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So Lang Lang played the Chopin Polonaise on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno. I had a very mixed reaction to it. First I should say, I am not a fan of Lang Lang, only reason I was watching was there was nothing else on tv and I was winding down after a long day. He did not do half bad, he was no where near as annoying to watch as he was. But even though he was playing fast I did not find it exciting. I remember seeing it played by Rubinstein at a very advanced age on youtube and finding it much better. Same with others like Horowitz. Sorry just my two cents on the matter.

Chopin composed more than one polonaise, you know (16 if memory serves). So which one did Lang do?

Perhaps you should try to enjoy it when someone plays, instead of fault-finding. No matter who it is!

I apologize, Op. 53, the Heroique.

BDB, I take a little offense at what you say. I do sit down and enjoy music. But was not fault finding on Lang Lang. I am just not a fan. I was not aware that I had to be a fan.
I was explaining my reasons for why I was watching it. Since I am not a fan it would make sense to explain why I was watching to begin with. The piece is played by a lot of people. Some your going to like some your not and in this case be middle of the road about.

Have you seen the clip where Sultanov plays on the Letterman show? I hate Letterman now :t: .

jdhampton, Sorry if I come off as rude, but here is how your post read to me:

Lang Lang played on Jay Leno tonight. He was good, but I didn't like it, even it was fast. Rubenstein's better. So is Horowitz.

That was pretty much the summation of it, no? You ever gone to a recital/concert with someone, who afterwards says they didn't like it, but gives no real interesting reason other than "Horowitz/Rubenstein" was better? Doesn't it make you roll your eyes a bit?

Of course everyone's entitled to their own tastes. Lang isn't my favorite performer, either. I guess some of us are just confused as to what your purpose was in starting this thread-you didn't really say anything except you like Horowitz and Rubenstein better.

I just blundered into it on YouTube. Absolutely putrid. Letterman comes off as such a smart-arse...

What is the appeal of late night tv? During those hours I'm either in bed, out on the town or posting here.

I think that some of the appeal of these shows comes from the fact that the hosts interview celebrities, most of whom are in entertainment. Nothing, to me, could be less interesting than hearing some Hollywood starlet give her opinions on the world financial crisis or the best place to buy shoes, but some people just lap it up, don't they?

Late night (American) TV of the variety we are talking about "died" when Johnny Carson left the airwaves. There was a gentleman with humour, sparkle, wit, elegance and a keen sense of timing and style. Nothing has been the same since - but what do I really know, since I have only very occasionally seen Letterman or Leno or ....

Didn't Bill Clinton, when he was President, play sax on one of those shows? Now, there's statesmanship, for you!

Regards,

Most of the time I wonder, why am I not practicing?? When I am posting.
I had a experience like the one your talking about with my former roommate. I took him to go see Andre Watts and after the concert said, "he was good but not Lang Lang." My roommate who was also a piano performance major came from China and thought everything Lang Lang did was gold. So there was alot of eye rolling. There was also a few times of around 5 am, he would turn on his stereo nearly as loud as it could go to Lang Lang playing the Rach 2 or rap music.

My purpose was to see if anyone else saw it. Horowitz or Rubinstein are performances I know most people have seen. Which is why I would compare to them.

So why were you watching it, then? Change the channel. That would be like me moaning about a song I don't care for playing on the radio, but refusing to change the channel.

Huh???

Takes all kinds, I guess.

Come on. He said "THE Polonaise". Anybody here think of a different polonaise besides the Heroic when they hear someone say "THE Polonaise"? Not even the Military can be considered in that reference. :p You know, like Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody or Scriabin's Etude.

Anyway, where did you guys find this clip on YouTube? I looked and looked and don't see it anywhere...

It puts single people to sleep, and relieves the tension for couples who could be doing something else but aren't.

Steven

That was answered in the OP:

...only reason I was watching was there was nothing else on tv and I was winding down after a long day

But he had something else to do. He should have been learning the difference between "your" and "you're"!

Of course. That was obvious. I guess I should rephrase, then.

What was the point of watching something you *know* you dislike 100% just to moan & whine about it later publically on msg boards.

Wait : why don't I listen to country & polka albums and then rant about how I hate them? What a fantastic idea. LOL!

Well, my mama always said "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything."

But then again, my Grandmother always said "If you can't say something nice about someone, come sit by me..."

So, I'll just say that I hope to the Dear that I never hear Mr. Lang play Gershwin, and leave it along...

I could be, but then there is nothing for you to nit pick at.

