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the concept that an artistic expression can be realized mathematically in any artistic medium

Xenakis



Sounds funny to me.

Anybody has an explanation?

It means you write in fragments. :p

Basically, anything "art" can be explained mathematically...unless the fragment is taken out of context.

Total BS in my opinion (his quote not yours derulux ) .. how does emotion get translated into mathematics??

lol, thats dumb, so by that rule Einstein, that dude from 'Beautiful Mind', Russel Bertrand are complete musical geniuses...I doubt Beethoven was much good in arithmatic! I mean, to understand how to write his music and divide the notes to fit the measures is logical thinking, but the feeling of Music as art is not mathematical, its emotional. He wasnt thinking of the timing when he wrote the music he did, he just knew how to split it up.

Harmonic frequencies fall under mathematics, too. Math goes far beyond metronomic divisions where music is concerned.


Oh, and bassio... I agree with it to a certain extent. Music can certainly very easily be explained mathematically, but where music catches up to emotion, that is precisely where math fails...or at least, common-sensical math. I'm sure, eventually, everything can be explained mathematically the same as everything can be explained using any other language. You just have to understand the language first. (Since I'm NOT "fluent" in math/number-speak, but can only "get by", this is where I have to stop. I cannot speak any deeper on the language of mathematics because I'm not well-versed in its intricacies to call myself a native-speaker.)

Yes but you are getting off topic, "artistic expression is mathematical" is what the original statement was. Frequencies are experienced not only by musical instruments, everything has a natural frequency and all that stuff, but thats Physics, not art.

Actually, Einstein was an accomplished violinist in his later years, and often performed accompanied by physicist Max Planck on the piano.
:p
Point taken, however. I just felt like being a stickler and pointing that out.

He played Saint-Saens' "The Swan" with Patrick Moore on piano. :p

No, I am "dead-on-balls-accurate" (to borrow from "My Cousin Vinny"). Music is nothing more than audible resonant frequencies.

Other forms of art, particularly visual arts (paintings, words of any kind, et al), may not subject themselves to resonant frequencies, but if you want to discuss the application of the visible spectrum, then the frequency of light (and the wavelength of various colors in the spectrum) become a part of the conversation.

You just have to think deeper.

Mathmathics is a very sucessful descriptive system. It should not however be mistaken for anything other than that. Just because it may be able to 'describe' art does not mean that it can 'produce' it. Calm down everyone, this isn't as threatening as it sounds.

(BTW, I have the same opinion about mathmatics applied in the context of science.. but that is a different forum

i am imagine you could explain Bach mathematically- he's very logical

'artistic expression' is probably different from 'emotional expression'

imho

Xenakis was not just talking about music. He had a strong background in architecture and mathematics, which influenced his ideas on music and art.
If you have a chance, read some of hiw writings like "Formalized Music: Thought and Mathematics in Composition." It's pretty tough sledding, though.

yes I am sure they will someday create calculators and put into the days greatest musical geniuses to calculate the force how hard each key is pressed by them, and therefore everyone will be able to implement this device into themselves and with enough practice perform the exact same way as the geniuses...Pardon me, but performances differ for everyone, no two people play the same way, that is proof that math is not involved in sensitivity to music, it is feeling, you are telling me feelings are mathematical, tell me in what way please!!!

C = 440 Hz

Peter

passion = ?

Ok so we are mostly made of water and the moon causes these waves to create emotions within us. Now mathematically speaking....you hit just the right note at the right time and you mix all those waves inside your head, Whoa, you'll be moved by the experience. Ya thats it.....mathematical geniuses they were.

Peter

Considering your reaction to physics concepts, I can't imagine what your reaction would be to chemistry, biology, or God forbid, genetics....

There was a move called "Pi" out about ten years ago. It was a long while ago, and I can't remember as precisely as I would like, but the premise was something like this:

A Jewish mathemetician was attempting to express the idea of God mathematically. And all the talmudic scholars were discussing the dangers, because God is the unknowable, the unspeakable. So if you say his name with the precision of mathematics, you're in deep weeds.

It was something like that.

Anyway . . .

Tomasino

1998

Summaries here: IMDB (Internet Movie Database)

Hey Derulux, thanks for the comment! I wasn't aware this forum was around to moch one another.