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#421478 - 02/18/05 04:51 AM ninety-seven keys
^AusRotten^. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 33
Loc: Stick in the Woods, WV
I was recently reading of a Bosendorfer Model 290, containing 97 keys (9 extra sub-bass notes).

"It is the only concert grand in the world to have nine sub-bass notes, down to bottom C, giving it a full eight octave compass keyboard. These extra notes enable some compositions to be accurately performed, which were originally scored with lower notes, by composers such as Bartók, Debussy, Ravel and Busoni. Special construction features have a very positive influence on the overtones produced when the piano is played, and helps to create the maximum range of both power and volume, and allows the smallest subtle variations in sound to be heard, across the whole range of the piano."

The reason I ask this forum and not the piano forum, is that it mentions works by various composers were scored with notes below a piano range. I was very curious about these works.

Any pieces come to mind?
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#421479 - 02/18/05 05:07 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2016
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
I think I know Ravel's piano music pretty well, and I can't think of anything scored below bottom A. (of course I could be wrong...)

The only pseudo-exception is Jeux d'eau, which begs for the g# below bottom a (measure 49). The editions I have, though, all write it in as the A. I suspect Ravel wrote in the A, since he probably composed it on a Pleyel or an Erard. Also, I think Bosendorfer put in the extra notes at the suggestion of Busoni around 1900. Ravel published Jeux d'eau in 1901.
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#421480 - 02/18/05 05:38 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
sandman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 605
Loc: toronto
Im pretty sure some of Ravel's larger works should technically use them even if its written without them, and i know Messiaen uses them, his Petite esquisses d'oiseaux was written specifically for the big bosendorfer..incidentally its the best piano piano ive ever played, my favorite, better than all the steinways ive ever played and better than the fazioli concert grands ive played
Stuart and Sons also makes a piano with extra keys, i believe it extends the keyboard down to f in the bass, and up to f in the trebel, never seen one in real life but they sure look beautiful on the website.

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#421481 - 02/18/05 06:40 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
Kreisler Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 12483
Loc: Iowa City, IA
There's a spot in Ravel's Miroirs that begs for a G# too.
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#421482 - 02/18/05 08:02 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
Scarbo would ask for the G, and the G#, as well as in Jeux d'eau and Une barque sur l'ocean. So yes, you're wrong.

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#421483 - 02/18/05 08:24 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2016
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
Really? He actually wrote in something lower than bottom A in Scarbo, Jeux d'eau and Une barque sur l'ocean? Which measures?
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#421484 - 02/18/05 08:31 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
newpianoplayer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/12/01
Posts: 362
Loc: CANADA
Oscar Peterson has a custom made grand piano with an additional bass octave. He brings his piano to all of his performances.
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#421485 - 02/18/05 08:38 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
He didn't write it, but he clearly and certainly intended it.

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#421486 - 02/18/05 08:53 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2016
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
ahhh. thanks for the clarification.
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#421487 - 02/18/05 10:35 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
Steve Marcus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 33
Loc: Chicago area
Busoni's transcription of the Bach Violin Chaconne in d minor begs for the low G toward the end of the piece.
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#421488 - 02/18/05 10:53 AM Re: ninety-seven keys
sandman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 605
Loc: toronto
oscar peterson plays the bosendorfer...so does tori amos

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#421489 - 02/18/05 01:15 PM Re: ninety-seven keys
fnork Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 752
Loc: Helsinki, finland
A question about the Ravel pieces; since the pianos with extra bass notes came after or around the same time that he wrote his music, why didn't he make changes in the notation? Just wondering.

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#421490 - 02/18/05 01:21 PM Re: ninety-seven keys
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
They didn't come around the same time.

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#421491 - 02/18/05 04:08 PM Re: ninety-seven keys
Scriabinist Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 9
Loc: The Himalayas
Also Ravel's G major concerto ends in A-G, not G-G, as it "should" be.

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#421492 - 02/18/05 05:19 PM Re: ninety-seven keys
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
-_- That's an obvious example of the limitations of his pianos.

If there were extra notes in the bottom, he would have scored a low G.

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