Well I see everyone else doing it. I figured I might get on that and enjoy ranting. Why are your reading it?

The elderly Paderewski's performance of the A flat polonaise in the film "Moonlight Sonata" is very measured indeed. How true that sheer speed doesn't necessarily generate excitement!
I've only seen Lang Lang in performance on TV once (apart from the Liberace-like spectacular at the Olympic games opening ceremony) when he played Tchaikovsky 1 and, although, I enjoyed his playing I found all the face twitching, ecstatic glances heavenward etc. very off-putting. Perhaps pianists like Lang Lang should take a leaf out of the books of Paderewski and Rachmaninov who practised in front of mirrors in order to try to eliminate all extraneous movements when playing.
Or is it something about Oriental pianists that they feel they have to illustrate the music with their own reactions to it? I avoid Mitsuko Uchida because of all the histrionics at the keyboard she employs..the latest brochure from the Royal Festival Hall includes a photographic portrait of her with her head clasped in her hands which seems to have been modelled on Edvard Munch's "The Scream."

I wonder if it's overcompensation due to the popular perception (in the U.S., anyway) that so many young Asian students (in the U.S., Oriental is used for rugs but not P.C. for people) have technical mastery but are robotic and unmusical.

I'm not really being serious; I think it's a stereotype and overgeneralization in any case, and that overemoting in particular is an idiosyncrasy. Some performers are best enjoyed with one's eyes closed.

Steven

There is an interview with Lang Lang on youtube where he says that in China, learning technique is not a problem for pianists (hopefully they dont treat kid pianists like they treat their teenage athletes), but that he feels ypu need to go to the US or Europe if you want to improve other aspects of your playing. This may be a stereotype, or maybe not ...

In my experience, the pianists who move the most are almost always the least expressive. This has lead me to my theory that they cannot express themselves properly through the piano, so to compensate they adopt some physical show. As a result, I can't stand to both watch or listen to such pianists - but watching is worse. Mitsuko U. -- no, no, that's too obvious -- let's just say Ms. Uchida is one of those "bad smell" pianists. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQpsL_kh6pE

There are of course exceptions, Glenn Gould being the most prominent, who are actually expressive in sound.

I think it is not a good idea or accurate to generalize in terms of cultural or racial background -- one of the best and most expressive pianists I have ever known personally is from China.

Quoting Wood-demon: There may be something to this. It seems to me that the East does not have the same stage traditions as the West, particularly the notion of "naturalism" on stage. "Method" acting, or any acting that appeared to be naturalistically based, did not appear to be the norm in the parts of the East that I visited in the 70s. Rather, acting was more demonstrative, or "illustrative," to use Wood-demon's word, than would be acceptable in the West. It appeared to be a different stage tradition.

I also recall hearing Henry Miller on television years ago tell of his frustration in directing Death of a Salesman in Beijing. He complained that he couldn't get an actor to pick up a pen without demonstrating to the audience that it was a pen, by holding it in a highly stylized manner, and then making little circles in the air with a twist of the wrist, to illustrate writing.

I realize that acting and piano performance are different endeavors, but it would seem that one might carry over to the other, and perhaps that explains something of what is going on with Lang Lang. He may not be as Westernized as his publicity would indicate.

Tomasino

I can't resist ......

one should not end a sentence in a preposition.

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Of course, there is always Churchill's response ....

"That is the kind of nonsense up with which I am fed!"

tomasino, your observations are very interesting.

But as relates to piano performance, wouldn't Lang's YouTube interview (mentioned by izaldu) suggest the opposite? I didn't see the interview, but the implication was that he learned only technique in China and expression (and expressions! ) in the West.

Steven

Maybe. Maybe I'm all wet. It's just arm chair speculation on my part based on my own experience. I wasn't responding to isaldu.

Tomasino

Oh gawd, Iain, that's absolutely painful to watch. If playing the piano hurts that badly, why bother?

I need to get back to the "Happy Pieces" thread.

Yeah, but the other side of the coin is Wood-demon's very apposite description of Lang's "face twitching [and] ecstatic glances heavenward."

If playing the piano is so pleasurable, I don't need to see that either!

Steven

Yeah, why not rent the real thing? :p

It would be more bang for the buck.

Steven

Maybe I'm alone, but to me that's a very beautiful Mozart, "simple/naive", lyrical, ...There may be exaggerated facial expressions but I find nothing exaggerated in the interpretation itself. I can just close my eyes and listen.

I also don't think her expressions are for show effect. If one is fully absorbed in the music, you don't consciously realize your outer appearance anymore. I personally prefer that people don't invest time/energy in getting their outer appearance "appropriate". The danger of trying to do so is that in the end these attempts (and the constant wondering "how do I look like?") will build a barrier between the interpret and the music.

Oh everyone is a little guilty of it. Look at pianists such as Fazil Say who make Lang Lang Look reserved. Andsnes as well does a lot of that stuff.

I have learned a few lessons here today..
1. dont mention Lang Lang.......ever
2. The difference between your and you're because we all know that know one makes typing errors.
3. Do not end sentences in prepositions. I might actually remember this one this time. Please do not take any offense. I laugh a lot at how bad my stuff is.
4. Pianists have an unspoken desire to be english teachers. This one goes back to my piano teacher who at one time refused to teach me until I corrected something I wrote.
5. Why am I not practicing? I believe there is need to rewrite what a pianist needs to survive. We need food, water, shelter, and practice time.

On a final note from me. Every pianist has their strengths and weaknesses. Lang Lang has technique and is a good showman. We consider it over done, but those are his strengths. When I was living in Chicago there was two recordings I rather liked by him: his rach 2 and yellow river. As for Uchida, she is a good pianist as well and pays a lot of attention to phrasing. I find this to also be hear weakness as A lot of the stuff I have heard from her, Beethoven concertos, Schubert and Mozart Sonatas. That she focuses to much on individual phrases and looses sight of the whole. My teacher was told me if I ever go see her in concert to bring a blindfold. I digress though, because I mean to say she still plays beautifully.

So in conclusion(I feel like I'm writing a paper now) I will try to look more at the good then bad, and if nothing else is on, go to bed 20 minutes earlier.

Actually, the correct quote is:
"Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right." -- Henry Ford

Edit History: Sorry, I came back and made it absolutely correct after some checking.

Thank you! A friend of mine used to say it to me a lot but she could never remember who said it.

I think there is a big difference between Uchida and Lang Lang when it comes to making faces etc.

I have seen Uchida at least 5 times and never thought once about her facial expressions probably because I didn't think there was anything fake going on. I have never read a review of a concert by Uchida where her facial expressions were mentioned although I suppose it is possible they have been.

I think Uchida almost always ends her recitals with a big, serious and long work. Three recitals that come to mind are ones where she ended with Beethoven's Op.111, Schubert's big D major Sonata, and Schumann's Davidsbundler. All of these works end quietly. She has a completely different musical aesthetic than LL.

At this point there is little doubt that LL's faces etc. are calculated showmanship. If you read a review I quoted about LL's latest book in a thread some time ago, LL's motivations are pretty clear. That is the reason his histrionics are almost always mentioned in reviews of his concerts and some people dislike him quite intensely.

I completely agree. She is on my list of "avoidables" albeit LL tops it. But speaking of "The Scream" , did they ever find that painting?

[My teacher was told me if I ever go see her in concert to bring a blindfold.]

This is a problem with many of them. Their shenanigans detract from the music making, which is a shame, because they do make good music.
And even when you can't see them, once you know what they are doing, you still think about it while you are listening.

Stravinsky spoke of an exuberant conductor (obviously Bernstein) who he felt might have even concealed little water-jets in his tail-coat to fake the streams of perspiration which ran down his face!
Personally I think that a calm posture at the piano is (or should be) one of the many controls that a pianist has to master. Vladimir Ashkenazy in an interview said that he very much regretted the facial expressions that he noticed when watching film of his own playing. Perhaps the face is the hardest thing to control, but the rest of the body shouldn't be so much of a problem.

i love how kempff plays, his presence at the keyboard ... so quiet, his eyes are more expressive than lang langs whole body

How about the massive ugly gaps in between sections and the lack of variations in the repeats?

The first "gap" is wonderful (before the 1st repeat): up to then, the music is just flowing forward in a simple way, and then the slightly extended silence is really like a deep breath and the start of the repeat is almost like a revelation. I agree, however, that the "gaps" get slightly predictable afterwards. Regarding the lack of variations in the repeats, ok you're right. But in this case (not in general) I'd rather have a lack of variation than a repeat full of mannerisms just to make something different. The single most important thing is to maintain that feeling of a very simple flowing motion (though I'm sure Pogorelich would find a way to make it sound great even with constant tempo changes... ). Of course, we're well in the realm of subjective taste here... :p

P.S. One more thing regarding the gaps - I'd guess this may be specific to that encore performance. I'll check her studio recording later.