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We recently looked at a new Bechstein Grand Piano(black), 6'4" and was quoted a price of about 32K out the door plus our old (30 yrs?) Baldwin grand. This is wayyyyy over my budget but my wife fell in lust. Is this a fair price? Their website is not too helpful at all. Is this piano as great as the salesman claims it is? What other comparable German/American or ??? pianos might be a better value (less money!). I'm not the player, just the payer!

What model was it?

I don't recall the model name. I didn't know that there was more than one in that size. All I know is that it is:

A "Bechstein", black, made in Germany, 6'4" (190cm), new, and really expensive!

Sorry, I'll call tomorrow and find out the model.

It would also be important to say the age and model of the Baldwin you're trading in.

Chris

I didn't try the grand one, but the upright one impressed me so much! (of course, it's very expensive !:>)

Perhaps interesting to know is that Bechstein recently changed its models, so there are old and new ones.
Also there is a new ( more economical ) line which is called "Bechstein" ( not C. Bechstein ), which seems to resurrect old models of say 100 years ago.

See this post: C.Bechstein vs. Bechstein , and the follow-up responses if you can.

Axtremus,

Thanks for the link but I'm even more confused now. The string you directed me to poses more questions and there is no resolution that I can find. Now I'm wondering where the piano we are looking at is actually "made". Sounds like the technical chief from C.Bechstein is being careful to only say that the Bechstein is "engineered" by C. Bechstein.

To answer some previous questions in order to clarify my quiry:

We are considering a "Bechstein 190", polished black, which the dealer says is "made in Berlin by C. Bechstein".

We are trading-in our Baldwin "M" which we are told was made in 1968 and is in good condition except the bench is not the original matching bench.

The total price including tax, delivery, tuning, bench and warranty is $31,700 plus our Baldwin.

We were told by another dealer today that the "Bechstein" piano is "made in Korea", not Germany. Of course they are trying to sell us another brand of piano which we didn't care for anyway.

Is the deal we are considering at least average or better than what we might get if we haggled a bit more?

Where EXACTLY is the darn piano made anyway and who makes it?

I'm already tired of this whole process as it is starting to resemble buying a used car!

Please help...

To my knowledge and I have been at the factory in Seifhennersdorf, all C.Bechsteins, Bechsteins and Zimmermanns are manufactured at this plant.
The factory in Berlin is just used for demonstration purposes.
The Academy or Bechstein line simply uses more cost-effective production techniques, but is still assembled in Seifhennersdorf (not Berlin).

Regarding the cooperation of Samick and Bechstein I have read in an official statement that Samick is supposed to represent Bechstein in Asia and USA and Bechstein in turn is supposed to improve and train Samick staff. Implement CNC techniques etc..

Unfortunately I can't give you any information about prices, since I reside in Germany.

RG TL

P.S. If you're still in doubt about the origin of Bechstein pianos, simply write a mail to them and ask. They are very helpful.

I think the discussion about where it is built is a side track.
You are the payer, but you can use your ears can't you.

OrganGrinder -- the link was to show you (1) there are differences between Bechstein and C.Bechstein; and (2) the price will be different depending on whether the fallboard says, literally, "Bechstein" or "C.Bechstein."

Assuming you can afford either, I'd suggest that you buy the one you like better regardless of place of manufacture or name on the fallboard (just go by your own ears and fingers). But if you happen to like the "Bechstein" more, there is no reason for you to pay the "C.Bechstein" price for a "Bechstein."

Getting pricing information is a huge pain in the *** for all piano shoppers. Bechstein/C.Bechstein are also very rare, which makes their pricing data even harder to come by for the buying public. I feel your pain, but I have not the power to help you. Sorry.

If you get definitive answer on whether that piano is a "Bechstein" or "C.Bechstein," then may be some one else who has the information can better help you. It seems from your last post that it's a "Bechstein" rather than a "C.Bechstein." So that cleared up the situation somewhat.

Usually, these pieces of information are most useful to help you get relavant pricing data:

• Exact brand/model of piano
• Finish or case styling of piano (e.g., "black")
• Approximate location of piano (e.g., "Los Angeles")

Another thought: Look up Larry Fine's Piano Book's latest Supplement -- there may be an entry in there for "Bechstein 190."

Good luck.

OG,

You ought to go to the source. Email Bechstein's customer service department. Give them the make, model, serial number, and finish of the piano, and ask them to tell you where the piano was made and year of manufacture. They'll give you a straight answer.

If they tell you it was built in Seifhennersdorf, you've got the real deal, a German built piano. (A year or two ago, the company said all their new grands were being built in Seifhennersdorf. All or some of the grands (I forget which) were then being sent to Berlin for final factory preparation before shipping to distributors/dealers. I don't know if that is still the case.)

Last Spring, there was a debate on PW about the new Bechstein Academy model (190 cm) and where they were being built. Some folks said Samick was building them in Korea. Others said they were made in Germany. I don't remember if we ever figured out the correct answer. Larry or someone else knowledgeable about Bechsteins might know.

In Germany the MSRP for a Bechstein Academy, polished ebony, is about 25K Euro (32K USD). They market this piano as their "affordable alternative" model.

The Bechstein Model M/P (192 cm), polished ebony, has a MSRP of 44.5K Euro (57.1K USD) in Germany. This is a no compromise C. Bechstein piano. There's a new one in Germany for sale on Ebay for about 40K Euro right now.

Bechstein is a top tier piano maker. Their pianos are high quality and expensive, like the other top tier manufacturers.

It's hard to tell whether you're getting a good deal or not because I don't know what your Baldwin is worth. You will have to hire a tech that does piano appraisals to figure that out.

JP

PS: Hannibal & I must have cross-posted. His production info is more current than mine.

Here's a link to a list of new piano prices. It may be out of date but it looks about right for Bechsteins. Most pianos sell at discounts of anywhere from 10% to 30% depending on a whole variety of factors. Asian pianos are discounted quite a bit and Steinways very little. Expensive German pianos may sometimes be sold at a substantial discount if they have been in a dealer's inventory for a long time.

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/listprices/bechstein.htm

Bechstein is a maker of no-excuses pianos. Premium German pianos are all of very high quality and choosing among them is a matter of personal preference for sound and touch.

Thanks to all for your input. Of course I want to get a fair deal. I'm in sales myself so I don't need to squeeze the last dime out of somebody. I don't want to get riped-off either. If I am paying for a "German, hand-built" piano, that's what I expect to get. It doesn't sound all that different to me than the Baldwin we're getting rid of anyway. I tinker an old Lowrey organ so what do I know? I rarely touch the piano.

It's way too fishy that I can't get a definitive answer as to the origin of the "Bechstein" so I am now trying to convince my wife to consider some other brand that's not so mysterious as to its origin. If the "Bechstein" we are looking at is made in Korea but "engineered in Germany" as I now suspect it might be, than I understand the clandestine nature of the company's marketing. There's no way I'm gonna pay 32k for an Asian piano. I don't care what it looks like or sounds like. Would I pay the same price for a Mercedes made in China as one from Germany? Not a chance, no matter how great it drove!

Organ Grinder, I have serviced these pianos. If you have any questions you can pm me. TP

(off topic)
On the one hand, I feel sorry that you feel that way. On the other hand, it's precisely because some folks refuse to pay good prices for some truly excellent products purely because they're made in Asia (hence keeping the price depressed) that some other folks get to buy the same products far cheaper than comparable products made elsewhere.

OG wrote:

Did you email Bechstein the piano's info? What did they tell you? Bechstein has always given me straight answers to my questions.

JP

OG,

you just need to know the model number. If it is M/P 192, then it is their "professional / all german" series. If it is the new A189, then it is still all assembled in Germany, but some parts are manufactured in Asia.

By the way, if you buy a Mercedes, I am pretty sure that many Mercedes parts are manufactured outside Germany as well

Klaus

OGrinder - Have you thought about investing some of that $32K into refurbishing your current Baldwin? and not buying another piano?
If you bought the Baldwin new, you've already suffered the depreciation, and wouldn't have to suffer it again with a new piano purchase.

Just a thought...

As for if you got a good price, no idea.
You are after all dealing with at least three moving objects: the price of the piano you buy, the price of the piano you trade in, the service you will get.
This way it would not be impossible you got a negative price for your Baldwin