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I'm gonna be having auditions for schools next year I believe in february [February 2010, just to clarify] And although I have most of the pieces I'm going to play picked out, I need one more.
currently, my plan is Bach's P&F 4 in C#m for the baroque requirement, all of Mozart's Sonata K283 in G, and a Chopin Etude. [I'd love to play 10/3 as it's my favorite Etude, but I'll see how well my first ones come along when I start them in 6 months or so and decide then. I'll likely end up playing 10/9] But I need a romantic or 20th century piece that'll be within my playing level at that time.
Here are the exact requirements for UCLA [the school I really hope to attend] "Applicants for admission to the undergraduate program in piano performance must prepare four works: Three representing a different period from the baroque, classical, romantic, or 20th century repertoire and one etude by Chopin, Liszt, Scriabin, or Rachmanninoff."
I figure that even though these pieces aren't the most "virtuoso" pieces if I play them well with great musicality then I'll be fine. I'm needing to pick pieces that'll be within my grasp over the next year.
So, any suggestion of pieces will be greatly appreciated. Maybe something that'll show another aspect of my playing. The P&F is showing my ability to handle multiple voices, the sonata is really showing my musicality and ability to play legato, the Etude will be showing a certain level of technical ability along with musicality in a more lyrical flowing piece rather than mozart sonata style, and now I need one more showing something else. Any advice is welcome, I'll make sure I listen to any pieces recommended. Obviously I want a piece I like musically, so that'll be a factor in my choice.
The reason I'm wanting to get all my pieces picked now is so I can show them to my teacher and make sure I have plenty of time to work on them. Remember, the piece needs to be a romantic or 20th century piece. I've got my Baroque and Classical covered. Thanks!
Also, any advice on changing pieces that I've already picked is completely welcome. Please bear in mind my approximate technical level with these suggestions though....I obviously won't be able to learn Beethoven's Hammerklaver [or how ever you spell it....]
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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You should really prepare all: Baroque, Classical, Romantic, 20th Century + A virtuoso etude.
This way you'll be covered for every possible audition, anywhere (except Curtis)
By Romantic, they would mean a large piece - Ballades, Scherzos, etc.
I don't know what level you are at, but perhaps some Ravel would be nice for you to play?
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I'm not sure they mean ballades and scherzo'z just because...if you can already play ballades and Scherzo's then there isn't to much more you can really grow in your performance and tehcnical level....even though if I could play one that'd be fantastic. Right now I'm learning a Bach 3 part invention, a mozart sonata, and a chopin waltz. [check sig] Which I've got a plan on which pieces to learn to build up my technical level.
And your suggestion of preparing all five pieces is a good one, I'll probably do that now.
I'll go ahead and listen to Ravel, I've honestly never listened to any pieces by him. Any particular suggestions?
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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John, I understand that UCLA is extremely competitive nowadays. Are the academic requirements for admission the same for a piano performance major as for any other?
Steven
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for ravel pieces i would suggest you listen to:
sonatine La Valse Jeux Deau Mirroirs suite Gaspard de la nuit
there is a start for you anyway...
Zac
"I don't think I handle the notes much differently from other pianists. But the pauses between the notes - ah, there is where the artistry lies" - Artur Schnabel
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Originally posted by sotto voce: John, I understand that UCLA is extremely competitive nowadays. Are the academic requirements for admission the same for a piano performance major as for any other?
Steven Well I'm going to be transferring from a community college where I live to there with a list of set requirements on what classes I need to take at the community college. I'm going to be applying for piano performance and for composition. I'd love to double major if I can. For composition you need to submit three scores written for various instruments, not just piano. If I don't get into either piano performance or composition but I do get into the college, I'll likely become a general music major and see where I can go from there. I'll be auditioning at a number of different schools though. And thanks for the Ravel pieces!
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Muczynski Toccata, Op. 15
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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although the Muczynski Toccata is very technically impressive and virtuosic....I don't like it musically. I'd much prefer to do the Ravel Sonatina....even though I'm thinking that's a bit out of my technical range. .
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Originally posted by xxmynameisjohnxx: although the Muczynski Toccata is very technically impressive and virtuosic....I don't like it musically. I'd much prefer to do the Ravel Sonatina....even though I'm thinking that's a bit out of my technical range. . Well, in view of what you said earlier about prefering to play something less demanding but to play it well, this would be one way to kill the audition, wouldn't it? Not to pour cold water on your aspirations, but it seems that you have a very long way to go if, at the moment, you are at the level of a Bach 3-part Invention, a Mozart Sonata and a Chopin Waltz. Just be realistic about the competition; you may be up against students who have been playing advanced repertoire for several years. Best of luck. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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Originally posted by BruceD: Originally posted by xxmynameisjohnxx: [b] although the Muczynski Toccata is very technically impressive and virtuosic....I don't like it musically. I'd much prefer to do the Ravel Sonatina....even though I'm thinking that's a bit out of my technical range. . Well, in view of what you said earlier about prefering to play something less demanding but to play it well, this would be one way to kill the audition, wouldn't it?
