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#428321 - 08/09/05 03:25 PM WTC editions
stevekk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 72
Loc: São Paulo - BRAZIL
What are the best editions of Bach´s WTC?

stevekk

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#428322 - 08/09/05 03:37 PM Re: WTC editions
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
I like the Henle edition. Very clean and easy to read. Kalmus is good too, but the binding is tight so the books fall apart easily.

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#428323 - 08/09/05 03:57 PM Re: WTC editions
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
I go to kinkos and have em spiral bind all my music books. It's only a couple of dollars.
You should try it john.

stevekk,

Generally, you won't have alot of differnces in bach editions like you'll encounter in chopin editions for instance. Though some people have tinkered with em. Some of the wtc scores on the sheet music archive are shot to hell. avoid those. Look for one that are copied from the
Bach-Gesellschaft manuscripts. Most Bach wtc editions out there are. The dover is, and that's what I own. It has served me well.
_________________________
JOHN

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#428324 - 08/09/05 04:01 PM Re: WTC editions
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
I would stay away from the Schirmer edition. My edition of that I find to be very lax in notation (there are note differences between it and better editions). Also I don't agree with a lot of Czerny's metronome markings.

I would recommend the Henle, myself...
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#428325 - 08/09/05 04:10 PM Re: WTC editions
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
I like my Dover edition. It doesn't have any fingerings or dynamics (as I've seen), but they fit each prelude and each fugue (most of them) onto two pages so that you don't have to worry about turning pages.
_________________________
Sam

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#428326 - 08/09/05 06:03 PM Re: WTC editions
Palindrome Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3914
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by 8ude:
I would stay away from the Schirmer edition. My edition of that I find to be very lax in notation (there are note differences between it and better editions). Also I don't agree with a lot of Czerny's metronome markings.

I would recommend the Henle, myself... [/b]
Czerny took notes of Beethoven's performance of WTC, and that formed the basis of his edition. The text is woefully inaccurate, and although Beethoven was a great pianist, his aesthetic (including both his senses of humor and of proportion) is highly unlikely to be concordant with JSB's.
_________________________
There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians

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#428327 - 08/09/05 08:57 PM Re: WTC editions
xyz2004slc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 353
Im surprised nobody said Baerenreiter. I have it and it has beautiful binding and minimal notation. For some pieces, there are two copies, one that was copied from Bach's hand, and the other, with ornaments notated on his student, Gerber's, sheet. I highly recommend it.

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#428328 - 08/09/05 08:59 PM Re: WTC editions
xyz2004slc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 353
P.S. All Schirmer edtions are unbelievably overedited. Im surprised people are so 'lax when talking about it.

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#428329 - 08/09/05 09:07 PM Re: WTC editions
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
i have Dover edition and it's just fine to me.

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#428330 - 08/09/05 09:41 PM Re: WTC editions
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by bach enthusiast:
I go to kinkos and have em spiral bind all my music books. It's only a couple of dollars.
You should try it john.
[/b]
I have had manuscripts GBC'd before. It's a great idea especially with individual sheets like the computer print outs from CD-Sheet Music and Sheet Music Archive. I print them out on a duplex laser printer so I don't waste paper, and then go to a SirSpeedy and they do that for me. The cost is the same as Kinkos only a couple of dollars for the book.

The Bach Preludes and Fuges are okay in the CD Sheet Music collection. The only problem is the edition they used squeezed nearly complete Preludes on a single page so the type is really small - almost like 6 or 8 point, which is okay for reading from a chair, but way too small from a music desk.


John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#428331 - 08/09/05 09:42 PM Re: WTC editions
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by xyz2004slc:
Im surprised nobody said Baerenreiter. I have it and it has beautiful binding and minimal notation. For some pieces, there are two copies, one that was copied from Bach's hand, and the other, with ornaments notated on his student, Gerber's, sheet. I highly recommend it. [/b]
I never thought of them. I have the Partitas in this edition. They really are nicely edited.

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#428332 - 08/09/05 09:58 PM Re: WTC editions
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
 Quote:
Originally posted by xyz2004slc:
Im surprised nobody said Baerenreiter. I have it and it has beautiful binding and minimal notation. For some pieces, there are two copies, one that was copied from Bach's hand, and the other, with ornaments notated on his student, Gerber's, sheet. I highly recommend it. [/b]
Yeah, these are great books. Only problem is they aren't very available here in the states, but you can order em on the web. The reason I didn't mention them is cause I've never looked through the well tempered clavier edition. Like all thier other editions though, I'm sure that it's good. We didn't intend to startle you xyz2004slc.
_________________________
JOHN

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#428333 - 08/09/05 11:03 PM Re: WTC editions
xyz2004slc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 353
You didnt find them in New York???? I live in Charlotte, North Carolina and all my Bach books are Baerenreiter! I get them from Brodt Music in Charlotte...

lol BE...I wasnt that startled. \:D

edit: At first, he recommened the Henle and Peters, but for some reason, they were unavailable, so I looked through a few other editions: Wiener, Alfred, Baerenreiter, et al. Since he said to get the Henle and Peters because they arent so edited, I thought that the Baerenreiter made the cut. He probably thought they didnt exist in the US--now he treats the book like God. \:D

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#428334 - 08/10/05 12:26 AM Re: WTC editions
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
Yeah, I go to frank music co. on W.54th and they sell em. I just said they're hard to find cause I've lived all over the states and never seen them anywhere other than here and K.C..Maybe they're more abundant than I thought.

I just realized that the original poster is in Brazil. Ha!

So stevekk, If you can find baerenreiter they are very nice editions of all music not just bach.

The Henle is good too as 8tude suggested

And the dover is just fine as well.

edit:At first, he asks about fingering on a simple bach sinfonia - then he gives opinions on the best bach editions-then once someone acknowledges the possible validity of his recommendation, he mocks them. \:D
_________________________
JOHN

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#428335 - 08/10/05 12:32 AM Re: WTC editions
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
 Quote:
Originally posted by xyz2004slc:
P.S. All Schirmer edtions are unbelievably overedited. [/b]
This is very true as 8ude also brought to your attention. the schirmer sucks. I think bach would wet himself if he were to see it.
_________________________
JOHN

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#428336 - 08/10/05 02:35 AM Re: WTC editions
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21250
Loc: Oakland
It really depends on what you want. There are several urtext editions, which are all probably comparable. There probably isn't much reason other than personal taste to choose between them. These include Henle, Bärenreiter, Peters-Kroll, Peters-Kreutz, and some others.

If you want more information about the pieces, there are some good edited versions. I have a soft spot for Bischoff's edition of Bach, originally published by Steingräber, but reprinted by several publishers. I don't care much for the Tovey edition, who uses unusual notation, and as several people have said, you should avoid Czerny editions and those people who used it as a source.

I haven't seen Anthony Newman's edition from Schirmer's, but I would not be surprised if that is edited to good standards. It just isn't true that all Schirmer editions are bad.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#428337 - 08/10/05 07:49 AM Re: WTC editions
Mark Davidson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 116
Loc: NC
Czerny add an extra bar to the 1st Prelude. But an Ave Maria of Schubert uses the Czerny version as an accompaniment. I found out the hard way, real time. (Oh sure, I know that - we don't need to practice it...).

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#428338 - 08/10/05 10:14 AM Re: WTC editions
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Davidson:
Czerny add an extra bar to the 1st Prelude. But an Ave Maria of Schubert uses the Czerny version as an accompaniment. I found out the hard way, real time. (Oh sure, I know that - we don't need to practice it...). [/b]
I assume you meant Gounod instead of Schubert?

And in general, I find Schirmers to be average, but I am just so unimpressed with their edition of the WTC. Just off the top of my head, I can think of errors in the C, cm, C#, F#, ebm, Bb preludes and in the bm fugue. That I can think of that many errors just off the top of my head would lead me to never recommend this edition.

I only use it to glance/sightread through to see what p&f I might want to do next - then I go track down a real edition to actually learn it.
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

Top
#428339 - 08/10/05 10:59 AM Re: WTC editions
neciebuggs Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Chula Vista
I vote for Henle. I have 1 and 2 in henle, 1 in schirmers... ack, and 2 in some other edition (need a microscope to read it). From now on... I am pretty much a Henle snob! I love the way the books stay open. No glare on the pages. No over editting (urtext format).
_________________________
Denise

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#428340 - 08/10/05 12:53 PM Re: WTC editions
BBBworship Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 225
Loc: collierville, tennessee
my alfred edition rocks

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#428341 - 08/10/05 01:48 PM Re: WTC editions
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by 8ude:

And in general, I find Schirmers to be average, but I am just so unimpressed with their edition of the WTC. Just off the top of my head, I can think of errors in the C, cm, C#, F#, ebm, Bb preludes and in the bm fugue. That I can think of that many errors just off the top of my head would lead me to never recommend this edition.

I only use it to glance/sightread through to see what p&f I might want to do next - then I go track down a real edition to actually learn it. [/b]
I do the same thing. There are also errors in the A-flat one in Book 1. He inverses the line in the prelude, and leaves out a few mordents.

It's very amusing how the people back then took it upon themselves to 'fix' the music because it didn't suit their times.

Overall I don't have much of the Schirmer editions anymore. I've substituted, as finances permitted, or I could get the books as gifts, for better editions such as the Wiener Urtext, Henle, Baerenrieter, Universal and Dover.

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#428342 - 08/10/05 08:11 PM Re: WTC editions
Mark Davidson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 116
Loc: NC
 Quote:
Originally posted by 8ude:
I assume you meant Gounod instead of Schubert?
Yeah...I was playing the Bach part...from Henle edition...without the extra measure...in front of a lot of people...

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