything, it would be good evidence of probability.

It's just an interesting topic. I don't see the need for something to be provable as a condition for discussion.

To express my opinion that your statement doesn't have much weight in terms of its logic.

You might as well say,"the fact that eating at McDonald's is popular, doesn't mean he wasn't homosexual either."

Having gotten sidetracked, I hope this thread can get back on topic. Was Chopin bipolar?

Um what are you guys smoking? Chopin had a female lover, he wasn't a freaking homo.

Yeah, but he still wanted to kiss his best buddy.

Re bipolar - In answer to Pianoloversus, no, the ideal of Chopin being bipolar is by no means generally accepted. I happen to think he might have been based on literally personal experience. Kathleen concludes the opposite for exactly the same reason. So there you are.

Love your logic, PLUS, and love the McDonald's reference, too. But you should have chosen Burger King, where you can "have it your way."

NT, if you think that a "freakin homo" can't have a female lover, you don't get out much. But then using terminology like "freakin homo" for a gay man isn't exactly worldly—unless, of course, you are one and thus have insider's rights to intentionally ironic usage.

Steven

As stated in my OP, I really hope to hear from people who have read several biographies of Chopin about whether or not the authors mention Chopin was bipolar.

I think one can assume that most good authors would have spent a huge amount of time investigating Chopin's mental state and all other aspects of his life. For example, besides Szulc's enormous bibliography he actually visited all eight places in Paris where Chopin lived. (This doesn't mean his ideas are necessarily correct)

I agree that knowing (speculating, in the best academic tradition) whether he was bipolar is interesting at many levels. In particular, the relationship of bipolar disorder to creativity or more specifically the impact of neurotransmitter / chemical imbalance on higher functions of the brain, which of course are very difficult to define, not counting the impossibility to map them anatomically or functionally. I am not a psychiatrist but I dare say that the "science" of psychiatry" is not there yet.
Which brings me back to the question I posed a while back about DNA access. It is possible that additional cues about his personality may be revealed by his DNA some day. I will leave the question of homosexuality and DNA out of this speculative bit..

You meant idea, but that was an interesting "slip", Frycek!

I have read quite a few biographies myself. Szulc is the only one who brought the bipolar business up. Unfortunately (or not) and concrete first hand descriptions of the violent fits of temper etc on which Szulc bases this conclusion are not that easy to come by. Which makes one wonder, especially as Szulc does tend to distort primary sources to mean what he wants them to mean.

We have to keep in mind that he was most likely, as suggested here, on some kind of opiate for his respiratory condition.

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0006322304007425

Here is the abstract from the article.

Depression is common among opiate-dependent patients and has been associated with worse prognosis. This article reviews the literature on treatment of depressive disorders and symptoms among patients with opiate dependence. Depression bears a complex relationship to opiate dependence and may represent an independent disorder or may be engendered by psychosocial stress or toxic and withdrawal effects of drugs. Primary treatments for opiate dependence (e.g., methadone or buprenorphine maintenance or residential treatment) are associated with substantial improvements in depression. Studies of antidepressant medications have produced mixed results, some positive but more negative. It is not clear what accounts for these differences, and more research is needed to determine how to select opiate-dependent patients most likely to benefit from antidepressants. Fewer studies have examined psychosocial or behavioral interventions, but some of these also show promise. The data suggest a stepped model of care in which depression is evaluated and observed during the outset of treatment for opiate dependence and if it does not improve, specific psychosocial interventions or antidepressant medications tried. Research is needed on such integrated models of care and treatment algorithms to determine their efficacy and cost effectiveness.

###

So having read this, and interestingly enough, I actually studied this in one of my college classes - Chemical dependency in the workplace.

If he was on opium then this would cause the big emotional swings when he was going through the withdrawl stages away from his medication. The physicians at the time were not as adept at diagnosis as they are today, and probably didn't link the two together.

Even still, who cares. I agree with Kathleen. He wrote some of the most beautiful music ever in the history of mankind.

John

Well, if you were really serious about Chopin, I'd think you would need to be thinking about taking up opium for a while, to advance your insight into his art. I mean, it's not as if people can actually know in any authentic first-hand way whether they think it makes a big difference in what he wrote, without doing that, right?

Maybe you ought to try smoking the same. Ever hear of freaking homo Saint-Saens, with a wife and kids? Or of Leonard Bernstein? Or of Vladimir Horowitz? Just a starter kit, for your education.

I think many of the great people in the arts, especially in music had mental health issues, though many people suffer from more than one (anxiety and depression is one of the most common combinations). Though sometimes I wonder why Chopin didn't write any music that doesn't include a piano--what could that suggest?

Meri

That he just loved the piano soooo much?

Perhaps he was, yet Schumann, Beethoven, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and Scriabin all had similiar melancholic leanings.

But did they have the manic highs also?

I tried googling bipolar composers and manic depressive composers and could only find two sites with a "list"(they didn't include Chopin):

http://www.clipmarks.com/clipmark/9EAB14FE-BBBB-48D1-9BA8-E6B1FD62BA6B/

http://www.pendulum.org/information/information_famous_music.html

Can anyone else find other sites with lists of bipolar composers or reference biographies they've read that either mention or do not mention that Chopin was bipolar?