Not to pour cold water on your aspirations, but it seems that you have a very long way to go if, at the moment, you are at the level of a Bach 3-part Invention, a Mozart Sonata and a Chopin Waltz. Just be realistic about the competition; you may be up against students who have been playing advanced repertoire for several years.
Best of luck.
Regards, [/b]Yeah, I'm pretty nervous about the competition since I didn't get into classical music earlier...but I'm determined. And, to be honest, the 3 part invention isn't that challenging technically. It's just getting me used to playing three voices before I move to a fugue. I did one 2 part invention, am going straight to a 3 part, and then am either going to do one more 3 part or go straight to a P&F. The mozart sonata also isn't that technically challenging. Then again, from what I've read, the challenge of mozart is not playing the notes, it's making them sing. That's why I think taking the mozart sonata and just blowing it out of the park musically is a good idea, and showing technical ability with other pieces. I just downloaded a Ravel complete piano sheet music torrent....yet it didn't include the sonatine. Strange. I'll look more.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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You could try Ginastera's Danzas Argentinas or Brahms' Rhapsody Op. 79 No. 2 for your Romantic/20th-century piece. I don't know if I'd recommend doing the Op. 10 No. 3 as your etude because I imagine they are looking to assess your technical adeptness for the one etude. If I were you, I'd try to learn Op. 10 No. 11, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 1, or Op. 25 No. 5 if you have your heart set on Chopin.
Good luck!
Bach - WTC I in C major & C minor (BWV 846-847) Mozart - Sonata K 282 Chopin - Polonaises Op 26 Schumann - Fantasiestücke Op 12
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I think for the etude, Chopin's op 10 no. 3 is a candidate. In the same league as this I would also recommend you Scriabin's Opus 8 no. 11. You will be crossing hands a bit but it is a slower piece and music that you can dig your hands into.
As for a piece from the romantic period, I have no clue what to suggest, as I am quite unsure of how you play. You may need suggestions fro your teacher there.
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Originally posted by akonow: You could try Ginastera's Danzas Argentinas or Brahms' Rhapsody Op. 79 No. 2 for your Romantic/20th-century piece. I don't know if I'd recommend doing the Op. 10 No. 3 as your etude because I imagine they are looking to assess your technical adeptness for the one etude. If I were you, I'd try to learn Op. 10 No. 11, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 1, or Op. 25 No. 5 if you have your heart set on Chopin.
Good luck! The Ginastera piece is pretty interesting, I might look at it if I can't find a better one. The first movement is good, the 2nd movement is beautiful, but I'm not a big fan of the third. haha. And the Etude....well. I'm just not sure I could get 10/12 up to speed...but that is an option. Although 10/12 will certainly be overplayed at auditions as it's so popular. Etude 10/3, from what I've seen in the music, is actually fairly technically challenging in the middle section with the tritone jumps and stuff. I'm rather liking the Brahms rhapsody, I'm listening to it now. And my heart is set on Chopin because of a few reasons, I freaking love him, Lizst Etudes are considerably harder from what I've seen, and I don't know any Etudes by Scriabin or Rachmanninoff. Originally posted by William Penafiel: I think for the etude, Chopin's op 10 no. 3 is a candidate. In the same league as this I would also recommend you Scriabin's Opus 8 no. 11. You will be crossing hands a bit but it is a slower piece and music that you can dig your hands into.
As for a piece from the romantic period, I have no clue what to suggest, as I am quite unsure of how you play. You may need suggestions fro your teacher there. Thanks, I'll check out Scribian's opus 8/11. I'm assuming that's another Etude? Or is this a piece for my romantic suggestion? And, is there any way I can help make you less unsure about how I play? :p I'll talk to my teacher monday if I can't find a piece by then.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Yes, Scriabin's opus 8 no. 11 is a beautiful etude, will sound sort of like a nocturne. Here's a recording of it by the one and only Volodya! Alexander Scriabin- Etude opus 8 no. 11 and here's a very warm account of it as well by Sviatoslav Richter! Alexander Scriabin- Etude opus 8 no. 11 ...enjoy...
