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#439787 - 09/09/01 11:32 PM Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
PianoMuse Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Philly, PA
Alright. My piano teacher just sprung on me that i am playing Tchaikovsky's piano concerto 1. What is this like? i have yet to hear it, though he is giving me a CD of him playing it with an orchestra. Is it really hard? What other famous peices is it like? Any tips? From what some people are telling me, its pretty hard, but they haven't played it. Help!
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"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music." ~Rachmaninoff

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#439788 - 09/10/01 12:08 AM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
Josh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 155
Loc: Lexington, KY
I'm not 100% positive on this, but I believe this is the piece that Van Cliburn won an international contest with. Someone please correct me if I'm off base here. I have listened to it, and all I can say is, it's powerful, and WAY out of my league.

Good luck,
Josh
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Josh

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#439789 - 09/10/01 07:35 AM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17666
Loc: Victoria, BC
It was indeed the Tchaikovsky first that rocketed Van Cliburn to fame when he won the International Tchaikovsky Competition back in the mid '50s. (Not at home, so I can't check the exact date. His recording of it is still available on RCA) This concerto is one of the standard "warhorses" of the romantic repertoire and, truth be told, is quite difficult, though effective when well played.

Enjoy studying it.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#439790 - 09/10/01 07:51 AM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
netizen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/01
Posts: 1926
Loc: New York
It's bark is worse than it's bite. It's a big romantic virtuoso concerto that is one of the standard warhorses (lots and lots of recordings of it -- often played poorly -- a few exciting performances; was the basis for a popular song in the 1940's; most folks will easly recognize the opening bar of the first movement --in this regard it's sort of surprising that you're a piano major, but have never heard this concerto). I think I learned it when I was around 15 or 16 (sometime after learning the Grieg --so as to what it sounds like you can compare it to that and the Liszt no 1 etc, etc ---infact it often get coupled on recordings with the Greig). You'll need lots of stamina to get through the octaves, leaps, and so forth. But's manageable and, imho, falls rather nicely into the hands. I think the last movement is the more difficult --and more exciting--of the three movements.

Recordings: Vlad Horowitz, Martha Agerich, Santiago Rodriguez, Artur Rubinstein, Emil Gilels, Van Cliburn. All have made top drawer recordings. There are newer ones, but it's not one of the works I listen to that much (any longer). So perhaps others here can recommend some good newer recordings.

It's great fun to play, so enjoy learning!

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: netizen ]
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-- Theodore Roosevelt

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#439791 - 09/10/01 08:40 AM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Van Cliburn was catapulted into world fame by winner the First Tchaikovsky Competition in 1958. The Russians were so confident of their pianistic 'strangle-hold' on the world they pre-determined Lev Flasenko to win the competition. Along came the 6'4" lanky Texan who floored the Russians with both Tchaikovsky 1 and Rachmaninov 3. Flasenko had to live with a Silver medal. I was just listening last night once again Cliburn's Rach 3 recorded back in 1958 shortly after his grand slam win. His mercurial reading remains, IMHO, to be matchless.

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: AndrewG ]

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#439792 - 09/10/01 09:38 AM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
As Jolly would tell you, the lanky Texan was born in Shreveport, LA. where he made his first public performance at age 4. He moved to Kilgore, Texas at age 6 and became a lifelong Texan regardless of where his travels take him. I have an album of his called "My Favorite Rachmaninoff" which includes Sonata #2, OP 36; Etude-Tableau, and seven preludes. The title may just be a record company marketing ploy.
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Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#439793 - 09/10/01 10:23 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
ZeldaHanson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 276
Loc: Cape Cod, MA, USA
Has anyone heard of my friend Emile Lambrev?

He's a pianist who won first place in the Tchaikovsky competition in 1978.

He has his own classical cd. His address is: www.emileandemilio.com
_________________________
Glenn Gould in regards to music:

The problem begins when one forgets the artificiality of it all, when one neglects to pay homage to those designations that to our minds-to our reflect senses, perhaps-make of music an analyzable commodity. The trouble begins when we start to become so impressed by the strategies of ours systematized thought that we forget that it does relate to an obverse, that it is hewn from negation, that it is but a very small security against the void of negation which surrounds it.

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#439794 - 09/10/01 10:43 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
netizen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/01
Posts: 1926
Loc: New York
No, I've not heard of him... If I'm not grossly mistaken Mikhail Pletnev won the Tschaikovsky competition in 1978. \:\(

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: netizen ]
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-- Theodore Roosevelt

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#439795 - 09/11/01 03:28 AM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
magnezium Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 722
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
He's a pianist who won first place in the Tchaikovsky competition in 1978.


more like:

 Quote:
In 1978, at the age of eighteen, Emile was the youngest participant in the “Tchaikovsky Fifth International Piano Competition” in Moscow.

