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#426871 - 04/16/08 06:17 AM VAR.XVIII
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Has anyone got this off pat ?... VAR.XVIII of the Rachmaninoff Rapsodie on a Theme of Paganini Opus 43? (Db Major)

The familiar theme holds ones attention to be able to master the first 12 measures ... but then the sight-reading traffic gets a bit intense with lots of clef changes and overlapping chords.

Any comment?

Here are the first 9 measures.

web page

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#426872 - 04/16/08 03:40 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17822
Loc: Victoria, BC
What's the question?

It's not a particularly difficult variation; playing through it a few times should get it into the fingers of most proficient pianists.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#426873 - 04/17/08 02:26 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".

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#426874 - 04/17/08 03:05 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
It is an incredibly difficult variation. Probably the hardest measures that Rachmaninov ever wrote... and you know the story, even Rachmaninov himself couldn't play them. In fact, that variation is the only reason why I'm too scared to play the whole Rhapsody. I'm having enough trouble lately with Chopin Op. 10 No. 1... a piece of cake in comparison!
_________________________
Sam

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#426875 - 04/17/08 06:46 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19218
Loc: New York City
PJ's joking aside, I think Rachmaninov actually did have problems playing this variation even though it is probably the easiest part of the piece. Someone(can't remember who) offered him a Creme de menth before the concert and he played the piece perfectly. Rachmaninov proceded to write "Creme de menth" on the score next to this variation and always had this drink backstage before performing this work.

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#426876 - 04/17/08 08:00 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5283
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation". [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#426877 - 04/17/08 08:59 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17745
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Even I had no trouble at all playing the lower (labeled II) set of staffs in the excerpt posted by btb. ;\)
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#426878 - 04/17/08 11:22 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
dannylux Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1817
Loc: Connecticut
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica K.:
Even I had no trouble at all playing the lower (labeled II) set of staffs in the excerpt posted by btb. ;\) [/b]
Love to hear your recording, Monica.

Perhaps for Recital 10?


Mel
_________________________
My Recordings

"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. What you will receive in return varies. But it really has no connection with what you give. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn

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#426879 - 04/17/08 11:44 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
It's not one of the difficult ones. I always thought Variation 15 was more of a finger twister.

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#426880 - 04/17/08 11:46 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
It's not a difficult variations at all, just chords that fit under the hands nicely.

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#426881 - 04/17/08 12:05 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
Shelby Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 56
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri

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#426882 - 04/17/08 12:34 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shelby Guy:
As we first heard from George Santayana :

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." [/b]
Well said...
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#426883 - 04/17/08 12:36 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
phonehome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 921
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
PJ's joking aside, I think Rachmaninov actually did have problems playing this variation even though it is probably the easiest part of the piece. Someone(can't remember who) offered him a Creme de menth before the concert and he played the piece perfectly. Rachmaninov proceded to write "Creme de menth" on the score next to this variation and always had this drink backstage before performing this work. [/b]
The creme de menth was supposedly for the jumps at the beginning of the final variation. I took a shot of creme de menth with a friend of mine in the orchestra before I played it this past year, and by God I hit every one of those jumps. I'm never performing this piece again without taking a couple shots first \:D

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#426884 - 04/17/08 01:02 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
It is an incredibly difficult variation. Probably the hardest measures that Rachmaninov ever wrote... and you know the story, even Rachmaninov himself couldn't play them. In fact, that variation is the only reason why I'm too scared to play the whole Rhapsody. I'm having enough trouble lately with Chopin Op. 10 No. 1... a piece of cake in comparison! [/b]
pianojerome, I must disagree. Everyone knows that the hardest passage ever written by Rachmaninov is the third variation of the Paganini Rhapsody! I mean, to be able to play such a frantic solo piano part, so full of wide leaps and treacherous chords and nimble runs -- surely only the most able of virtuosi could tackle it. And as everyone knows, even if one may be able to play the notes, the variation will never have enough aching or enough longing or enough swooning. In other words, the few (if any) who can play the notes of the solo piano part of this variation cannot possibly play them musically. After all, that is one of the immutable laws of the universe, is it not?

Here is the two-piano score of the entire work. Flip to the third variation to see the horror, the horror!

Surely the third variation of the Paganini Rhapsody deserves its own thread! Surely the devil himself resides in the solo piano part of this very variation, wearing a tiger suit, daring the foolish to hunt him down. And surely it is well-nigh impossible to sight-read the solo piano part of this variation! A well known virtuoso who regularly eats the Busoni Concerto and the Alkan Etudes for breakfast is terrified by variation three, and has admitted to not being able to sight-read it. What hope then do we mere mortals have?

Coming soon to btbTV: Our Lord and Saviour enlightens us on the pianistic difficulties of "Heart and Soul."
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#426885 - 04/17/08 01:33 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
Orlando Gibbons Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 848
Loc: CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Has anyone got this off pat ?... VAR.XVIII of the Rachmaninoff Rapsodie on a Theme of Paganini Opus 43? (Db Major)

The familiar theme holds ones attention to be able to master the first 12 measures ... but then the sight-reading traffic gets a bit intense with lots of clef changes and overlapping chords.

Any comment?

Here are the first 9 measures.

web page [/b]
I wanted to post in this thread earlier, but when I looked at the score linked above I had a series of minor strokes for even attempting to read the notes. I lost all motor function when there was a clef change. I'm just happy to be alive. Thanks for nothing, Rachmaninoff.
_________________________
"See?! The Cliffs of Insanity!"

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#426886 - 04/17/08 01:39 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
PianistOne111 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Utah
...Huh?

(assuming you guys are joking)
.
.
.
.
.
.
(I mean come on...)
_________________________
One111

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#426887 - 04/17/08 03:42 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5283
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shelby Guy:
As we first heard from George Santayana :

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." [/b]
Good point, but let's see where this goes first.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#426888 - 04/17/08 05:37 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Thanks for your good sense PJ ... the high-flown flatulance of some have me reaching for Winston Churchill’s politically correct use of the term "terminological inexactitude".

Glad to hear that Rachmaninoff himself needed a stiff medicinal bracer before tackling the minefield of VAR.XVIII.

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#426889 - 04/17/08 06:20 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19218
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Glad to hear that Rachmaninoff himself needed a stiff medicinal bracer before tackling the minefield of VAR.XVIII. [/b]
But if you read a few posts after mine you'll see I had the wrong variation.

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#426890 - 04/17/08 08:05 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Thanks for your good sense PJ ... [/b]
My pleasure. Now where's that creme de menthe...
_________________________
Sam

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#426891 - 04/17/08 08:20 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
phonehome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 921
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Thanks for your good sense PJ ... [/b]
My pleasure. Now where's that creme de menthe... [/b]
In my belly

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#426892 - 04/17/08 08:35 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by phonehome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Thanks for your good sense PJ ... [/b]
My pleasure. Now where's that creme de menthe... [/b]
In my belly [/b]
oh
_________________________
Sam

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#426893 - 04/17/08 08:42 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
Loki Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 1035
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation". [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
_________________________
Houston, Texas

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#426894 - 04/17/08 08:46 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation". [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
_________________________
Sam

Top
#426895 - 04/17/08 08:51 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5897
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:
quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation". [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#426896 - 04/17/08 09:43 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5283
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:
quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation". [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation.

It's a particularly difficult variation.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#426897 - 04/17/08 09:57 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
computerpro3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 367
Loc: Connecticut/Cincinnati
BTB I am just curious why when you make threads like this, purporting something to be impossible, you don't choose works by Alkan and the like instead of mainstream, "not particularly difficult" works?

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#426898 - 04/17/08 10:43 PM Re: VAR.XVIII
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:
quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation". [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation. [/b]
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation.

It's a particularly difficult variation.

Mr. Brendan, on April 17, 2008 at 4:00 AM, you said that "it's not a particularly difficult variation." Now, you are saying that "it's a particularly difficult variation."

Do you know what this makes you, Mr. Brendan?

A flip-flopper.


Welcome to the club. Weekly membership fee is $42 and a creme de menthe, payable to pianojerome.
_________________________
Sam

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#426899 - 04/18/08 02:24 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
phonehome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 921
We don't need no darn flip-flopper as no moderator on these here boards.

BTW I really really REALLY like the girl from the Mercury ads.

.....who's this Rachmaninoff fella?

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#426900 - 04/18/08 02:44 AM Re: VAR.XVIII
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8815
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:
quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi BruceD,
Your nonchallance is disarming ... it will be interesting to hear how many others regard Rach’s Rapsodie VAR.XVIII (post m12)
as "not a particularly difficult variation".
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation.
It's not a particularly difficult variation.

I tried -honest!- to stay off this thread, but having just read through that variation, where's the O magnum mysterium?

Or is this another example of btb's "high-flown flatulence"? Or perhaps High Church flatulence...
_________________________
Jason

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