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Yeah I just gave it a listen to. I heard the Horowitz recording, but I'll listen to the richter one you posted here. :]. It is a beautiful Etude. I think that 10/3 is the more technical though simply because of the middle section of 10/3 is rather complex. I could honestly play 10/3 without much of a problem right now if it weren't for that part. I was sight reading through the hands separate the other day and the first page really wasn't that bad.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Originally posted by xxmynameisjohnxx: Yeah I just gave it a listen to. I heard the Horowitz recording, but I'll listen to the richter one you posted here. :]. It is a beautiful Etude. I think that 10/3 is the more technical though simply because of the middle section of 10/3 is rather complex. I could honestly play 10/3 without much of a problem right now if it weren't for that part. I was sight reading through the hands separate the other day and the first page really wasn't that bad. Actually, you'll come to find that the theme is the more difficult section if you do the whole thing. The technical part is easy to get down with a good deal of practice but you really have to have an ear for the two melodies you are playing with the right hand in the outer sections. Dynamically, these sections are very demanding. That's the thing about this etude: it may very well be as difficult as a few other Chopin etudes but it doesn't look like it when you're playing it.
Bach - WTC I in C major & C minor (BWV 846-847) Mozart - Sonata K 282 Chopin - Polonaises Op 26 Schumann - Fantasiestücke Op 12
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Originally posted by akonow: [Actually, you'll come to find that the theme is the more difficult section if you do the whole thing. The technical part is easy to get down with a good deal of practice but you really have to have an ear for the two melodies you are playing with the right hand in the outer sections. Dynamically, these sections are very demanding. That's the thing about this etude: it may very well be as difficult as a few other Chopin etudes but it doesn't look like it when you're playing it. Well then,that works out. I assume that the judges are musically educated enough to know that the piece is indeed challenging. :]. I've read that a lot of judges prefer to hear very well played, albeit difficult, but not "virtuosic" pieces.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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John, I see you're from San Diego - Who's your teacher if you don't mind me asking? (PM me if you'd like). I'd suggest making careful decisions with your teacher on the repertoire you plan to have.
Although UCLA isn't a top tier conservatory in the U.S it does have a very strong music program and you'll need a lot of hard work.
With your comment on the ballades and scherzos - There are much harder pieces technically than those and to be frank, there are quite a lot of teenagers not yet in college already playing these (mind you - many playing them pretty poorly)
If you do have your Etude set on Chopin, I'd personally recommend something by another composer.
Perhaps based on your level: Look at some of the Schubert Impromptus? You could also dwell into some of Liszt's music. Schumann's Aufschwung would provide a very nice contrast. Although that piece may be slightly on the short side. Brahms ballade in g minor is also a very nice piece. A very little known piece that I love is Saint-Saens Allegro Appasionato Op. 70.
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I really, really like the Brahms ballade in Gm now that I've given it a listen. I'll give the sheet music a look over once I get it and talk about the piece with my teacher, but I think that's a very good candidate right now. And if I were to do Schumann's Aufschwung, I would play all of Fantasistucke to add to the time.
Although the Schubert impromptu's are fantastic....they don't add much of a contrast to what I'm already playing. The Brahms does and so would the Schumann.
Oh, and the Saint-Saens was wonderful, but I can't seem to find sheet music online...or even a good recording. The only recordings I found were of kids playing them....and not playing them very well. haha.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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if your still looking for the ravel sonatine, you should be able to find the sheet music on www.imslp.org Zac
"I don't think I handle the notes much differently from other pianists. But the pauses between the notes - ah, there is where the artistry lies" - Artur Schnabel
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Hi mynameisjohn.
I was thinking since you are already learning some Debussy it may be worth looking at him as an option as well for your 4th piece. I think it would provide a good contrast to your other 3 pieces and also you could go for a more virtuosic Debussy piece with less risk (than say going for a virtuosic Beethoven or Bach).
One of the preludes I think would be a good choice. There are a lot to chose from but specifically: From BOOK 1 No.7 - <A HREF="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=deR7Je457aw">Ce qu'a vu le vent d'ouest</A> (Note: these aren't necessarily my favourite recordings, just what i found on youtube) No.11 - <A HREF="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=t1-Dk9Jd0bA">La danse de Puck</A> (an easier option)
BOOK 2 you would have to listen to the others as well but I like: No.4 - <A HREF="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=LT5JL68RXec">Les fees sont d'exquises danseuses</a>
Good luck in finding the right piece for you! Also don't be intimidated by younger people playing Ravel's "Gaspard de la Nuit" or whatever other rediculous technical challenge they may be playing, because I think you have the right idea to try and nail everything musically!
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Ah I hadn't really thought about Debussy. Thanks for that tip. I feel like I do need at least one piece that is a technical challenge other than the Etude. I'll give those a listen.
Also, has anyone here played the Brahms ballade op. 118 no 3 in Gm? I like the piece quite a bit, but I wanted to know what you think of its difficulty level and if it would be something that would be plausible for me to do.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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How about "Drop Kick Me, Jesus, Through the Goal Posts of Life..."
Shows versatility and bankability...
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Carl Vine Piano Sonata no.1
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I'de never heard of Carl Vine before...but I am liking this Sonata. Where can I get the sheets to check it out?
Actually, nvm. Again, a very technically impressive pieces...but I dunno. The middle climax section just is just to atonal for me.
