Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#39921 - 11/02/04 06:42 PM Bechstein Info. Please
OrganGrinder Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles
We recently looked at a new Bechstein Grand Piano(black), 6'4" and was quoted a price of about 32K out the door plus our old (30 yrs?) Baldwin grand. This is wayyyyy over my budget but my wife fell in lust. Is this a fair price? Their website is not too helpful at all. Is this piano as great as the salesman claims it is? What other comparable German/American or ??? pianos might be a better value (less money!). I'm not the player, just the payer!

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#39922 - 11/02/04 07:00 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
Grotriman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 724
Loc: New York City
What model was it?
_________________________
Regards,

Grotriman

Top
#39923 - 11/02/04 07:45 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
OrganGrinder Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles
I don't recall the model name. I didn't know that there was more than one in that size. All I know is that it is:

A "Bechstein", black, made in Germany, 6'4" (190cm), new, and really expensive!

Sorry, I'll call tomorrow and find out the model.

Top
#39924 - 11/02/04 08:33 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
ChrisKeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1274
Loc: Dallas, TX
It would also be important to say the age and model of the Baldwin you're trading in.

Chris

Top
#39925 - 11/03/04 03:15 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
vivian Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 13
Loc: Hong Kong
I didn't try the grand one, but the upright one impressed me so much! (of course, it's very expensive !:>)

Top
#39926 - 11/03/04 05:30 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
otherside Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 145
Perhaps interesting to know is that Bechstein recently changed its models, so there are old and new ones.
Also there is a new ( more economical ) line which is called "Bechstein" ( not C. Bechstein ), which seems to resurrect old models of say 100 years ago.

Top
#39927 - 11/03/04 06:23 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6174
See this post: C.Bechstein vs. Bechstein , and the follow-up responses if you can.
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

Top
#39928 - 11/03/04 01:01 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
OrganGrinder Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles
Axtremus,

Thanks for the link but I'm even more confused now. The string you directed me to poses more questions and there is no resolution that I can find. Now I'm wondering where the piano we are looking at is actually "made". Sounds like the technical chief from C.Bechstein is being careful to only say that the Bechstein is "engineered" by C. Bechstein.

To answer some previous questions in order to clarify my quiry:

We are considering a "Bechstein 190", polished black, which the dealer says is "made in Berlin by C. Bechstein".

We are trading-in our Baldwin "M" which we are told was made in 1968 and is in good condition except the bench is not the original matching bench.

The total price including tax, delivery, tuning, bench and warranty is $31,700 plus our Baldwin.

We were told by another dealer today that the "Bechstein" piano is "made in Korea", not Germany. Of course they are trying to sell us another brand of piano which we didn't care for anyway.

Is the deal we are considering at least average or better than what we might get if we haggled a bit more?

Where EXACTLY is the darn piano made anyway and who makes it?

I'm already tired of this whole process as it is starting to resemble buying a used car!

Please help...

Top
#39929 - 11/03/04 03:05 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
Hannibal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Sydney, Australia - Cologne, G...
To my knowledge and I have been at the factory in Seifhennersdorf, all C.Bechsteins, Bechsteins and Zimmermanns are manufactured at this plant.
The factory in Berlin is just used for demonstration purposes.
The Academy or Bechstein line simply uses more cost-effective production techniques, but is still assembled in Seifhennersdorf (not Berlin).

Regarding the cooperation of Samick and Bechstein I have read in an official statement that Samick is supposed to represent Bechstein in Asia and USA and Bechstein in turn is supposed to improve and train Samick staff. Implement CNC techniques etc..

Unfortunately I can't give you any information about prices, since I reside in Germany.

RG TL

P.S. If you're still in doubt about the origin of Bechstein pianos, simply write a mail to them and ask. They are very helpful.
_________________________
Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.

Top
#39930 - 11/03/04 03:19 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
otherside Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 145
I think the discussion about where it is built is a side track.
You are the payer, but you can use your ears can't you.

Top
#39931 - 11/03/04 05:14 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6174
OrganGrinder -- the link was to show you (1) there are differences between Bechstein and C.Bechstein; and (2) the price will be different depending on whether the fallboard says, literally, "Bechstein" or "C.Bechstein."

Assuming you can afford either, I'd suggest that you buy the one you like better regardless of place of manufacture or name on the fallboard (just go by your own ears and fingers). But if you happen to like the "Bechstein" more, there is no reason for you to pay the "C.Bechstein" price for a "Bechstein."

Getting pricing information is a huge pain in the *** for all piano shoppers. Bechstein/C.Bechstein are also very rare, which makes their pricing data even harder to come by for the buying public. I feel your pain, but I have not the power to help you. Sorry.

If you get definitive answer on whether that piano is a "Bechstein" or "C.Bechstein," then may be some one else who has the information can better help you. It seems from your last post that it's a "Bechstein" rather than a "C.Bechstein." So that cleared up the situation somewhat.

Usually, these pieces of information are most useful to help you get relavant pricing data:
  • Exact brand/model of piano
  • Finish or case styling of piano (e.g., "black")
  • Approximate location of piano (e.g., "Los Angeles")

Another thought: Look up Larry Fine's Piano Book's latest Supplement -- there may be an entry in there for "Bechstein 190."

Good luck.
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

Top
#39932 - 11/03/04 05:56 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
JPM Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 1010
Loc: NM, GE & Wash. DC
OG,

You ought to go to the source. Email Bechstein's customer service department. Give them the make, model, serial number, and finish of the piano, and ask them to tell you where the piano was made and year of manufacture. They'll give you a straight answer.

If they tell you it was built in Seifhennersdorf, you've got the real deal, a German built piano. (A year or two ago, the company said all their new grands were being built in Seifhennersdorf. All or some of the grands (I forget which) were then being sent to Berlin for final factory preparation before shipping to distributors/dealers. I don't know if that is still the case.)

Last Spring, there was a debate on PW about the new Bechstein Academy model (190 cm) and where they were being built. Some folks said Samick was building them in Korea. Others said they were made in Germany. I don't remember if we ever figured out the correct answer. Larry or someone else knowledgeable about Bechsteins might know.

In Germany the MSRP for a Bechstein Academy, polished ebony, is about 25K Euro (32K USD). They market this piano as their "affordable alternative" model.

The Bechstein Model M/P (192 cm), polished ebony, has a MSRP of 44.5K Euro (57.1K USD) in Germany. This is a no compromise C. Bechstein piano. There's a new one in Germany for sale on Ebay for about 40K Euro right now.

Bechstein is a top tier piano maker. Their pianos are high quality and expensive, like the other top tier manufacturers.

It's hard to tell whether you're getting a good deal or not because I don't know what your Baldwin is worth. You will have to hire a tech that does piano appraisals to figure that out.

JP

PS: Hannibal & I must have cross-posted. His production info is more current than mine.
_________________________
"Piano music should only be written for the Bechstein."
-- Claude Debussy

Top
#39933 - 11/03/04 06:17 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
Steve Ramirez Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 1096
Loc: El Cajon, California
 Quote:
Originally posted by OrganGrinder:
Is this a fair price? Their website is not too helpful at all. [/b]
Here's a link to a list of new piano prices. It may be out of date but it looks about right for Bechsteins. Most pianos sell at discounts of anywhere from 10% to 30% depending on a whole variety of factors. Asian pianos are discounted quite a bit and Steinways very little. Expensive German pianos may sometimes be sold at a substantial discount if they have been in a dealer's inventory for a long time.

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/listprices/bechstein.htm

Bechstein is a maker of no-excuses pianos. Premium German pianos are all of very high quality and choosing among them is a matter of personal preference for sound and touch.

Top
#39934 - 11/03/04 08:04 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
OrganGrinder Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles
Thanks to all for your input. Of course I want to get a fair deal. I'm in sales myself so I don't need to squeeze the last dime out of somebody. I don't want to get riped-off either. If I am paying for a "German, hand-built" piano, that's what I expect to get. It doesn't sound all that different to me than the Baldwin we're getting rid of anyway. I tinker an old Lowrey organ so what do I know? I rarely touch the piano.

It's way too fishy that I can't get a definitive answer as to the origin of the "Bechstein" so I am now trying to convince my wife to consider some other brand that's not so mysterious as to its origin. If the "Bechstein" we are looking at is made in Korea but "engineered in Germany" as I now suspect it might be, than I understand the clandestine nature of the company's marketing. There's no way I'm gonna pay 32k for an Asian piano. I don't care what it looks like or sounds like. Would I pay the same price for a Mercedes made in China as one from Germany? Not a chance, no matter how great it drove!

Top
#39935 - 11/03/04 08:19 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
TP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 42
Loc: Midwest
Organ Grinder, I have serviced these pianos. If you have any questions you can pm me. TP
_________________________
Find it, quantify it, fix it.

Top
#39936 - 11/03/04 09:34 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6174
(off topic)
 Quote:
OrganGrinder wrote: "There's no way I'm gonna pay 32k for an Asian piano. I don't care what it looks like or sounds like. Would I pay the same price for a Mercedes made in China as one from Germany? Not a chance, no matter how great it drove!"
On the one hand, I feel sorry that you feel that way. On the other hand, it's precisely because some folks refuse to pay good prices for some truly excellent products purely because they're made in Asia (hence keeping the price depressed) that some other folks get to buy the same products far cheaper than comparable products made elsewhere. ;\)
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

Top
#39937 - 11/04/04 02:22 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
JPM Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 1010
Loc: NM, GE & Wash. DC
OG wrote:

 Quote:
It's way too fishy that I can't get a definitive answer as to the origin of the "Bechstein" so ....
Did you email Bechstein the piano's info? What did they tell you? Bechstein has always given me straight answers to my questions.

JP
_________________________
"Piano music should only be written for the Bechstein."
-- Claude Debussy

Top
#39938 - 11/04/04 02:30 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
SoftwareResearch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 283
Loc: Germany
OG,

you just need to know the model number. If it is M/P 192, then it is their "professional / all german" series. If it is the new A189, then it is still all assembled in Germany, but some parts are manufactured in Asia.

