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Topic Options
#400224 - 11/12/07 02:00 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Reaper978 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 1326
I'd like to study composition.

Because of my clinical depression which resists treatment, I fear I will not be able to make it through college with any degree, let alone something as demanding as music. I also suffer from wrist pain.

I suppose you can tout "others have it worse" and "happiness is a choice" all you want, but that doesn't correct the chemical problems in my brain.

I'd like to have private lessons with a composer. Grading and academia is, for the most part, obsolete and standardized hodgepodge from the 20th century.

-Colin

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#400225 - 11/12/07 03:20 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
schmickus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 85
Loc: Bonn, Germany
Antonius,

you are right. But Volodos never practised until he decided to become a pianist at age 15.

I had ONE golf lesson in my life, 5 years ago, and never played again. Am I today a golf player with 5 years of experience? ;\)
_________________________
physicist, hobby pianist, lyrical tenor.
As a student I used to broker pianos

Mason&Hamlin AA, 1908
Blüthner 190, 6ft3, 1903
J.L. Duysen 195, 6ft6, 1897, (under construction)

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#400226 - 11/12/07 03:27 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Varcon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1931
Loc: Mount Vernon, Georgia 30445
According to an article in an Etude Magazine in 1923 Bauer studied a year with Paderewski. "In 1892, however, he went to Paris and studied the piano under Paderewski for a year, . . . ." This is from a short biographical entry in Wikipedia.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Bauer%2c+Harold

http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/people/A0806512.html

He, Bauer, was one of my teacher's teacher, along with Olga Samaroff and Percy Grainger.

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#400227 - 11/12/07 03:40 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Bauer played orchestral reductions for Paderewski. Here are his own words:
 Quote:
I learned a great deal by being in the presence of this great master; when he had finished this rehearsing with me it was my custom to ask for his help in dealing with certain problems of the piano which I naturally looked upon as a secondary instrument.
from Gerig
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#400228 - 11/12/07 04:37 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
 Quote:
Originally posted by schmickus:
Antonius,

you are right. But Volodos never practised until he decided to become a pianist at age 15.

I had ONE golf lesson in my life, 5 years ago, and never played again. Am I today a golf player with 5 years of experience? ;\) [/b]
No you're not. Here's a problem of equal difficulty for you to solve:

I only reported what I found in Wikipedia, and the article didn't say anything about how much Volodos had played or practiced before the age of 15, only that "he had played the piano from the age of eight". The question is, did I say Volodos never practiced until age 15 or that he had only one lesson until age 15?

By the way, could you reveal your source regarding your statement about Volodos never practicing until 15? Or perhaps you could let us know how good Volodos was at age 15? Information such as, which pieces he was able to play decently at that age, would be considered sufficient (when coupled with appropriate sources). We wouldn't have to go into the difference between 'playing' and 'practicing', as Wikipedia's "he had played the piano from the age of eight", seems to imply that, whether or not Volodos had practiced during those years, he sure had played the piano during those years (8-15).

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#400229 - 11/12/07 04:47 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheMadMan86:
So what are we considering studying seriously? [/b]
'Seriously' seems like an euphemism for 'formally'. It would of course be better to use the latter to avoid misunderstandings and general vagueness. But guess which the marketing people prefer? People like rags-to-riches stories, in all their variations.

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#400230 - 11/12/07 05:17 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
schmickus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 85
Loc: Bonn, Germany
Antonius,

here we go:

At age 16, Volodos studied Rach 3. Source: Piano News, Interview, 2/2007

And:
Arcadi Volodos Interview

with Süddeutsche Zeitung -- March 20, 1998, excerpt:
"Süddeutsche Zeitung: Most pianists have been on the stage for 10 years. Why was it not until you were 16 that you first started to play the piano seriously if you wanted to become a professional pianist?

Arcadi Volodos: I never did want to become a professional pianist. I never even thought about becoming a musician. Of course I tried to take after my parents who are both singers, and concentrated therefore on singing. I also had a serious go at conducting, until my teacher suggested that I have another try at the piano.

SZ: Can technique still be learnt at the age of 16, or is it inherited?

Volodos: It is not too late at 16. In the end it depends on how you deal with the music. I have never practised scales and I always got bad marks for technique. ..."
Full text to be found at

http://www.sonyclassical.com/news/volodos_int.htm

In fact in St. Petersburg Volodos attended a school that focused on choir music. Of course every child would receive formal training in music as a whole.
_________________________
physicist, hobby pianist, lyrical tenor.
As a student I used to broker pianos

Mason&Hamlin AA, 1908
Blüthner 190, 6ft3, 1903
J.L. Duysen 195, 6ft6, 1897, (under construction)

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#400231 - 11/12/07 05:34 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
"For centuries we have not seen such virtuoso playing by any piano wizards."

The good people at Sony Classical sure know how to hype... A really nice source you got there, Mick. But it still only says Volodos didn't start seriously until 15, when he decided to "give another (serious) try" (the piano instead of conducting, this time). So that's when he started to work his butt off to increase his playing technique, with a teacher I suppose, becoming a formal student of the piano. So he started "seriously", as the ad--ah, I mean interview, said. It didn't say Volodos never practiced before 15. It conveniently didn't say much anything about anything much.

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#400232 - 11/12/07 05:45 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Yeah, it's all a conspiracy, guys. What's so hard to understand?
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#400233 - 11/12/07 06:20 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
I just realized there are more than one person here who has trouble understanding what he reads, so here is some further clarification:

 Quote:
Originally posted by schmickus:
Antonius,

here we go:

At age 16, Volodos studied Rach 3. Source: Piano News, Interview, 2/2007[/b]
At age 16, Rach 3. OK. And that also was more or less when he started "seriously" (a fact given below). Sounds like he was pretty good already when he "started seriously", even assuming some months' variance between starting to study seriously and starting to study Rach 3.

 Quote:
Originally posted by schmickus:
And:
Arcadi Volodos Interview

with Süddeutsche Zeitung -- March 20, 1998, excerpt:
"Süddeutsche Zeitung: Most pianists have been on the stage for 10 years. Why was it not until you were 16 that you first started to play the piano seriously if you wanted to become a professional pianist?

Arcadi Volodos: I never did want to become a professional pianist. I never even thought about becoming a musician. Of course I tried to take after my parents who are both singers, and concentrated therefore on singing. I also had a serious go at conducting, until my teacher suggested that I have another try at the piano.[/b]
OK. He started "seriously" at 16, because his teacher suggested that Volodos give a serious try at the piano. Volodos says "another try", because the conducting was the first (serious) try. If you want to argue that he actually meant "another try at the piano", please explain the lack of referent. Even assuming that "another try at the piano" was what he tried so vaguely to express, the statement would tell little about how much he had played the piano before the age of 16.

 Quote:
Originally posted by schmickus:
SZ: Can technique still be learnt at the age of 16, or is it inherited?

Volodos: It is not too late at 16. In the end it depends on how you deal with the music. I have never practised scales and I always got bad marks for technique. ..."[/b]
OK. The penultimate step with your reading guide takes place in the darkness of the forest, use a hooded cloak and don't get hurt: "Can technique still be learned? Yes, yes it can." Question and answer, neither of which suggests that there is no technical foundation to start with.

 Quote:
Originally posted by schmickus:
In fact in St. Petersburg Volodos attended a school that focused on choir music. Of course every child would receive formal training in music as a whole. [/b]
OK. So Volodos, in your argument, was formally trained in the art of piano, since he was formally trained in the art of music in general? Logic, I'm afraid, doesn't work like that, as the famous apple said when it tried to fall towards the sky. Or are you just saying you didn't notice we were talking about the formal or serious study of piano, not just formal study of music in general?

To conclude, you have failed miserably to provide me with what I asked for. You don't want to try again? That's a shame...

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#400234 - 11/12/07 06:31 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Not so much "difficulty reading", I didn't actually read the thread, I just couldn't resist the urge to to see another emotional and insult-filled post from you as I knew would appear based on the predictable pattern.

Which is of course a dispruption, so I apologize to the moderators, it won't happen again.

Though I didn't know people could get so defensive about describing the life of some pianist they don't know personally.

I wonder though, taking into account all the empty condescension in your posts, why do you even bother arguing with people if you consider them to be less than you? Why not just disregard their opinions as inconsequential, as I do to yours?
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#400235 - 11/12/07 06:34 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
I seem to attract frustrated teenagers...

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#400236 - 11/12/07 06:41 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
 Quote:
I seem to attract frustrated teenagers[/b]...
Really, my age? Come now, surely you have something more substantial to pick at? (Your name-calling of course, reminds us that maturity and age do not always go hand in hand). \:\)

What's next, my hair color? Nationality?
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#400237 - 11/12/07 06:44 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
Oh, it's just that you're not the first one "Theowne". I have some more substantial things to say about you, but I'm not going to insult you publicly any more than I already have. If you ever come to Finland, let me know.

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#400238 - 11/12/07 06:49 PM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
No, feel free to say anything you want, I could use the amusement. Or write me an message (I suppose now that the "teenager" card has been played, you'll need to find some other childish insult), I would love to hear all of these things you have learned about how insufficient I am through my internet messages. Just get out of the delusion that everyone considers your grand superiority to not be completely inconsequential, however comforting the idea may be. If I do come to Finland, I'd rather not waste precious limited time out of my life on trivial things. Perhaps that idea is something you should think about, and it may lead to some new ideas on who is mature and who isn't. I realize you are too proud to admit in this thread but I know you will reflect on this idea elsewhere. (PS It's probably better that I not respond again so feel free to have the last response. English is my second language, perhaps you can resort to making fun of that next )
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#400239 - 11/13/07 12:47 AM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
boys, boys! Jeez!
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#400240 - 11/13/07 12:57 AM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
The moderators are sleeping. Let's re-paint the walls and break the windows! (as long as we can)

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#400241 - 11/13/07 01:04 AM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868


Yes, and Antonius, we better start soon. Late starters are never successful, you know. ;\)

_________________________
Sam

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#400242 - 11/13/07 01:18 AM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
LOL

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#400243 - 11/13/07 10:10 AM Re: Successful pianists who were late starters
schmickus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 85
Loc: Bonn, Germany
Antonius,

don't become childish:

quote:
Originally posted by schmickus:
"In fact in St. Petersburg Volodos attended a school that focused on choir music. Of course every child would receive formal training in music as a whole."
Originally posted by Antonius Hamus:
"OK. So Volodos, in your argument, was formally trained in the art of piano, since he was formally trained in the art of music in general? Logic, I'm afraid, doesn't work like that, as the famous apple said when it tried to fall towards the sky. Or are you just saying you didn't notice we were talking about the formal or serious study of piano, not just formal study of music in general?

To conclude, you have failed miserably to provide me with what I asked for. You don't want to try again? That's a shame..."

Wrong conclusion, antonius. Please re-read both our postings. Find your flaw in logic. And practise the art of "How to behave like an adult".

Best, schmickus
_________________________
physicist, hobby pianist, lyrical tenor.
As a student I used to broker pianos

Mason&Hamlin AA, 1908
Blüthner 190, 6ft3, 1903
J.L. Duysen 195, 6ft6, 1897, (under construction)

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