What do you guys think of Philip Glass?
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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"Nothing is more intolerable than to have to admit to yourself your own errors."
~Ludwig van Beethoven~
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You need to talk this over with your teacher.
Many of the suggested pieces so far(all the Ravel except the Sonatine, Vine Sonata, Debussy What the West Wind Saw, 1st and 3rd Argentine Dances)are many years beyond your current level and IMHO totally inappropriate. I know someone who plays the Vine Sonata and he was *performing* concertos at 15 or 16.
You casually said you'd learn all of Schumann's Fantasy Pieces but several of those are extremely difficult plus the entire work is extremely long(longer than your entire recital program).
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I think age is irrelevant here. Level of skill is more appropriate.
BTW: I do think that a consultation with your teacher would be your best bet and that a more appropriate (but far less interesting) choice would be to play some Rach, Sriabin, Liszt, or Chopin.
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Originally posted by phanofbeethoven: I think age is irrelevant here. Level of skill is more appropriate.
Assuming you are responding to my last post my point was that the person who was ready to learn the Vine Sonata(and NOT as incoming audition piece!)was at age 15 or 16 light years ahead in skill(they were performing concerti with orchestra)of where the original poster is now. So recommending the Vine Sonata is off the wall.
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Originally posted by phanofbeethoven: you can get the sheets from sheetmusicplus.com
Is this for undergrad?
If so the jury members will probably be impressed that an incoming freshmen is already delving into some atonal 20th century music and I bet they'll also be impressed that you're playing something they haven't heard at the auditions yet. Anyway, good luck with everything!
btw: this piece is also quite challenging to memorize....as you might have already guessed.
Also try listening to John Adams Phrygian Gates it's another interesting piece.
Philip Glass is also good and so is Gao Ping (chinese). Yeah this is for undergrad. :]. And although I certainly recognize the technical difficulty of many atonal pieces, I just don't like how dissonant most of them are. It just doesn't hit me as something I'd want to listen to or play.... I'll listen to the piece you suggested in a bit, I'm checking out some various Philip Glass pieces now. Originally posted by pianoloverus: You need to talk this over with your teacher.
Many of the suggested pieces so far(all the Ravel except the Sonatine, Vine Sonata, Debussy What the West Wind Saw, 1st and 3rd Argentine Dances)are many years beyond your current level and IMHO totally inappropriate. I know someone who plays the Vine Sonata and he was *performing* concertos at 15 or 16.
You casually said you'd learn all of Schumann's Fantasy Pieces but several of those are extremely difficult plus the entire work is extremely long(longer than your entire recital program). I know many of these pieces that were suggested are well beyond me. Once the Vine Sonata got to the crazy atonal part, I knew it would be incredibly difficult to play and was past me. The beginning seemed like it would be a challenge but doable. And sorry about not knowing how long the fantasy pieces are. This was what I meant, specifically just learning this: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=NRWWP7H-9SQ&feature=related That is neither technically beyond my capabilities nor to long. and to phanofbeethoven: I'm wanting to pick both a 20th century piece, currently it's likely to be something by Glass, and also pick a romantic piece so I'll be prepared for an audition anywhere.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Question, what would you guys think of Fantasie Impromptu? It would show both musicality and technique....but I'm sure that other pianists will audition with the piece, and it's played by almost everyone. Honestly, it's played so much for good reason, but still.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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I think you should really start talking to your teacher about this now (and to be honest, I would probably steer clear of the Fantasie...unless you REALLY love it and think you can make it your own)
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Oh I'm gonna talk to my teacher on monday, but if I can have three or four different pieces printed out so I can show him the music in case he doesn't know it that'd be good. I'll let him have a very big say in what pieces I'll be able to play, but I want to narrow it down some.
And yeah, i thought I ought to steer clear of Fantasie. I really love the piece....but it's sooo overplayed.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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xxmynameisjohnxx: regarding some of the Ravel, the Vine sonata, these are as 'pianoloverus' has mentioned many years ahead of you. Not that we are underestimating you, but I have seen and studied the entire 1st 2 sonatas of Vine and they will prove impossible to you.I know 'phanofbeethoven' may have a sincere interest in motivating you, which is appreciated, but being realistic is a key here.
You should really consult with your teacher who surely knows what you are capable of instead oof all us forums members who have never seen you play or have any idea of what you're capable of.
best wishes
PS: if you want a great 20th century piece that is doable for you, send me a PM if genuinely interested. I can send you '3 Preludes' by composer Samuel Adler, very much in the style of Debussy. You will shock the jury!
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I'm with the others who are saying that some of the repertoire suggested here - Vine, for example - are not suitable for an undergraduate audition. Originally posted by zp3929: for ravel pieces i would suggest you listen to:
sonatine La Valse Jeux Deau Mirroirs suite Gaspard de la nuit
there is a start for you anyway...
Zac La Valse for an undergrad? Gaspard, for an undergrad? You, sir, are insane. Not only are those pieces some of the most difficult pieces of piano repertoire as of right now, they require a certain maturity and experience of many other styles of music to pull off. MyNameisJohn, I think that a good progression for you - once you're out of the inventions, and firmly into WTC, past Beethoven op. 14 no. 2, through some of the Mozart sonatas (F major, Bb major, Eb major) it'd be a good time to start worming your way into Romantic music. Schumann's Fantasiestucke is as a whole demanding, but the Aufschwung should prove doable. Same with Brahms intermezzo op. 76 no. 7 in a - nice intro to some later Brahms and the chromaticism with which he composed. For even more Romantic/20th century music, look into Faure noctures, preludes, or impromptus. Some of them can be learned well for an undergrad audition, and moreover they're not played all that often.
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Originally posted by Minaku: I'm with the others who are saying that some of the repertoire suggested here - Vine, for example - are not suitable for an undergraduate audition.
Originally posted by zp3929: [b] for ravel pieces i would suggest you listen to:
sonatine La Valse Jeux Deau Mirroirs suite Gaspard de la nuit
there is a start for you anyway...
Zac La Valse for an undergrad? Gaspard, for an undergrad? You, sir, are insane. Not only are those pieces some of the most difficult pieces of piano repertoire as of right now, they require a certain maturity and experience of many other styles of music to pull off.
MyNameisJohn, I think that a good progression for you - once you're out of the inventions, and firmly into WTC, past Beethoven op. 14 no. 2, through some of the Mozart sonatas (F major, Bb major, Eb major) it'd be a good time to start worming your way into Romantic music. Schumann's Fantasiestucke is as a whole demanding, but the Aufschwung should prove doable. Same with Brahms intermezzo op. 76 no. 7 in a - nice intro to some later Brahms and the chromaticism with which he composed. For even more Romantic/20th century music, look into Faure noctures, preludes, or impromptus. Some of them can be learned well for an undergrad audition, and moreover they're not played all that often. [/b]Well right now I'm just gonna learn one mozart sonata so I don't over extend myself. I figure, if I can play my Sonata like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM9zYESCfHY Then I'll be quite well off...which with a whole year focusing on just one Sonata I'll be able to do. Agreed? And thanks for the other piece suggestions. I was indeed not meaning that I would play all of Fantasiestucke op. 12. I was meaning the first 3 movements. that ought to prove very doable. That'll definitely be one piece I talk over with my teacher. I'll look at the Brahms and the Faure you suggested as well and see if I like them/would be doable for me. Thanks for the reply!
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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To be honest John, audition repertoire even for a school at UCLA will most likely be considered an easier repertoire.
I would really consider adding a more virtuosic piece. The Schubert 90/2 is beautiful but I don't think it has enough substance personally. Really take a look at the Saint-Saens.
Also, I'd suggest going up to UCLA and contacting some of the faculty there and play for them. You'll get a better feel for what they expect. And this way you can be sure your on par with their expectations.
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Oh I forgot about the Saint-Saens. I hadn't been able to find a good recording of the piece when I was trying to though. I guess I do need a more virtuosic piece.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Originally posted by xxmynameisjohnxx: Oh I forgot about the Saint-Saens. I hadn't been able to find a good recording of the piece when I was trying to though. I guess I do need a more virtuosic piece. You need to stop. Read what everyone has said. Think about it. Consider the source. And talk to your teacher. People on this board like to help. So if someone is seeking attention, it's easy to get it. But at some point you need to stop egging the discussion on and act on it. The bottom line, at least from my perspective, is that you really, really need to work with a teacher who can give you realistic goals. It's admirable that you've decided to become a classical pianist at your "advanced" age, but the bottom line is that you are apparently very far behind many folks your age. That's not to say that you could never catch up. But getting advice on how to skip 4 levels of repertoire from a bunch of people who have never heard you play isn't the way to start. One other point. You said something about printing out copies of the music that has been mentioned in this thread to show it to your teacher. Leaving aside some of the truly bizarre suggestions (hey, let's learn some Alkan!), if your teacher doesn't know this music, then you need a new teacher.
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Originally posted by wdot: You need to stop. Read what everyone has said. Think about it. Consider the source. And talk to your teacher. People on this board like to help. So if someone is seeking attention, it's easy to get it. But at some point you need to stop egging the discussion on and act on it. The bottom line, at least from my perspective, is that you really, really need to work with a teacher who can give you realistic goals. It's admirable that you've decided to become a classical pianist at your "advanced" age, but the bottom line is that you are apparently very far behind many folks your age. That's not to say that you could never catch up. But getting advice on how to skip 4 levels of repertoire from a bunch of people who have never heard you play isn't the way to start. One other point. You said something about printing out copies of the music that has been mentioned in this thread to show it to your teacher. Leaving aside some of the truly bizarre suggestions (hey, let's learn some Alkan!), if your teacher doesn't know this music, then you need a new teacher. [/QUOTE] I'm not seeking attention, I'm trying to get advice from people who know the classical repertoire better than I do. I honestly have no idea what I'm gonna play right now. I've said numerous times I am going to get advice from my teacher, but if I can come in with an idea of what I want to play that's a good thing. And I wouldn't be skipping 4 levels of repertoire, the pieces that were suggested that would be that advanced were things I looked at, but was never really considering it because I knew it was to difficult. And you may be forgetting that I'm 16. I'm honestly not that far behind my friends who've been playing classical their whole lives. I have been playing my whole life, just not much classical. The only kids I'm very far behind are the ones who are really advanced for their age.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Originally posted by xxmynameisjohnxx: The only kids I'm very far behind are the ones who are really advanced for their age. Or, in other words, those who are also 16 and are really advanced. Don't underestimate their achievements, their determination or their sheer numbers. They are plentiful, and they are your competition. Steven
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Originally posted by sotto voce: Originally posted by xxmynameisjohnxx: [b]The only kids I'm very far behind are the ones who are really advanced for their age. Or, in other words, those who are also 16 and are really advanced. Don't underestimate their achievements, their determination or their sheer numbers. They are plentiful, and they are your competition.
Steven [/b]I guess I just don't personally know any of them that are incredibly advanced. The classical pianists I know are a bit above my level, but I'll be there within 6 months. The best one I know just finished Fantasy Impromptu. FI is an impressive pieces, but it's really not outrageously out of my technical range. I've played the opening bars of it before just screwing around.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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I'm 16 also and haven't really explored much of any 20th century music >< also thinking about auditioning for schools. I feel I can defnitely relate to your situation. one of my best friends is a pianist who is probably about 6 months to a year ahead of me.
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Yeah we're pretty much in the same situation. I'm advancing very rapidly though; a little over a year ago I couldn't read music, my first teacher never made me, I didn't know any chords and couldn't really play, then I got into music theory and private lessons, learned to read while playing through a simple level 2 book, skipped level 3 straight to 4, and have played through half of that book but am putting that book on hold because all the pieces are now below my level and I need to begin to work on audition repertoire. My friend used to be 2-3 years ahead of me, and now he's maybe 6 months. But I still have a long way to go.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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And you want to teach?
I go back to my first ever comment to you - dig down, know the basics. Know how to produce the tone you want. Understand the different types of staccato, what style is appropriate for each period. There is so much that you need to come equipped with to undergraduate schooling, and then in the course of that undergraduate schooling you learn even more.
Difficulty of music cannot be quantified with time when you think of it as levels. If I've played twenty years, then I must be at level 60. It doesn't work that way. Your friend that you said is 2-3 years ahead of you has had more experience. Now, you could always cram a ton of experience into the next couple of years and come out of it with enough knowledge to get through an audition and go to undergraduate school.
Have a talk with your teacher. Ask him or her to lay out the good and the bad things about your playing. Go through an evaluation with her. Then you can start to see what road you should take in order to get yourself to UCLA.
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Originally posted by xxmynameisjohnxx: [...]I'm not seeking attention, I'm trying to get advice from people who know the classical repertoire better than I do. I honestly have no idea what I'm gonna play right now. I've said numerous times I am going to get advice from my teacher, but if I can come in with an idea of what I want to play that's a good thing.
Do you not see the flaw in much of your thinking in this thread? How are the many repertoire suggestions you have received - some about music you admitedly don't know - going to let you go to your teacher and "come in with an idea of what [you] want to play?" Someone says you should play the Vine Sonata, and that means now that you "want" to play the Vine Sonata - or whatever the latest suggestion was? I would not presume to make any suggestions about repertoire for you; instead, I will say that you should do what others have suggested and what you keep saying you are going to do: talk this whole idea of short- and long-term repertoire goals over with your teacher. Repertoire suggestions from those who don't know how you play are meaningless, if well intended, and are certainly not going to help you decide what you want to play. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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Originally posted by BruceD: Do you not see the flaw in much of your thinking in this thread? How are the many repertoire suggestions you have received - some about music you admitedly don't know - going to let you go to your teacher and "come in with an idea of what [you] want to play?" Someone says you should play the Vine Sonata, and that means now that you "want" to play the Vine Sonata - or whatever the latest suggestion was?
I would not presume to make any suggestions about repertoire for you; instead, I will say that you should do what others have suggested and what you keep saying you are going to do: talk this whole idea of short- and long-term repertoire goals over with your teacher. Repertoire suggestions from those who don't know how you play are meaningless, if well intended, and are certainly not going to help you decide what you want to play.
Regards, Haha no, I wasn't planning to print out the vine sonata, or any of the ravel, or any of the pieces that I decided would be much to difficult for me. The pieces I "want" to play were ones suggested that I listened to, liked musically, looked at the sheet music and thought would be doable for me, and then I checked it out at the piano to make sure that my assessment of being doable was right [sometimes just the sheet music is misleading in difficulty, either much easier or much more difficult] It'd be ridiculous for me to print out every single suggestion in here, that'd be a waste of paper. I narrowed it down to two or three of them and am going from there. the only reason I asked here was because apart from chopin, I'm not that familiar with the romantic music repertoire. But I'll also be asking my teacher for suggestions come monday....but until then I just wanted to get an idea of stuff I could play.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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I realize I'm jumping on the bandwagon a little late here, but I figured I'd reiterate some of the points that have been brought up. I'd really hate you to think I'm being overly negative, I really intend to be helpful.
1) Not sure if you meant to say this, but the comment you made on the difficulty of the Ballades and the Scherzos shows that you have a lot more music to explore and listen to, and learn how to listen to. That's not a bad thing, we were all there at one point. I can certainly remember thinking that Debussy's Clair De Lune and Chopin's Minute Waltz were 2 of the most difficult piano pieces. Keep doing what you're doing, and listen to a lot of different music, and following with the score in front of you is something I used to do a lot also.
2) I would highly advise against doing pieces like Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu and his 10/3 Etude at an audition like this. First, like others have mentioned, it's highly likely that you'll be up against other students who have been playing those works for years. Second, I'm sorry to say that in reality, they really aren't that technically impressive. This comment is of course relative, and it's not that impressive in the environment that you'll be in. Third, the "difficulty" issue added to the fact that they are such common place pieces, will make it very difficult to impress any weathered classical musician with them.
Example: I've recently seen both Evgeny Kissin and Valentina Lisitsa in solo recitals, and they both chose to play Liszt's Libestraum as an encore. My thought? "Aww, couldn't you have played something else?"
3) Someone mentioned that you should contact some of the faculty at UCLA and if possible, play for them, or at least talk to them and get an idea of what you are up against. I think that is just about the best constructive advice that anyone offered to you. If you've done this, great. If not, and you plan to try it, I suggest starting with one of your "back-up" schools first, to see how that goes, and then approach UCLA.
Finally, I'll just throw out a quick suggestion for your Romantic piece since everyone else has given their suggestions. Are you familiar with Brahms' late Intermizzi? While I think you should listen to all of them if you haven't, perhaps you could consider studying a few of them. I feel they would be much more musically challenging, than something like Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu. I also think they are very realistic goals judging by what you're currently playing, compared to some of the other suggestions that were made to you earlier on.
Op 116 no 1, 4, and 7, would make a nice set. Op 118 no 3 Op 119 no 3 and 4, would also make another duo in my opinion.
Just wanted to share my thoughts. But as everyone else has suggested, the first person to listen to would be your teacher. Best of luck to you!
Knock 'em dead!
Daniel
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And I'd be curious to know what you and your teacher decide, so keep us posted if you don't mind.
Daniel
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Originally posted by Ridicolosamente: I realize I'm jumping on the bandwagon a little late here, but I figured I'd reiterate some of the points that have been brought up. I'd really hate you to think I'm being overly negative, I really intend to be helpful.
1) Not sure if you meant to say this, but the comment you made on the difficulty of the Ballades and the Scherzos shows that you have a lot more music to explore and listen to, and learn how to listen to. That's not a bad thing, we were all there at one point. I can certainly remember thinking that Debussy's Clair De Lune and Chopin's Minute Waltz were 2 of the most difficult piano pieces. Keep doing what you're doing, and listen to a lot of different music, and following with the score in front of you is something I used to do a lot also.
2) I would highly advise against doing pieces like Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu and his 10/3 Etude at an audition like this. First, like others have mentioned, it's highly likely that you'll be up against other students who have been playing those works for years. Second, I'm sorry to say that in reality, they really aren't that technically impressive. This comment is of course relative, and it's not that impressive in the environment that you'll be in. Third, the "difficulty" issue added to the fact that they are such common place pieces, will make it very difficult to impress any weathered classical musician with them.
Example: I've recently seen both Evgeny Kissin and Valentina Lisitsa in solo recitals, and they both chose to play Liszt's Libestraum as an encore. My thought? "Aww, couldn't you have played something else?"
3) Someone mentioned that you should contact some of the faculty at UCLA and if possible, play for them, or at least talk to them and get an idea of what you are up against. I think that is just about the best constructive advice that anyone offered to you. If you've done this, great. If not, and you plan to try it, I suggest starting with one of your "back-up" schools first, to see how that goes, and then approach UCLA.
Finally, I'll just throw out a quick suggestion for your Romantic piece since everyone else has given their suggestions. Are you familiar with Brahms' late Intermizzi? While I think you should listen to all of them if you haven't, perhaps you could consider studying a few of them. I feel they would be much more musically challenging, than something like Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu. I also think they are very realistic goals judging by what you're currently playing, compared to some of the other suggestions that were made to you earlier on.
Op 116 no 1, 4, and 7, would make a nice set. Op 118 no 3 Op 119 no 3 and 4, would also make another duo in my opinion.
Just wanted to share my thoughts. But as everyone else has suggested, the first person to listen to would be your teacher. Best of luck to you!
Knock 'em dead!
Daniel Thanks for your advice. I didn't find it overly negative at all. To your first point, although I was mistaken with the level of some other repertoire when I mentioned the ballades and scherzo's being among the more difficult piano pieces [I still think they are some of the more difficult ones to perform well though] they are well above my level...and with the exception of possibly[unlikely I could] Ballade 3, there's no way I could play one within just a year. I certainly don't think Clair De Lune and Chopin waltzes are the most difficult piano pieces ever....infact I'm finding both of them rather easy. :p . And point 2, I had already dismissed FI....it was a consideration for a second...but honestly for me to do that well for auditions I'd need to play that at an extremely high level, near perfection, because of how commonly played they are. I didn't know etude 10/3 was that overplayed...but remember...I need to have an etude from Chopin, Liszt, Rach, or Scriabin....all of which I feel are fairly overplayed. Just wondering, which Etude would you suggest? I'm all ears to new ones and I hardly even know any etudes by the composers besides Chopin. 3rd point. I thought talking with someone at each of the schools was a brilliant idea and I had every intention of doing it. I probably won't talk with them though until I have the first 2 movements of my Mozart sonata down so I can play that for them. Haha. I wouldn't wanna go and not have anything to play. :p . Brahms 118 3 was definitely already on the radar for me...although that piece is fairly difficult. I was planning to show that one to my teacher on monday first because it's one of my favorite pieces that was suggested...and really one of my favorite pieces in general right now. I'll give the others a listen, I'm not all that familiar with Brahms so I can't say I know them right now. Thanks for your post!
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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For kicks, here are the etudes that are approved for performance at the next International Chopin Competition.
One of these Etudes A minor, Op. 10 No. 2 G sharp minor, Op. 25 No. 6 A minor, Op. 25 No. 11
One each from both A and B lists A C major, Op. 10 No 1 C sharp minor, Op. 10 No. 4 G flat major, Op. 10 No. 5 F major, Op. 10 No. 8 C minor, Op. 10 No. 12
B C major, Op. 10 No. 7 A flat major, Op. 10 No. 10 E flat major, Op. 10 No. 11 A minor, Op. 25 No. 4 E minor, Op. 25 No. 5 B minor, Op. 25 No. 10
Not really that relevant, but I just find it interesting that they limit which ones you can choose from. The more lyrical 10/3 is listed as an option under a different category. Consider 10/12 or 25/2.
Liszt's Transcendental Etudes are very demanding, but are you familiar with the Paganini Etudes? Perhaps you could consider something like the 5th Paganini Etude, "La Chasse".
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I can't choose a paganini Etude, it needs to be Chopin, Lizst, Rach, or Scribian. Good suggestion but I can't. 25/2 is a possibility.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Liszt composed a set of 12 Transcendental Etudes, but also a set of 6 Transcendental Studies after Paganini. Check out article on Wiki .
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Oh I thought you meant Etudes by Paganini, :p But then I realized the guys name is Pacini, not Paganini. I'll take a look at those Etudes.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Originally posted by Ridicolosamente: Not really that relevant, but I just find it interesting that they limit which ones you can choose from. Daniel I think they really want to ensure that every contenstant is technically superior.
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Originally posted by Ridicolosamente: Not really that relevant, but I just find it interesting that they limit which ones you can choose from. The more lyrical 10/3 is listed as an option under a different category. Consider 10/12 or 25/2. Daniel, I don't see 25/2 on that list. Was that a typo? Steven
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Holy heck, that paganini etude #5 has a sixth glissando.....that'd be hard....
Edit: I just went and played the sixth gliss and it wasn't that bad actually....with practice it'd be easy. I was able to do it decently first try. lol.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Originally posted by sotto voce: Originally posted by Ridicolosamente: [b]Not really that relevant, but I just find it interesting that they limit which ones you can choose from. The more lyrical 10/3 is listed as an option under a different category. Consider 10/12 or 25/2. Daniel, I don't see 25/2 on that list. Was that a typo?
Steven [/b]Oh I know it wasn't on the list, I was just making a general suggestion.
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Daniel, I realized that was probably the case after I posted. Thanks for clarifying.
Steven
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Ah I remember 25/2 now. If I were to do it, would it be a sin to think of the time signature as something like 12/8 to make the counting easier? I think the beat division and where the accents fall is the same. I think.
Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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