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#439796 - 09/11/01 08:47 AM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Zelda,

Your friend was not a prize-winner of that competition. He was a contestant. netizen is correct. Here is the winners list of that year:

1st Mikhail Pletnev (USSR)
2nd Pascal Devoyons (France)
2nd Andre Laplante (Canada)
3rd Nikolai Demidenko (USSR)
3rd Evgeny Ryvkin (USSR)
4th Terens Jado (UK)
4th Boris Petrov (USSR)
5th Christian Blackshaw (UK)
6th Naum Grubert (USSR)

Rgds,
AndrewG

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: AndrewG ]

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#439797 - 09/11/01 03:28 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
ZeldaHanson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 276
Loc: Cape Cod, MA, USA
Ok I must have mistinterpreted what he told me about the event and assumed untrue facts.

Zeldah
_________________________
Glenn Gould in regards to music:

The problem begins when one forgets the artificiality of it all, when one neglects to pay homage to those designations that to our minds-to our reflect senses, perhaps-make of music an analyzable commodity. The trouble begins when we start to become so impressed by the strategies of ours systematized thought that we forget that it does relate to an obverse, that it is hewn from negation, that it is but a very small security against the void of negation which surrounds it.

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#439798 - 09/11/01 04:36 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5228
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by ZeldaHanson:
Ok I must have mistinterpreted what he told me about the event and assumed untrue facts.

Zeldah[/b]


Why does everything have to be a personal insult to you? It's not like they were purposely rubbing it in your face (Andrew is far too nice for that); it was a simple correction.

Edit:
PianoMuse,

It is a very difficult piece by any standards, IMHO. I tried it a few years ago and thought that the writing was a little unpianistic (puts your hands in awkward positions or requires extreme ends of a technical device). It's much more difficult to play than Rachmaninoff 2nd (for my hands). The melodies and Tchaikovsky's luscious harmonic language really make it worth the struggle, though. The slow theme in the first movement is divine.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Brendan ]
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http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#439799 - 09/12/01 05:58 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Brendan,

I'm sorry to butt in here, but I must admit that when I read Zelda's reply, I did not interpret it at all the same way you did. I get the impression she was simply correcting herself and taking responsibility for her statement. I think if you re-read it you will see what I mean.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#439800 - 09/13/01 01:48 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
ZeldaHanson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 276
Loc: Cape Cod, MA, USA
Thank you for that statement Bernard. It's true; I was simply correcting myself. I felt foolish to have assumed that because he told me he entered the competition, that he had won.But Im still excited for Emile. \:\)

to Brendan:

I think just because most of my past posts were defending myself dramatically from insulting statements that now you view everything I say as though I'm using a snobby tone. I'm not.
_________________________
Glenn Gould in regards to music:

The problem begins when one forgets the artificiality of it all, when one neglects to pay homage to those designations that to our minds-to our reflect senses, perhaps-make of music an analyzable commodity. The trouble begins when we start to become so impressed by the strategies of ours systematized thought that we forget that it does relate to an obverse, that it is hewn from negation, that it is but a very small security against the void of negation which surrounds it.

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#439801 - 09/13/01 03:36 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4110
Since we are on this subject, I have a question. Would it be a good idea to play this concerto with a 2nd piano, for a school concert? I think the only problem would be how the 2 pianos would interact in the concert hall, if the sound would be close to the orchestra effects (of course the piano is not an orchestra or close to it). I have only heard this in smaller rooms, so I am curious if anybody has any experience or thinks this is a good idea. ( since the school has no orchestra)

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#439802 - 09/13/01 06:46 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
CrashTest,

It will undoubtedly depend on the hall and it's acoustics. I have heard parts of a Beethoven concerto with the orchestral part played by a second piano in a recital hall of decent size. I mean it wasn't huge but it wasn't small either, maybe 300 seats(?), but the acoustics were good and the concerto sounded OK.

Of course, when you say School concert I immediately think gymnasium because that is where we had concerts when I was in school. In this situation, it would not sound good, I think.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#439803 - 09/14/01 03:23 PM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4110
It is not in a gym, but an auditorium with about 1000 seats. The acoustics are very good, so I think the concertos should sound good with only 2 pianos.

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#439804 - 09/15/01 10:40 AM Re: Tchaikovsy Concerto 1...ohhh boy....
Mat D. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 512
Loc: Sterling Heights, Michigan
 Quote:
Originally posted by CrashTest:
Since we are on this subject, I have a question. Would it be a good idea to play this concerto with a 2nd piano, for a school concert? I think the only problem would be how the 2 pianos would interact in the concert hall, if the sound would be close to the orchestra effects... ( since the school has no orchestra)[/b]


For 2 piano playing, a larger acoustic space works better than a small. In a small room it is almost impossible to distinguish one piano part from the other, but the larger space lets the sound develope which makes it much easier for the listener's ear to seperate the parts.

Another idea that has worked for me on one occasion is to use a digital piano for the "orchestra" part. This will allow you to experiment with different sounds for the 2nd piano--

Mat D.

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