By the way, if you buy a Mercedes, I am pretty sure that many Mercedes parts are manufactured outside Germany as well \:D

Klaus

Top
#39939 - 11/04/04 08:11 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
TomFL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 267
Loc: SW Florida
OGrinder - Have you thought about investing some of that $32K into refurbishing your current Baldwin? and not buying another piano?
If you bought the Baldwin new, you've already suffered the depreciation, and wouldn't have to suffer it again with a new piano purchase.

Just a thought...

Top
#39940 - 11/04/04 09:46 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
otherside Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 145
As for if you got a good price, no idea.
You are after all dealing with at least three moving objects: the price of the piano you buy, the price of the piano you trade in, the service you will get.
This way it would not be impossible you got a negative price for your Baldwin ;\)

Top
#39941 - 11/04/04 10:09 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
OrganGrinder Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles
I did hear today from the "Samick Music" company who is listed as the US distributor for "Bechstein" pianos in the US on the "C.Bechstein" website. I have yet to get any reply form the "C.Bechstein" company who I e-mailed only two days ago. Below is the reply I received from the Samick company:

_______________________________________________
"Hello,
This piano is made in two different factories. Some case parts are made in their Bohemian factory,( Chezk republic) and all other parts, final finish and assembly are done in Germany.
Robert Sutton
SMC corp.
National Service Manager"
_______________________________________________

It now seems that I have a definitive answer about the piano and it is obviously NOT made in Korea nor are there any Asian parts in the piano. I feel like I have solved a great mystery, where's Heraldo?

"Some case parts are made in their Bohemian factory" doesn't really scare me off. Obviously the salesperson who told me that the piano was made in Korea was lying in order to sell his own brand. A sale he has now lost!

Thanks to all for your input. If I hear form the "C.Bechstein" company I will report. As soon as we make a decision, I will also post some pics as I see that seems to be customary here.

Thanks again to all for your input.

Top
#39942 - 11/05/04 09:12 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
OrganGrinder Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles
My wife went back to play the piano again today and she said that the dealer showed her where the piano says "made in Berlin" on the metal under the music rack. That might have saved us some headache. Why this wasn't pointed out to us in the beginning when we questioned the pianos origin I don't know but then I also can't imagine why a competitor would claim that the piano is made in Korea when it says "Made in Germany" right on the piano!

She has still not decided however, there's a used Steinway she is now considering and at least I know where it comes from!

Top
#39943 - 11/05/04 01:30 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
thomas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 40
Loc: Sausalito,California
After trying just about every make of piano available in the Bay Area I found few that competed for my attention like the C. Bechstein M-180 model. If you come across one that is well prepped I think you'll put it in your group of top picks.( Just my thoughts on the matter)

Top
#39944 - 11/29/08 02:57 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
sammyla Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Los Angeles
I just order a new Bechstein A-190 with Rosewood color, the total price including tax, delivery, tuning, a match bench and warranty is $46k. Is this price fair? OrganGrinder, do you mind to tell me which piano store you visited? I am in LA too.

Top
#39945 - 11/29/08 04:10 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
If the piano is new, it's either a very good price or an excellent one. I don't see rosewood in the source I'm using. If rosewood is in the Special Woods category, then it's an excellent price. Any chance that it's a reddish mahogany? If it is, it's a very good price.

Top
#39946 - 11/29/08 01:58 PM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
crispin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 80
Loc: france
Actually the MRP for a Bechstein A190 is 35 keuros in France... maybe this can be reduced to 25 keuros with some hard bargaining - I wouldn't know.
Recently I bought a Bechstein upright (Academy A124 that does not appear to be available in the US - but that is another story). I sent some email to Bechstein - and eventually they do answer (sometimes with a month's delay...) so be patient.
Personally I am very happy that we did buy this Bechstein ... I really find it a piano of exceptional quality, touch and tone.

Two threads come to mind - both having C.Bechstein grand pianos in their tests... I realise that you are going for a non-C Bechstein .. but at least these come from an excellent stable.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/24120.html#000000

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/24012.html#000000


As others have already said - choosing a piano at this level is a very personal thing - so you have to wait for your wife to find that particular piano that speaks to her.

Keep us informed - we are all suckers for piano buying stories - take your time.
BTW after some studying eventually I convinced myself that the Bechstein pianos are assembled in Germany...

Top
#39947 - 12/01/08 12:47 AM Re: Bechstein Info. Please
sammyla Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Los Angeles
The piano A-190 is on the way from NY to LA now, how can I know the piano is new? Is there any year or date on the piano?

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
85 registered (Abby Pianoman, Alux, Al LaPorte, 36251, 28 invisible), 1146 Guests and 9 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75959 Members
42 Forums
157084 Topics
2306816 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Timing of the trill Invention no 1
by DreamOfSleeping
Today at 03:55 AM
Consolation 3 played by Paul Barton question
by briandang
Today at 01:37 AM
Toccata Boogie -- piano solo
by Axtremus
Today at 01:11 AM
Upright Essex Piano - Is It Worth it?
by Lasa
Yesterday at 11:55 PM
I thought some of you pianists might find this interesting
by Mark Cerisano, RPT
Yesterday at 11:01 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission