Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#408918 - 03/13/08 09:08 PM WTC I - D Major Prelude - Stay in black key area?
JerryS88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 638
Loc: Ringwood, NJ
I have a question about Measure 7 of the Prelude in D Major from Book I of the WTC - image posted below. I have circled two notes where the thumb plays on black notes and I am curious to know what others do and recommend in this particular passages (and by inference similar passages).

The question is, after playing the first circled note (F#) with the thumb, do you stay in the black key area, or do you immediately pull out and subsequently move back in when you get to the second circled note (C#)? Staying in means playing the following A natural with the 4th finger deep between the Ab and Bb. At slow speed I can do this without a problem and it feels and sounds really good. At faster speed, though, it begins to feel a little risky. I am wondering if I should be practicing toward being able to stay in comfortably at tempo. The thing is, I don't like the way it feels to move suddenly in and out when playing at tempo, plus it requires a lot of effort to not make it sound abrupt. What would you/do you do here? I'm wondering if I'm the only one who finds this measure tricky.

Thanks for any comments.

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#408919 - 03/13/08 09:59 PM Re: WTC I - D Major Prelude - Stay in black key area?
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 726
Loc: South Carolina, USA
This is undoubtedly a tricky passage. But I would not want to try to play it at tempo while keeping my hand "in the black key area."

I've been playing for almost 50 years, and I had some terrific teachers. Frankly I don't recall any of them having ever said anything to me about where my hands were in the North-South direction, as opposed to the East-West.

My bottom line is that if this is something you absolutely need to think about, you have to move your hand "South" to the white keys and then, if you need to move your hand to reach the C#, then back North. My guess is that if you just relax your wrist, the passage will eventually flow naturally.

Top
#408920 - 03/13/08 10:27 PM Re: WTC I - D Major Prelude - Stay in black key area?
JerryS88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 638
Loc: Ringwood, NJ
Thanks for your comments, wdot. I just played through the passage a couple of times again. I realize now that what happens to me is that if I pull out immediately after playing the F# I find I fall into a pattern of "jerking" my hand in and out thereafter whenever the thumb has to play on a black note again. With a little experimenting just now I realize that it's really only this first one that requires a super-fast shift. I'm going to experiment with trying to not let that one fast shift lead me into a pattern of abrupt shifts, but rather try to make subsequent shifts more gradual and less extreme. That may be a solution. Keeping a relaxed wrist is a good suggestion - thank you.

Top
#408921 - 03/14/08 02:00 AM Re: WTC I - D Major Prelude - Stay in black key area?
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
How about this fingering?

Bach did not use what we would call conventional fingering today. Like his contemporaries, he had a different concept of thumb under/overs. I find 2 over 1 from the second F# in bar two much easier than the your 1 under to 2 to the second A in bar one.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#408922 - 03/14/08 08:50 AM Re: WTC I - D Major Prelude - Stay in black key area?
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 726
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Good suggestions, kbk. I definitely agree with your change in the first measure. I'll have to try out the second measure fingerings on the piano. They feel pretty solid on my desk, though.

Top
#408923 - 03/14/08 08:56 AM Re: WTC I - D Major Prelude - Stay in black key area?
JerryS88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 638
Loc: Ringwood, NJ
Interesting fingering, KK. I agree with wdot - I like your fingering measure 6. Your fingering in measure 7 requires that you stay in the black keys at the F#, since you have the thumb playing it again three notes later. Right now it doesn't feel easier than the original fingering, but that may be a matter of practice.

Top
#408924 - 03/14/08 02:00 PM Re: WTC I - D Major Prelude - Stay in black key area?
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Jerry and I have read this interesting article.
http://www.normandypianocourses.com/PianoSepOct2004pp34-35.pdf
It's very germane to this thread as it's about fingering. Near the end he says one famous French teacher didn't charge for the lesson but for the fingering! I plan to go to the writer's workshop here in London in April.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
> Robin Spielberg Playing in Maine! <
-------------------
75,000 Members and Growing!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
146 registered (accordeur, ajames, AndresD, Almaviva, 40 invisible), 1843 Guests and 22 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75479 Members
42 Forums
156060 Topics
2291603 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Remembering what to play
by kipale
36 minutes 33 seconds ago
Time to change teacher?
by AndresD
Today at 09:34 AM
Adjusting Sound During Restringing
by BillJZ
Today at 09:05 AM
My fingers know what my brain has forgotten
by PatrickBl
Yesterday at 08:30 PM
Fully-Rebuilt Pianos Versus New Pianos
by Paul678
Yesterday at 08:12 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission