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#448563 - 08/26/07 11:39 PM Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
seximoleximo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 16
Loc: glasgow, scotland
she has no idea what music is!! to her everything seems to be a test, or challenge, i envy her ability, but i am certainly greatful i don't see everything as a techincal acheivement, rather than a piece of music


...yeh i needed to get that off my chest :\

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#448564 - 08/27/07 12:46 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Have you met her, or heard an interview with her?
_________________________
Sam

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#448565 - 08/27/07 01:35 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
I don't envy her ability...
watch her Chopin op 10/4 etude...
way too fast-no control, no clarity.

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#448566 - 08/27/07 02:41 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
midss Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Boston
I must admit though, I think she has great technical control. I was really mesmerized watching her hands, and I even picked up a few tips on fingering in her rendition of La Campanella:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0TV1Np1VXKI

I'm not crazy about the way she plays this musically (I prefer Yundi Li's best) but I still find it helpful watching her- technique is clear.

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#448567 - 08/27/07 02:52 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
check out Kemal Gekic's Campanella
lol he even looks like Liszt too!

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#448568 - 08/27/07 03:33 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
phonehome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 921
I saw her perform Rachmaninov's 2nd with my local orchestra. I found her interpretation to be borderline insulting.

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#448569 - 08/27/07 03:39 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
lol she breaks the opening chords of rach 2.
don't DO that.... yes. rachmaninoff did it ONCE. that doesn't mean anyone else can;)if your hands are too small, play another piece! lol the rest of the concerto wasn't great either
why do so many famous pianists not deserve their fame?

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#448570 - 08/27/07 08:18 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
seximoleximo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 16
Loc: glasgow, scotland
shes famous becuase from a strictly techincal point of view, shes flawless, she is amazingly gifted, shes like an extreme Kissin - not enough emotion, too much flair

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#448571 - 08/27/07 09:19 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10405
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
There are many reasons why classical music appeals to a small (and increasingly smaller, alas) group of people. I can't quite escape the feeling that one of those reasons is the hypercritical cannibalism ( ;\) ) often on display on forums like this. It makes classical music seem like elitist entertainment, and its adherents like snobs for whom nothing is quite good enough.

If I'm reading Sam correctly, that is what seems implied in his gentle slap on the collective wrist.
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https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#448572 - 08/27/07 09:34 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13811
Loc: Iowa City, IA
The problem I have with seximoleximo's criticism is that it's vague and poorly written. He ascribes to her an attitude that certainly can't be ascertained without being familiar with her on a personal level. I suspect he's basing his ideas on her recordings. If so, then he should criticize the recordings, not the person.

Read any good reviewer and you'll notice they don't make that mistake. They describe and compare, and they may even judge a recording to be inferior to other offerings, but they don't make the amateur mistake of judging the person. History and the public do that well enough.
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#448573 - 08/27/07 09:42 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Seximoleximo, I strongly disagree!!!! I have only heard from her: Chopin's etudes, op.10 no.1, 4, op.25 no.5,6,12, a Rach etude, and La Campanella. Now, I'm unfamiliar with the Rach etude, so I can't really judge that, but I thought the Chopin etudes were amazing. I found her 10.4 superb, and I thought it had great clarity!!! The 10.1, I enjoyed because she brought out the melody more than others do, yet I prefer the RH to remain the instructed forte. I also enjoyed her 25.12.
And as for op.25, no.5 and 6. . . . I loved them!!! Especially no.7, well and 6 to tell the truth!! She played both beautifully, with extreme delicacy.
I loved her La Campanella as well, I found the RH notes so gracefully played under her touch.
Her pianissimo also, I admired, and overall, from what I've heard, I think her playing is fabulous.
To be honest, I'm surprised so many people dislike her playing!!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#448574 - 08/27/07 09:49 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
jello_g Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 214
Loc: Toronto, Canada
There ought to be more blonds playing piano.

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#448575 - 08/27/07 09:54 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18223
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by jello_g:
There ought to be more blonds playing piano. [/b]
Now, where did I put the Clairol .... ?
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#448576 - 08/27/07 11:47 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
There are many reasons why classical music appeals to a small (and increasingly smaller, alas) group of people. I can't quite escape the feeling that one of those reasons is the hypercritical cannibalism ( ;\) ) often on display on forums like this. It makes classical music seem like elitist entertainment, and its adherents like snobs for whom nothing is quite good enough.

If I'm reading Sam correctly, that is what seems implied in his gentle slap on the collective wrist. [/b]
:)

Here is my review of Valentina Lisitsa.

1. She has recorded on DVD all 24 Chopin Etudes, which means that she has learned and played all 24 Chopin Etudes, and also that she has kept them all so well in her repertoire that she could (and did) record them all on one DVD.

2. She has learned and played, and maintains in her repertoire, all of the Beethoven Concertos; all of the Rachmaninov Concertos; all of the Chopin Concertos; both of the Shostakovich Concertos and 2 of the Liszt Concertos; 3 of the Prokofiev Concertos; 5 Mozart Concertos; and more.

3. She has on her website solo videos, which she recorded, of music that she learned and played by Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, and Rachmaninov.

4. She has achieved, and maintains, world-wide fame as a concert pianist, travelling all around the world to play the piano for people who pay to hear her play.

5. She has a professional duo partner, with whom she performs concerts for people who pay to hear her play.

6. She has her biography on wikipedia.

How many of us have any one of those points to our own credit?

Yes -- there are others who have done the same. Yes -- there are others whose interpretations some of us might prefer. Yes -- there are others whose achievements surpass even those of Valentina Lisitsa. No -- these facts do not diminish her tremendous achievements.

Now to the original point -- how do you know that she does not care about the musicality and interpretation of her music? How do you know that all she cares about is technique?

And why, given her very tremendous achievements, does she not deserve her fame?
_________________________
Sam

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#448577 - 08/28/07 11:36 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Yes!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#448578 - 08/28/07 05:04 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Shellman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 133
Loc: East Riding, Yorkshire, Englan...
I'm very impressed - I've also heard her recording of the Ginzbourg "Largo al Factotum" and it is incredible. Can't say I've heard much else though but on the evidence of this, I may well have to listen out for more!
Interestingly, I note that she plays with very high wrists.
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Jonathan

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#448579 - 08/28/07 05:44 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
And what about this sizzling performance of the Rachmaninov A minor Etude-tableau?

She's good.
_________________________
Jason

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#448580 - 08/28/07 06:10 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
She's amazing. And I rather liked her op. 25 no. 6.

Honestly, what are we but the peanut gallery? At the end of the days she's the one taking home the money and earning the fame.
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#448581 - 08/28/07 06:13 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Yes obviously, but if it was seen like that then there would be no forum at all.
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#448582 - 08/28/07 06:25 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by hopinmad:
Yes obviously, but if it was seen like that then there would be no forum at all.
And no one was required to join in the first place. Frankly, I don't think any of the prominent pianists we discuss could give a damn what we say.

Yet, this is not always the case. One of the BBC Message Boards -I'd rather not say which, but it is one I contribute to- is[/b] read by musicians who have been severely criticized, and I know as a private fact that some of them have been extremely offended.
_________________________
Jason

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#448583 - 08/28/07 09:28 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
A sporting a forum I was on before, resulted in a player reading criticism, was then determined to prove himself, and ended up having great success that year!

Oh no of course they don't give a damn, but I don't think we expect them to anyway, it's just a discussion amongst us isn't it?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#448584 - 08/28/07 09:58 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Pahl Bankschuler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 160
Loc: US
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
And what about this sizzling performance of the Rachmaninov A minor Etude-tableau?

She's good. [/b]
I agree with argerichfan about how good she is - this performance of the Rachmaninoff A minor Etude-tableau is astonishing and mesmerizing.

In my humble opinion, I think she is one of the great pianists of our time.

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#448585 - 08/28/07 11:45 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by hopinmad:
Oh no of course they don't give a damn, but I don't think we expect them to anyway, it's just a discussion amongst us isn't it?
Of course, hopinmad, you're quite correct. But tell that to the choirs within the Anglican rite who have been trashed on the BBC boards. It's usually about the psalm singing, and proves once more that opinions are like (fill in the blank), and everybody has one.
_________________________
Jason

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#448586 - 08/29/07 03:46 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Pahl Bankschuler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 160
Loc: US
For some reason she reminds me of Jacqueline Du Pre.

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#448587 - 09/02/07 02:12 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
The A minor Etude-tableaux is excellent: thanks for the link, Argerichfan. Rachmaninoff said that his inspiration for this piece was the story of Little Red Riding Hood and I think the pianist captures this brilliantly. And you can't fault her technique here.

mr_kitty: what's wrong with breaking the opening chords of Rach 2? There's a lot more to playing the piano and interpreting a piece than have hands big enough to play a tenth. It's hardly a reason to dismiss a performance. Ashkenazy breaks the chords and no-one has told him not to play Rachmaninoff!

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#448588 - 09/02/07 03:25 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by timbo77:
mr_kitty: what's wrong with breaking the opening chords of Rach 2? There's a lot more to playing the piano and interpreting a piece than have hands big enough to play a tenth.
My hands are just big enough to take the opening of Rachmaninov 2 without breaking, but I would not do that in performance. Rachmaninov did not do so in his recording. He felt for musical reasons that they sounded better broken. And I tend to agree. Take the first chord without breaking, but break the subsequent chords with an increasing intensity. IMHO, ofcourse.
_________________________
Jason

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#448589 - 09/02/07 11:12 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 2480
Loc: Alexandria, Egypt
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by timbo77:
mr_kitty: what's wrong with breaking the opening chords of Rach 2? There's a lot more to playing the piano and interpreting a piece than have hands big enough to play a tenth.
My hands are just big enough to take the opening of Rachmaninov 2 without breaking, but I would not do that in performance. Rachmaninov did not do so in his recording. He felt for musical reasons that they sounded better broken. And I tend to agree. Take the first chord without breaking, but break the subsequent chords with an increasing intensity. IMHO, ofcourse. [/b]
As long as they are not rolled imo

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#448590 - 09/03/07 02:42 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
Again, I see no problem with rolling the chords: I'm really not sure it matters that much so long as the interpretation as a whole is effective. So there is no problem at all with Argerichfan's approach of breaking the chords with successive intensity, even though it's not in the score and I wouldn't perform it like that myself.

There are many points in the second concerto that require a 10th span but I'm quite confident that unless you knew the score, you wouldn't even notice if someone rolled or broke the chord (two instances in the second movement immediately spring to mind, one in each hand).

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#448591 - 09/03/07 03:11 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by timbo77:
even though it's not in the score and I wouldn't perform it like that myself.[/b]
But you see, the score is so over-rated -- we have recordings of Rachmaninov himself playing this concerto, and he breaks some of the chords.

It's not a question of ability -- some of the chords he plays solid, and others he plays broken. He had huge hands.

So *what* is the composer's intentions? And what is the validity of resting on the score as an excuse for not liking a particular way of playing, when [1] the composer himself did not play the way it is written in the score, and [2] the composer himself played it the way you don't like?

By all means, play how you'd like -- there are so many wonderful ways to play music. I don't advocate standing rigidly by the composer's recording, nor do I advocate standing rigidly by the composer's score.

But your evidence of the score, in this example, doesn't quite work.

(IMO -- the required signature, right? Of course it's my opinion... if it wasn't, I wouldn't write it! )
_________________________
Sam

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#448592 - 09/03/07 06:05 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
ecm Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 1276
Loc: Republic of Macedonia
We all know how good Valentina is.
She never stops to amaze me technically, but just take a listen at her tone, she has no knowledge at all of different colors the piano can produce.
Musically? I can't think of worse playing.
Even Lang Lang sounds better, and believe me I do NOT like him.

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#448593 - 09/03/07 09:05 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
I think Lang Lang, and Valentina Lisitsa, are amazing pianists!!!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#448594 - 09/03/07 09:57 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
.....you probably like Liberace too
Rachmaninoff broke the opening chords in op 18 once. Once. He wanted to see how it would sound. It didn't sound good. If he wanted them broken, he would have indicated that in the score. He didn't.
I'm not saying if you break those chords you go to Hell... all I'm saying is your opening of op 18 will be lame sauce.

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#448595 - 09/03/07 10:00 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
Rachmaninoff broke the opening chords in op 18 once. Once.[/b]
How many recordings have you heard of Rachmaninov playing this concerto?
_________________________
Sam

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#448596 - 09/03/07 10:05 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
He wanted to see how it would sound. It didn't sound good. If he wanted them broken, he would have indicated that in the score. He didn't.[/b]
If he tried it -- just to see how it would sound -- and he didn't like it, then why would he release it on a commercial recording?
_________________________
Sam

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#448597 - 09/03/07 10:07 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
If he wanted them broken, he would have indicated that in the score. He didn't. [/b]
Maybe he didn't have a preference -- so he just wrote the chords, with the understanding that there are multiple ways of playing them (such as the way he played in his recording).
_________________________
Sam

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#448598 - 09/03/07 10:10 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
I'm not saying if you break those chords you go to Hell... [/b]
You will if you can't fix them. Duct tape should do the trick.

What's generations of later pianists going to do with broken chords?
_________________________
Sam

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#448599 - 09/03/07 10:12 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
all I'm saying is your opening of op 18 will be lame sauce. [/b]
I much prefer barbecue sauce. We should throw in some vodka, too, for Sergei.
_________________________
Sam

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#448600 - 09/03/07 10:38 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Loki Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 1035
Loc: Texas
sam you post-hog.
_________________________
Houston, Texas

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#448601 - 09/03/07 11:09 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
.....you probably like Liberace too
Careful Kittyboy, Liberace has his fans on this board, although I do not count myself amongst them, nor -now that I think of it- have I ever knowingly met one.
_________________________
Jason

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#448602 - 09/03/07 11:12 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Gabriel Galvao Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 8
Loc: Natal
I love her playing style. People like to trash-talk a lot about new pianists. I think the general trend is "I envy her technique".

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#448603 - 09/04/07 03:05 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
lol sure I'll respond to a good challenge. My dad's asleep so I can't practice... why not.
I'm sure there are many people on this forum who think Liberace was the greatest pianist who ever lived. That's too bad.

pianojerome-I'm sorry you like lame sauce-personally I prefer a nice bechamel. I really enjoyed your pun on broken chords lol. Duct tape is indeed a potent force in the world. So is vodka!

all I know is I don't envy Lisitsa's technique.

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#448604 - 09/04/07 09:52 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jimmo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 67
Loc: United Kingdom
Sorry to break the rhythm of the thread, as I've been busy with work and I'm catching up on the forum...just saw that Rach Etude referred to earlier.

What incredible precision! Can't say the piece touches the heart musically, in my opinion, (sorry Rach old boy) but as a study in precision this is an outstanding performance. Wow. I feel like such a fat-fingered fumbling buffoon after watching that \:\)
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#448605 - 09/04/07 03:32 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
pianojerome: in relation to what is written in the score, I meant (and thought I wrote!) that the score is not necessarily to be slavishly followed. However, when it comes to a composer's recording of his own work and it differs from the score, what does that mean?

For my part, I don't think it's designed to be an emendation of or improvement to the score. It's an interpretation. I think Mr-Kitty is plain wrong to suggest Rachmaninoff tried broken chords, didn't like the effect and so didn't put it in the score. Rachmaninoff was well-known to have performed works in the same manner time and again once he had worked out the interpretation in his head. He was not one for spontaneous experiments in recording. It is also inconsistent with the fact that Rachmaninoff recorded several takes of the second concerto which he rejected, so if he didn't like the effect, he would have abandoned it.

But breaking a chord is also different from changing notes. It is the sort of thing that need not be written into the score. So many pianists break chords for dramatic effect. Rachmaninoff was equally entitled to without it affecting the integrity of his own score.

In addition, it is worth bearing in mind the performance practice of Rachmaninoff's generation of pianists, which was to tinker with the score in the pursuit of interpreting a piece. For example, Rachmaninoff's treatment of dynamics in the Chopin Bb minor piano sonata and his own works (for example the second movements of the second and third concertos). He also added or changed notes to a couple of his preludes in recordings, but they are not followed today. He wasn't right or wrong: those was his interpretations (though admittedly very compelling ones given that he wrote the pieces).

This is different from the technical challenge of not being able to reach a tenth, but my view is that such a technical challenge does not disentitle you to play the piece. There are some exceptions (for example some Liszt which would sound daft if you don't have the hands for it), but musicality is generally more important than hand span.

ecm: I'm so glad someone shares my view of Lang Lang! I thought I was the only one. I fail to understand the hype. His Carnegie Hall CD was terrible. Sorry to all the Lang Lang fans out there, but it seems to me to be a case of marketing over substance. [timbo dives for cover]

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#448606 - 09/04/07 03:40 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
Lang Lang is incredibly talented. He is a great showman in the tradition of Liberace. Perhaps one day he will become a great artist as well.

I like the opening chords solid, as written. Does that make me some kind of evildoer?

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#448607 - 09/04/07 04:06 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by timbo77:
ecm: I'm so glad someone shares my view of Lang Lang! I thought I was the only one. I fail to understand the hype.
You and ecm are not the only ones on this board.
_________________________
Jason

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#448608 - 09/04/07 04:13 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
I like the opening chords solid, as written. Does that make me some kind of evildoer?
No, not at all, and don't let anyone tell you that.

If I prefer to break the opening chords, that does not in any way imply "rolling" them, just taking the bottom F as sort of an upbeat- like Rachmaninov did. I can comfortably take the first chord unbroken, but the others get a bit dodgy. Rachmaninov, obviously, had no such concerns.
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#448609 - 09/04/07 09:41 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
it's just so juicey to take all 8 solid \:D
give it a try. And then the 9th chord (C-) which HAS to be broken is that much more special.

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#448610 - 09/04/07 10:16 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
.....you probably like Liberace too

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you mean?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#448611 - 09/04/07 10:21 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 2480
Loc: Alexandria, Egypt
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
all I'm saying is your opening of op 18 will be lame sauce. [/b]
I much prefer barbecue sauce. We should throw in some vodka, too, for Sergei. [/b]
No, he wasn't that type of guy.

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#448612 - 09/04/07 10:28 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 2480
Loc: Alexandria, Egypt
 Quote:
Originally posted by timbo77:

For my part, I don't think it's designed to be an emendation of or improvement to the score. [/b]
I agree. He certainly was the type of guy to encourage interpretations of others playing his own works, although different than his own.

And we all know his anecdote with Scriabin when he was playing a Scriabin piece and Scriabin told him "It does not work this way" \:D

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#448613 - 09/05/07 12:05 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
Mr_Kitty: there's definitely nothing wrong with you preferring to play the chords without breaking them (so do I, for that matter) but your earlier post indicated that breaking them was wrong because Rachmaninoff did not indicate it in the score.

Argerichfan: so no doubt you'd agree that Lang Lang is a far cry from Sergio Thiempo, who I heard on Saturday playing the Chopin first concerto. \:\)

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#448614 - 09/05/07 12:54 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by timbo77:
Argerichfan: so no doubt you'd agree that Lang Lang is a far cry from Sergio Thiempo, who I heard on Saturday playing the Chopin first concerto. \:\)
Most definitely agreed.
_________________________
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#448615 - 09/07/07 11:41 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Cultor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 342
Loc: BsAs
Valentina plays extraordinarily (the broken cords subject is a minor one), but she’s neither evil or magic. She's not a witch, as Argerich (sorry the rhyme, it's not mine). That’s important to me when I hear a woman playing. And when I say evil, I mean not a personal evilness but an artistic one, as an artist must remain morally unrestricted.

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#448616 - 09/08/07 06:18 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cultor:
She's not a witch, as Argerich (sorry the rhyme, it's not mine).
"Witch" is a rather odd word choice, or perhaps you were referencing her inner witch?
_________________________
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#448617 - 09/08/07 01:17 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18223
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cultor:
She's not a witch, as Argerich (sorry the rhyme, it's not mine).
"Witch" is a rather odd word choice, or perhaps you were referencing her inner witch? [/b]
It's hard to tell which witch is which!

Cheers!
_________________________
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#448618 - 09/08/07 01:26 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cultor:
And when I say evil, I mean not a personal evilness but an artistic one, as an artist must remain morally unrestricted. [/b]
What would constitute musical morality?
_________________________
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#448619 - 09/08/07 03:06 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Cultor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 342
Loc: BsAs
I mean ‘witch’ as Hecate goddess, in the sense of magic, ritual, obscure and charming not the posterior ‘heretical’ significance. It’s of course an inner daimon or genius but in some way connected to forces of nature that are not always rational.
Amorality in music means to me that a musician must been able to represent all kind of human feelings unrestrictedly. Even evilness if necessary.

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#448620 - 12/26/07 11:42 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LawrenceLK Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 4
I joined this forum to add to this thread. I support and follow Valentina Lisitsa, I have seen and once again am about to see her perform live and after a lifetime of witnessing concert pianists live and seeing one develop within my extended family I state - and will defend my position - that Valentina is divinely gifted musically and technically. There is much more to her than speed and accuracy - the world is full of fast, accurate pianists but after just one afternoon's exposure to Valentina on Youtube watching a wide spread of composers played by her I was totally captivated. From that point on I have watched her legion of adoring fans give her the praises she deserves on www.myspace.com/valentinalisitsa


Please also look at just one article that shares my sentiments.
http://www.mrs.umn.edu/register/article.php?index=0&issue=4§ion=ae&volume=17

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#448621 - 12/27/07 04:00 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7975
I've heard that Rachmaninoff helped at least one small-handed person rewrite those opening chords in the 2nd to make them playable (instead of, as was suggested in another post, telling the person to play a different concerto). Too bad he didn't provide an ossia in the score. Maybe we should just be grateful that he didn't write a lot more stuff unreachable-by-regular-hands than he did.

And, yes, judging from the various YouTube clips, Lisitsa is not a very interesting musician, although she can play way fast. Too robotic and too reliant on technique effects for my taste. But I'll admit that when I was much younger, I might have felt differently. Funny how time changes one's perspective...

But why are there so many these proponents of insubstantial virtuosity all over the place right now? It's practically like the middle of the 19th century is being replayed all over again. These virtuosi are just crawling out of the woodwork, and seem to have found an audience of extremely avid fans. It's really very strange.

Although I understand the "wow" factor (and enjoy it a lot myself), I also think that there are other factors in music that are at least as important. Make that "more important". It really is disturbing to me that a lot of people seem not to have any idea at all of why high-level technical prowess together with just a rudimentary, barely cultivated musicality just doesn't add up to "great".

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#448622 - 12/27/07 04:49 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
I am not a big fan of Lisitsa.

Although I don't agree with how the OP said it, I do believe that her interpretations and musicality are often a bit lacking, sometimes in place for technical bravura.

I've seen her live a number of times and every time I was left disappointed. Her Rach 2nd that I saw was quite poor. I was disappointed to hear that Gutierrez, who was supposed to play it, had canceled. After I left the hall, I was more disappointed than before. Her performance was underwhelming to say the least. I often found her phrasing to be a bit sloppy and she seemed to have trouble producing enough sound to compete with the orchestra.

Yes, she has many achievements. Yes, she has a very large repertoire (although it is only average compared to other major touring artists). But, in my humble opinion, there are so many better pianists out there that I don't believe she has quite yet reached the plateau as one of the greats.

That's just my opinion though.
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#448623 - 12/27/07 02:13 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Lento Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Canada
This is concerning the opening of rach 2, and the argument of broken vs solid.
Sergio Fiorentino talks about it in this interview.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=POGeQDn-Q5g
It's at around 7 minutes into it. In the next part of the interview (part 5) he says something along the lines that broken chords give the music more richness, and in the past, many pianist played chords broken (not just in rach 2) even when it wasn't notated

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#448624 - 12/27/07 03:27 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
There are many pieces that are not to my taste the way she plays them. But my taste is mine, and her taste is hers. I can't say she is lacking anything when it comes to playing piano, and I think she is a great pianist.

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#448625 - 12/27/07 09:21 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
jello_g Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 214
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Wow. A lot of pianist envy. I reiterate, we need more blonds playing piano!!

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#448626 - 12/27/07 09:22 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
To much hate in this thread alone.

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#448627 - 12/27/07 09:37 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
While I agree that Lisitsa's musical expression and style left much to be desired I certainly admire and respect her technical mastery of the monster piano. Hers is the typical result of matchless Russian training. She really knows how to relax in the most intense physical moments of piano playing. Repetative Syndrom is not a term in her vocabulary. Her level of the technical command of the instrument many of us mortals here would never achieve. I hold the highest respect for her technical prowess. Musically she is not great and yet not a slouch either. One can learn a lot just by watching her play anything on her Bosendorfer. I have all her three commercial DVDs. I watch them often and also use them to demonstrate to other piano students to simply concentrate on how she manages all those impossibly difficult spots with ease and aplomb...

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#448628 - 12/27/07 10:30 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
I am not jealous of her technique. Not because it isn't impressive, but because that is not something I am jealous of.

I am a big Hamelin fan, who, in my opinion, has much superior technique. Therefore, I am not jealous of her technique otherwise I'd be jealous of Hamelin.
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#448629 - 12/27/07 10:35 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
RachOn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 88
Loc: W. Pa.
I agree it's OK to break the Rach 2 opening chords -- I love Ashkenazy's performance!
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RachOn
Estonia 190; Yamaha U1

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#448630 - 12/27/07 10:38 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
Just look at the two pianists here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HY0WgCz5xPs

I like Ashkenazy's a little better.

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#448631 - 12/28/07 12:27 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21811
Loc: Oakland
I met Lisitsa this year, and spent an hour or so working on one piano while she practiced on another. She seemed pleasant enough as we went through the ritual of assuring each other that one of us would not be a problem for the other. I had another concert to tune for when her concert was scheduled, so I missed it. My concert was excellent, so I had no regrets, but I might have tried to get to hers if it were not for the conflict.
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#448632 - 12/28/07 08:20 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1711
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
Sheesh, for a moment I thought I walked into a Bang Lang thread. \:\(
Couldn't we just agree to disagree in a thread that was necrobumped by some embarassingly gushy acolyte?
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#448633 - 01/01/08 04:17 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Svane Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Denmark
I’m sitting here with a lot of confusion, as to whether this topic is about the opening of Rach2 or the best pianist in the world (Valentina Lisitsa)

The Rach2 matter: I don’t care. The opening chords are only an introduction, and are not really referred to later in the concert, why does it matter? People who write big handed chords do it well knowing that a lot of pianists tend to break them. And most important of all, please don’t judge any pianist from whether he/she breaks these chords or not.

I believe that Valentina Lisitsa is the best pianist in the world, and I am happy to say that I base that statement on more than just YouTube videos. I realise that saying this in this forum might give me a few bullets I my head, but even so…

I won’t spend a lot of time saying nice things about her technique, because those who don’t agree with me on that matter are simply blind. I do however feel a certain lack of enthusiasm for her musicality.

Something in her interpretations has ‘caught me’ and left me to use 1/4 of my day in front of a piano. I remember jogging once while Reminiscences of Don Juan from her ‘Back and Pink’ release was playing in my ears from my iPod. That little time spent on jogging was not a nice trip to the Danish woods, but simply a magical journey, I was high, flying, and amazingly enough not at all exhausted from the jogging, due to the music in my ears. She takes that piece to such an amazingly high level of musicality and magic that no interpretation ever since has been nearly good enough for me (Nice trying though, Lang). And I could go on, Ondine (Those of you who won’t like the YouTube version will definitely like the bonus version on her newest DVD), Etude Tableau Op. 39, 6 [Not tableaux, the x is only added in plural,] Carmen variations (Amazing performance, even more when you know the fact that the piano apparently was one of the worst and most badly treated left in America.)

I spent a week of my summer on Iceland, and my god what landscapes, volcanoes, ice, everything, holes in the earth that were deep enough to fit every grand piano in the world! However, I had no piano around for that entire week, it filled me with desperation worse than what I can describe, I’m sure some of you knows what I mean.
My iPod is full of piano recordings (plus some songs from genres I think are frowned upon in here), I heard piano recordings almost constantly on Iceland to release myself of this desperate need to touch a piano – It occurred to me that the only recordings who could really reach into me and fulfil this need were those by Lisitsa (And one by Tharaud, Jeux d’eau, lovely!), her musicality and what she ‘does’ to Rachmaninov lit up my life, Valentina Lisitsa is my ecstasy, and that has nothing to do with her technique, though hers is the best I’ve ever seen (there’ I said it)

A friend of mine, who I thank for letting me know about this forum, sent me a mail with the topic “We saw it happen, so we have to believe it…”
He had been to concert and described it as “The performance of her life”
Apparently this was not just an amazing piano-recital (sure, we’ve all seen some) but nothing less than the experience of his life, my quote from his mail here is used by permission
[Quote start]
“she was truly incredible both musically and in technique but the total eclipse came when her adrenaline was flowing and the collective synergy was there in the concert itself. Then it all happened - the thunder, the lightning, the calm patches with twittering birds, the Sun and Sangria (Thalberg Fantasy, it was a pure Dream in Val's hands), the Appassionata that at one stage rippled with incredible lilt and at another snarled in anger, the Etude-Tableau that climbed the impossible with demonic ferocity, then - then the Liszt Totentanz. The volcano of Val's playing, the machine guns chattering from her incredible runs in octaves and other ghastly pianistic concoctions that turned the piano into a dance floor for gnomes and devils - what more can I say ?”
[Quote end]

Now, like many other musicians, Valentina Lisitsa has a MySpace page, Martha Argerich who also has an official MySpace page wrote a comment on Valentinas page on 4th of June “Beautifully Brilliancy Valentina.” This, however, is nothing compared to what she wrote some months earlier (Feb 27) “Thank you for adding me, you are real talent, one of the best I've seen here [On MySpace] so far.”
Those of you who disagree with the fact that mrs. Lisitsa isn’t just musical but much more than that, also disagrees with Martha Argerich’s opinion on that matter, and I think most people agree that Martha Argerich knows what musicality is and isn’t (Thanks for Rach3 Martha!).

I can’t make your hearts feel something they won’t but please reconsider your opinions concerning Valentina.

After having said all this (normally I’m not a big talker but once in a while you HAVE TO) I feel I can retire to my comfy hay tonite with peace of mind. Ah.

- A fan and admirer of Valentina Lisitsa.

Ps: I’m only 16, please go easy on me!
_________________________
"- To talk about music is very difficult, what music does to one, you know..." - Martha Argerich

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#448634 - 01/01/08 04:34 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1711
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
 Quote:
Originally posted by Svane:
I can’t make your hearts feel something they won’t but please reconsider your opinions concerning Valentina.[/b]
Gushy words like yours do not help your cause. You come across as just another acolyte. Just marry LawrenceLK and enjoy your fangasm.
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#448635 - 01/01/08 04:50 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18223
Loc: Victoria, BC
Rare would be the 16 year old who has enough listening experience and refined musical judgment to categorically state that any pianist is "the best pianist in the world."

Rare, also, is the 16 year old who realizes that such categorical pronouncements are irrational because they are based, primarily, upon unfounded, personal judgments that don't stand up to scrutiny and analysis. But the poster is only 16; one has to make allowances for that.

Time will, as it always does, attenuate the rash judgments of youth.

In the meantime, enjoy the performances of Lisitsa if such is your pleasure; no one can deny you that.

Regards,
_________________________
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Estonia 190

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#448636 - 01/01/08 06:20 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by Svane:
I’m sitting here with a lot of confusion, as to whether this topic is about the opening of Rach2 or the best pianist in the world (Valentina Lisitsa)

The Rach2 matter: I don’t care. The opening chords are only an introduction, and are not really referred to later in the concert, why does it matter? People who write big handed chords do it well knowing that a lot of pianists tend to break them. And most important of all, please don’t judge any pianist from whether he/she breaks these chords or not.

I believe that Valentina Lisitsa is the best pianist in the world, and I am happy to say that I base that statement on more than just YouTube videos. I realise that saying this in this forum might give me a few bullets I my head, but even so…

I won’t spend a lot of time saying nice things about her technique, because those who don’t agree with me on that matter are simply blind. I do however feel a certain lack of enthusiasm for her musicality.

Something in her interpretations has ‘caught me’ and left me to use 1/4 of my day in front of a piano. I remember jogging once while Reminiscences of Don Juan from her ‘Back and Pink’ release was playing in my ears from my iPod. That little time spent on jogging was not a nice trip to the Danish woods, but simply a magical journey, I was high, flying, and amazingly enough not at all exhausted from the jogging, due to the music in my ears. She takes that piece to such an amazingly high level of musicality and magic that no interpretation ever since has been nearly good enough for me (Nice trying though, Lang). And I could go on, Ondine (Those of you who won’t like the YouTube version will definitely like the bonus version on her newest DVD), Etude Tableau Op. 39, 6 [Not tableaux, the x is only added in plural,] Carmen variations (Amazing performance, even more when you know the fact that the piano apparently was one of the worst and most badly treated left in America.)

I spent a week of my summer on Iceland, and my god what landscapes, volcanoes, ice, everything, holes in the earth that were deep enough to fit every grand piano in the world! However, I had no piano around for that entire week, it filled me with desperation worse than what I can describe, I’m sure some of you knows what I mean.
My iPod is full of piano recordings (plus some songs from genres I think are frowned upon in here), I heard piano recordings almost constantly on Iceland to release myself of this desperate need to touch a piano – It occurred to me that the only recordings who could really reach into me and fulfil this need were those by Lisitsa (And one by Tharaud, Jeux d’eau, lovely!), her musicality and what she ‘does’ to Rachmaninov lit up my life, Valentina Lisitsa is my ecstasy, and that has nothing to do with her technique, though hers is the best I’ve ever seen (there’ I said it)

A friend of mine, who I thank for letting me know about this forum, sent me a mail with the topic “We saw it happen, so we have to believe it…”
He had been to concert and described it as “The performance of her life”
Apparently this was not just an amazing piano-recital (sure, we’ve all seen some) but nothing less than the experience of his life, my quote from his mail here is used by permission
[Quote start]
“she was truly incredible both musically and in technique but the total eclipse came when her adrenaline was flowing and the collective synergy was there in the concert itself. Then it all happened - the thunder, the lightning, the calm patches with twittering birds, the Sun and Sangria (Thalberg Fantasy, it was a pure Dream in Val's hands), the Appassionata that at one stage rippled with incredible lilt and at another snarled in anger, the Etude-Tableau that climbed the impossible with demonic ferocity, then - then the Liszt Totentanz. The volcano of Val's playing, the machine guns chattering from her incredible runs in octaves and other ghastly pianistic concoctions that turned the piano into a dance floor for gnomes and devils - what more can I say ?”
[Quote end]

Now, like many other musicians, Valentina Lisitsa has a MySpace page, Martha Argerich who also has an official MySpace page wrote a comment on Valentinas page on 4th of June “Beautifully Brilliancy Valentina.” This, however, is nothing compared to what she wrote some months earlier (Feb 27) “Thank you for adding me, you are real talent, one of the best I've seen here [On MySpace] so far.”
Those of you who disagree with the fact that mrs. Lisitsa isn’t just musical but much more than that, also disagrees with Martha Argerich’s opinion on that matter, and I think most people agree that Martha Argerich knows what musicality is and isn’t (Thanks for Rach3 Martha!).

I can’t make your hearts feel something they won’t but please reconsider your opinions concerning Valentina.

After having said all this (normally I’m not a big talker but once in a while you HAVE TO) I feel I can retire to my comfy hay tonite with peace of mind. Ah.

- A fan and admirer of Valentina Lisitsa.

Ps: I’m only 16, please go easy on me! [/b]
I completely disagree.

I'll post a more detailed reason as to why I dislike Lisitsa.

So many of her Youtube videos have bee nothing but a fast flurry of notes. Examples are her Liszt Don Juan Paraphrase, Rachmaninov Etude No. 6 in A minor, Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 12, and Balakirev Islamey among others.

Her tonality is always so harsh and loud -- almost painful the the ears. And I wish I could say it is just the recording quality but after seeing her live 3 times, it is similar in person as well.

She is essentially the female version of Lang Lang in my honest opinion (without the pyhysical excessiveness): impressive virtuosity, but a n affinity towards showmanship rather than music.

How is she so famous? Likely because of her virtuosity. Then again, why is Lang Lang famous if he is consistently criticized so harshly from so many musical critics and listeners alike?
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#448637 - 01/01/08 06:56 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21811
Loc: Oakland
Well, if you do not like her playing, you do not have to listen to it. Listen to someone else, instead.
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#448638 - 01/01/08 07:09 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
I do not.

I was merely replying to this thread. Unless you believe that every reply to this topic should be praising Lisitsa to the skies, I am merely voicing my opinion on her playing.

2 of the 3 times I saw her live she was a substitute for a pianist that made a last minute schedule change.

Meaning, I was unaware of the change until I arrived at the hall.
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#448639 - 01/02/08 04:49 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Svane Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Denmark
What a lot of nice people in here. Hm.

I forgot to say, she is the perfect role model.

GIVE KIDS A LISTSA!
^My rhyme
_________________________
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#448640 - 01/02/08 05:44 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LawrenceLK Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 4
I don't find submissions such as "Just marry LawrenceLK and enjoy your fangasm" to be a mature contribution to this discussion.

From my own perspective on Valentina I'd prefer "eargasm" if it were necessary to resort to such language.

Regards

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#448641 - 01/02/08 07:13 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1711
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
Wow, the Lisitsa tag team returns. If you want a good discussion, why don't you leave your altar for a minute and try talking about something other than your Mistress and Saviour -- such as, oh I don't know, the use of octatonic sets in late Scriabin, non-retrogradable rhythms in Messiaen's Preludes, or even the transformation of native rhythms and melodies in the piano sonatas of Ginastera. Or contribute useful information to any of the active threads without any reference to your Goddess Divine.
Otherwise, both of you are nothing more than walking Lisitsa infomercials -- cute little trolls who will never enlighten but who are always good for a laugh.
_________________________
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Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
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#448642 - 01/02/08 09:34 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LawrenceLK Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 4
Of course we can (add to other threads), we are new to this forum, please give us time.

But I'd prefer you attack our views rather than attack us personally as you know nothing about us. I find personal attacks unintelligent and rude (..."good for a laugh"). I find that a very strange reception on a new forum and I have contributed to many forums but never encountered such school playground jibes, not ever.

I admire many other artists - Martha Argerich in particular, & not just pianists.

With all due respect, give new members time to find their feet, rather than demonstrate how up tight you are.

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#448643 - 01/02/08 10:03 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
If Gutierrez picked a pianist to substitute him, I am quite sure he knew well of the pianist capability. I'd say he knows more about piano playing that most in this forum.

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#448644 - 01/02/08 10:26 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LawrenceLK Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 4
"If Gutierrez picked a pianist to substitute him, I am quite sure he knew well of the pianist capability. I'd say he knows more about piano playing than most in this forum." -

Gutierrez gave us a really relaxed, informal but marvellous rendition of the Tchaikovsky #1 in the 1970s on live UK TV - he was great, he played with such conviction, nobody knew who he was then, and my concert pianist-trained wife at that time described him as "one of the best she'd ever seen" - & she knew, she was taught by Dennis Matthews and was a junior exhibitioner (at 12) at his favoured London College \:\)

I agree he has a reputation to uphold and that most likely he wouldn't want just anyone planted in front of "his" audience !

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#448645 - 01/02/08 10:56 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Svane Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Denmark
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
Time will, as it always does, attenuate the rash judgments of youth.
[/b]
Many of the, so to say, older people liking Valentina will be pleased to know that they once again (due to their 'rash' judgements much alike mine) are in their youth. So I guess some people never grow up?
_________________________
"- To talk about music is very difficult, what music does to one, you know..." - Martha Argerich

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#448646 - 01/02/08 11:00 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
It might be time for this thread to close.

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#448647 - 01/02/08 11:04 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Lento Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Canada
I'm sure that after a few more pages of this discussion, we will all come to share the same opinion concerning Valentina Lisista. I find that this is usually what happens.

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#448648 - 01/02/08 11:59 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
iconoclast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 389
Loc: Ancramdale, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
There are many reasons why classical music appeals to a small (and increasingly smaller, alas) group of people. I can't quite escape the feeling that one of those reasons is the hypercritical cannibalism ( ;\) ) often on display on forums like this. It makes classical music seem like elitist entertainment, and its adherents like snobs for whom nothing is quite good enough.

If I'm reading Sam correctly, that is what seems implied in his gentle slap on the collective wrist. [/b]
What he said. Classical music's an interpretive art folks; if you don't like one performer's version listen to somebody elses. Carping about whether so and so's pedaling is historically authentic or whether broken chords are correct for people whose hands are too small is IMHO an utter waste of time.......

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#448649 - 01/02/08 01:32 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by LisztAddict:
If Gutierrez picked a pianist to substitute him, I am quite sure he knew well of the pianist capability. I'd say he knows more about piano playing that most in this forum. [/b]
He did not choose the substitute, our music director did, who is good friends with Lisitsa (so it seems).

And even if he DOES like her, music is subjective. And, so far, I'm not a fan.

So sue me.
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#1953978 - 09/04/12 07:31 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
MarioToroOfficial Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/12
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
***


Edited by Kreisler (09/04/12 07:49 PM)
Edit Reason: garbage deleted

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#1953982 - 09/04/12 07:49 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: MarioToroOfficial]
Para Otras Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 309
***


Edited by Kreisler (09/04/12 07:49 PM)
Edit Reason: deleted quote and commentary on the garbage i just deleted

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#1953998 - 09/04/12 09:11 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4890
Loc: USA
i sort of agree, except i'm not angry about it. i couldn't care less! in my experience listening to her, she plays the chopin etudes flawlessly. when it comes to the chopin etudes, i dont think her musicality stands out, but i don't think she lacks musicality while playing them.. so i'll give her that. on the other hand, her interpretation of the e-flat chopin nocturne is absolutely horrible in my opinion. that's just my taste though.

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#1954018 - 09/04/12 10:17 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
For a moment you had me there. I thought Mr. Kitty had finally returned and was going to post his performance of the Chopin etudes that he promised us. I don't have any objection to a Valentina Lisista thread - all important topics get recycled here on the Forum many times over. What's disturbing is the ghostly presence of so many Forum figures from the past who have traveled on to other pastures. It's rather jarring and spooky at the same time, until I pay attention to the dates of their posts. Nor do I know what * * * means or why so many of these people have been brought back to life.

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#1954029 - 09/04/12 10:54 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2151
Loc: Canada
She plays some things well, but I disagree with many of her interpretations.

RE the Rach2 thing - the important thing is to play those opening chords with increasing intensity. Breaking, rolling, or just playing the chords straight isn't a big issue.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
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#1954036 - 09/04/12 11:31 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Numerian]
Arghhh Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 1165
Originally Posted By: Numerian
Nor do I know what * * * means or why so many of these people have been brought back to life.


I don't know what * * * means either, but it may mean something entirely different than ***, to which you were referring. (sorry, my humour is off tonight)

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#1954038 - 09/04/12 11:40 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Numerian]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Numerian
For a moment you had me there. I thought Mr. Kitty had finally returned and was going to post his performance of the Chopin etudes that he promised us.

Didn't he did post a video of Chopin 10/1 playing in his pajamas?

I rather liked the guy, shortly before he departed the board he asked for my email address and suggested we might meet up in Scotland, but I never heard anything after that.

Reading old threads can be interesting. I don't take back anything I posted above, but it was certainly nice to be reminded of Bassio. We PM'd quite a bit, talked about all kinds of stuff, and I am sorry he is no longer active.
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#1954045 - 09/04/12 11:52 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Arghhh]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Arghhh

I don't know what * * * means either...

Quite simply '* * *' is in place of what the moderator deleted. I did see MarioToroOfficial's post before it was deleted, and it was nothing more than an angry and immature rant, the stuff you see all the time on Facebook.
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#1954059 - 09/05/12 01:02 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
old threads are old. This should be closed and the reviver temp banned smokin

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#1954201 - 09/05/12 11:21 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Mr_Kitty]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Mr_Kitty
lol she breaks the opening chords of rach 2.
don't DO that.... yes. rachmaninoff did it ONCE. that doesn't mean anyone else can;)if your hands are too small, play another piece! lol the rest of the concerto wasn't great either
why do so many famous pianists not deserve their fame?


That's so ignorant. Rachmaninoff did it in the ONE recording he made. He could reach it, so why do it? Partly to show that it's not a crime and because it adds different expression. "play another piece"... HAHA yeah because rach 2 is the only piece with big chords. Give me a break. It's just so ridiculous, I don't even know what to say except laugh..
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#1954202 - 09/05/12 11:24 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Damn I didn't notice the thread was so old. Still, hard to believe such idiots sometimes.
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1954234 - 09/05/12 12:33 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Pogorelich.]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8925
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Damn I didn't notice the thread was so old.

Hah! I was wondering when you were going to spot that. laugh
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Jason

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#1954304 - 09/05/12 02:41 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: argerichfan]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18223
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Damn I didn't notice the thread was so old.

Hah! I was wondering when you were going to spot that. laugh


Some of us are such PW "junkies" (nerds?) that if we - well, I, at any rate - see a thread with two, three or four pages - or even 20 or 25 posts that wasn't there the last time I was on the site a few hours ago, I immediately check the dates. Sure enough, it's an old one, revived.

Not that, per se, there's anything wrong with reviving old threads. Quite often, however, the person who revives an old thread responds to a question that was asked by a person who has long disappeared from the forum and the response seems somewhat irrelevant.

One does wonder, though, in some cases that if the person reviving a thread that is four years old had to go back into the archives to find it, why s/he wouldn't realise that the horse is already dead.

Cheers!
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#1954333 - 09/05/12 03:29 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: midss]
Derulux Offline
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Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5344
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: midss
I must admit though, I think she has great technical control. I was really mesmerized watching her hands, and I even picked up a few tips on fingering in her rendition of La Campanella:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0TV1Np1VXKI

I'm not crazy about the way she plays this musically (I prefer Yundi Li's best) but I still find it helpful watching her- technique is clear.

That link was broken, so I went to this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwc-nmyPm4I

It's decent. But she simplifies some of the most difficult passages (possibly because her hand is too small, I'll give her that). Look at 0:53-59. She only plays the top note in the descending line. It's MUCH easier that way, but I know the 42 stretch can be extremely hard. My hand can barely reach it. Evidence for this support comes at 2:45, when she uses 1-4-5 instead of 1-3-4. I have to use 1-4-5 also, and it's a bear.. She also looks a little stiff on the last octave recapitulation, and it sounds that way, too. The reason I bring all this up is this: I'm not sure hers is the example I would use for "proper technique".

Here is one of my favorite interpretations of La Campanella:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0U73NRSIkw
Kissin, Proms, 1997

In terms of speed, I've never heard it played faster. He plays it in just under 4 minutes.

I also like this, completely different rendition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lejBlKS2t_w
Lang Lang, no idea, no idea

Start at 0:24 to get to the music. Ignore the fog machine and screaming fans. Listen to the music. Very nice and very different from Kissin's, particularly the opening.
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#1954384 - 09/05/12 05:02 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Derulux]
Pavel.K Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 86
Loc: Czech Republic
I do not care. I just enjoy her performances. smile

Pavel
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#1954461 - 09/05/12 08:18 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
She doesn't have small hands though.

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#1954649 - 09/06/12 08:04 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 382
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: pianojerome
Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
There are many reasons why classical music appeals to a small (and increasingly smaller, alas) group of people. I can't quite escape the feeling that one of those reasons is the hypercritical cannibalism ( wink ) often on display on forums like this. It makes classical music seem like elitist entertainment, and its adherents like snobs for whom nothing is quite good enough.

If I'm reading Sam correctly, that is what seems implied in his gentle slap on the collective wrist.
smile

Here is my review of Valentina Lisitsa.

1. She has recorded on DVD all 24 Chopin Etudes, which means that she has learned and played all 24 Chopin Etudes, and also that she has kept them all so well in her repertoire that she could (and did) record them all on one DVD.

2. She has learned and played, and maintains in her repertoire, all of the Beethoven Concertos; all of the Rachmaninov Concertos; all of the Chopin Concertos; both of the Shostakovich Concertos and 2 of the Liszt Concertos; 3 of the Prokofiev Concertos; 5 Mozart Concertos; and more.

3. She has on her website solo videos, which she recorded, of music that she learned and played by Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, and Rachmaninov.

4. She has achieved, and maintains, world-wide fame as a concert pianist, travelling all around the world to play the piano for people who pay to hear her play.

5. She has a professional duo partner, with whom she performs concerts for people who pay to hear her play.

6. She has her biography on wikipedia.

How many of us have any one of those points to our own credit?

Yes -- there are others who have done the same. Yes -- there are others whose interpretations some of us might prefer. Yes -- there are others whose achievements surpass even those of Valentina Lisitsa. No -- these facts do not diminish her tremendous achievements.

Now to the original point -- how do you know that she does not care about the musicality and interpretation of her music? How do you know that all she cares about is technique?

And why, given her very tremendous achievements, does she not deserve her fame?


"Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!".
Does not strike me as a genuine and fair assessment of the abilities of any musician.

I once told a woman considerably older than myself that I tried to play the piano. She laughed out loud at me. I asked her what was funny about that. She replied, "People only learn the piano to show off, it's a "look at me" thing, that's all!"

I was literally speechless. If there are those who believe the motivation for a person to play the piano is to show off they simply demonstrate how very little they understand about musicianship.

To then claim in the first statement of the OP that Lisitsa, "has no idea what music is" is so outrageous as to be either bizarre or plain stupid.

I admit I am an enormous fan, but I know she isn't perfect, but with her posts on YouTube, her relaying practice sessions live on the internet and her many interviews (show off!) she has given me more than any other famous pianist for my PERSONAL musical advancement. I am truly grateful to her for that.

I love her, long may she reign... I do wish she would play the 2 quavers at the end of the first ascending bars of Moonlight 3rd Movement!
But that incredible memory, that stunning ability, that slightly "off-the-wall" attitude.

A great pianist and I am sure, a great influence on many amateurs for decades, if not centuries to come.

I think the comments in the OP is a bit of WUMMING to get a lot of reaction and massage an ego from the result.

In fact.... a bit of showing off.

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#1954724 - 09/06/12 10:16 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: BruceD]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
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Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: BruceD

One does wonder, though, in some cases that if the person reviving a thread that is four years old had to go back into the archives to find it, why s/he wouldn't realise that the horse is already dead.


Actually it makes me wonder how some people manage to get through life in general. crazy
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#1954849 - 09/06/12 02:05 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 801
Loc: Netherlands
I think she is very good on some of her Youtube "studio videos". I started to like Totentanz thanks to her. The Rach etude is great as well and shows individual character.
The Chopin etudes are good but none of them stand out, in the end I prefer various other pianists for most of the etudes.

Her performance in the Royal Albert Hall was kind of disappointing, a bit sloppy in places and rushed overall, but considering the circumstances I still think she did well.

If we're going to compare, I think Kissin is just as good technically and more expressive overall. And Kissin is a better live performer, but more experienced at that too.


Edited by babama (09/06/12 02:08 PM)

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#1954865 - 09/06/12 02:40 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
RAH was rather sloppy, but when I saw her at Musikverein she played very well.

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#1954899 - 09/06/12 03:39 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: debrucey]
Derulux Offline
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Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5344
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: debrucey
She doesn't have small hands though.

Yah, I wish I knew that for certain, but I've never met her. From the videos I've seen, it appears she has similar hand size to me. Lang Lang's hand is a little bigger than mine, but barely. (I know this because I met him and shook his hand.) Still, at that particular size, a half inch span is a huge difference in comfort for minor tenths or large 42 stretches.

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
I once told a woman considerably older than myself that I tried to play the piano. She laughed out loud at me. I asked her what was funny about that. She replied, "People only learn the piano to show off, it's a "look at me" thing, that's all!"

I was literally speechless.

This is where my mouth gets me in trouble. I probably would have responded, "I am sorry to hear, Madam, that you have never tried to do anything worthwhile in your life."

Quote:
A great pianist and I am sure, a great influence on many amateurs for decades, if not centuries to come.

Centuries might be a bit of a stretch to say at this point.. Liszt is barely getting there now. wink
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#1955445 - 09/07/12 01:50 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Derulux]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 382
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: Derulux

slipperykeys
Quote:
A great pianist and I am sure, a great influence on many amateurs for decades, if not centuries to come.

Centuries might be a bit of a stretch to say at this point.. Liszt is barely getting there now. wink


Had they had the internet and YouTube hundreds of years ago then I think many pianists would influence others just as centuries old music is still influencing opinion.

Wouldn't we like to see Mozart Bach etc and hear them play their music?

We may have been surprised how poor they were, we just don't know. But people in hundreds of years time should be able to see pianists, thanks to such sites as YouTube.

Because of recent technological advances I see no reason why all this stuff won't still be around in hundreds of years, Valentina Lisitsa's performance of the Schubert/Liszt "Schwanengesang" is iconic and I am sure will be seen many millions of times for who knows how long?

I admit that is conjecture, but does seem possible.

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#1956937 - 09/10/12 01:17 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: slipperykeys]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5344
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
Originally Posted By: Derulux

slipperykeys
Quote:
A great pianist and I am sure, a great influence on many amateurs for decades, if not centuries to come.

Centuries might be a bit of a stretch to say at this point.. Liszt is barely getting there now. wink


Had they had the internet and YouTube hundreds of years ago then I think many pianists would influence others just as centuries old music is still influencing opinion.

Wouldn't we like to see Mozart Bach etc and hear them play their music?

We may have been surprised how poor they were, we just don't know. But people in hundreds of years time should be able to see pianists, thanks to such sites as YouTube.

Because of recent technological advances I see no reason why all this stuff won't still be around in hundreds of years, Valentina Lisitsa's performance of the Schubert/Liszt "Schwanengesang" is iconic and I am sure will be seen many millions of times for who knows how long?

I admit that is conjecture, but does seem possible.

Absolutely, I would not preclude the possibility, but merely state that at this point in time, it's a stretch. wink

I think one of the reasons Liszt did not choose to record himself (when that technology began to emerge) is because the "legend" was greater than the "man". The same can be said of Babe Ruth. A very famous sportscaster reported that Ruth was indicating to the opposing team in the dugout that he had one strike left. But you put a picture up of him holding up a finger, and the next shot is a home run--and all of a sudden he called his shot. Now, it's "fact" that Babe Ruth called the shot. I think there are probably some similar stories surrounding many of the great pianists, and the more famous they are, the more-likely there are factually-skewed stories about them.

That, of course, will not happen with the current generation of pianists. They are recorded, taped, might as well be DNA-sampled and cloned.. there's zero room for conjecture unless we lose the recordings. So, two hundred years from now, we will be able to directly compare one pianist to another, and the people of that day will make their judgment. (It is a shame, however, that we in this day will not be able to make a judgment call about a pianist two hundred years from now.. wink )
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#1956997 - 09/10/12 03:29 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
daviel Offline
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Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
I like her. She's got it; she should flaunt it.
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#1957036 - 09/10/12 04:57 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: daviel]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6423
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: daviel
I like her. She's got it; she should flaunt it.

She most certainly does - and she usually plays the piano quite well too !! wink
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#1957364 - 09/11/12 10:11 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: timbo77]
Firefinch Offline
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Posts: 166
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: timbo77

mr_kitty: what's wrong with breaking the opening chords of Rach 2? There's a lot more to playing the piano and interpreting a piece than have hands big enough to play a tenth. It's hardly a reason to dismiss a performance. Ashkenazy breaks the chords and no-one has told him not to play Rachmaninoff!


I agree! I am all for freedom in music. Play the top notes of the chords with your nose for all I care. Why does it bother mr_kitty so much?

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#1957745 - 09/12/12 05:42 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Firefinch]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7975
Originally Posted By: Firefinch

I agree! I am all for freedom in music. Play the top notes of the chords with your nose for all I care. Why does it bother mr_kitty so much?


Since this is an antique thread, and Mr. Kitty stopped posting here quite a while ago, it's not likely you are going to get an answer to your question.

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#1958079 - 09/12/12 10:45 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
Chopinlover49 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 641
I don't want to argue with anyone, as I feel we all have our own sense of taste and are entitled to like, or dislike various interpretations or performances. However, I disagree with your opinion. Personally, I like her musicality and do not hold it against her that she possesses a fantastic technique, earned by many many hours of practice, I am sure. I find her mesmerizing to watch in videos. Her hands glide so smoothly over the keys, and it seems to me that she really gets involved in the music. Just my opinion. You are certainly entitled to disagree, of course. I would give anything to play like she does.

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#1958085 - 09/12/12 10:55 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Chopinlover49]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7975
Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I don't want to argue with anyone, as I feel we all have our own sense of taste and are entitled to like, or dislike various interpretations or performances. However, I disagree with your opinion.


The most recent post of the person with whom you are disagreeing was in August of 2007. Just sayin'...

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#1958225 - 09/13/12 10:26 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
klaviero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 7
Loc: Canada
IMO Valentina is the best pianist out there. I am no expert when it comes to the piano as I am just starting to learn to play but I think I have a good ear and I can say that her playing is superior to a lot of other pianists. Then again it most probably is a question of personal taste.

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#1958248 - 09/13/12 11:34 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: klaviero]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: klaviero
IMO Valentina is the best pianist out there. I am no expert when it comes to the piano as I am just starting to learn to play but I think I have a good ear and I can say that her playing is superior to a lot of other pianists. Then again it most probably is a question of personal taste.


It most certainly is only a question of personal taste. (because there's no way she is superior than someone like, say Uchida or Argerich.....)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1958299 - 09/13/12 01:21 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Pogorelich.]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5344
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: klaviero
IMO Valentina is the best pianist out there. I am no expert when it comes to the piano as I am just starting to learn to play but I think I have a good ear and I can say that her playing is superior to a lot of other pianists. Then again it most probably is a question of personal taste.


It most certainly is only a question of personal taste. (because there's no way she is superior than someone like, say Uchida or Argerich.....)

Or Kissin, or Volodos, or yes, even Lang Lang. They might be on par with each other, but the differences at that level are so minute that to say any of them is superior to any other is equivalent to saying that one's personal taste is superior to another's.
_________________________
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#1958301 - 09/13/12 01:28 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Pogorelich.]
slava_richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 164
Loc: Providence, RI
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
It most certainly is only a question of personal taste. (because there's no way she is superior than someone like, say Uchida or Argerich.....)


Based on the recordings you've posted, you are also better than her. Maybe not technically, but you're a better musician.

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#1958325 - 09/13/12 02:00 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
ScriabinAddict Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 335
My 2 cents: She's a good pianist, but without the aid of YouTube she would never have gained the notoriety that she has today.

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#1958377 - 09/13/12 03:04 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
slava_richter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 164
Loc: Providence, RI
^ Agreed. She's a very good pianist, but among the pros, I don't think she's that special, certainly not as special as her fame would suggest. But good for her for finding a way to make a name for herself using technology. I think we would all rather have 20 more of her than one more Bieber.

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#1958382 - 09/13/12 03:16 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
I'd take Valentina over Lang Lang any day.

And she is very clever to be exploiting modern technologies. I predicted many years ago that it would turn out well for her and I was right. Its a shame very few other pianists have caught on.

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#1958389 - 09/13/12 03:20 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: debrucey]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6423
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: debrucey
I'd take Valentina over Lang Lang any day.
And she is very clever to be exploiting modern technologies. I predicted many years ago that it would turn out well for her and I was right. Its a shame very few other pianists have caught on.

So true !!
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1958428 - 09/13/12 04:06 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 945
Loc: Bulgaria
I couldn't bear to read some of the comments here but I think that a lot of you are overreacting. Why do you care so much? She is doing her thing, the way she wants. We are all supposed to do that.

If you do not know someone personally how do you know what music is to them and how can you judge her? Even if you read a thousand interviews or watch all her videos or see her live, you will not know or understand even a fraction of her personality and why she does what she does. It's good that your thoughts and opinions have absolutely no effect on her situation and can't really hurt what she'd doing because it would be sad otherwise. I sure hope she never gets discouraged by such pointless rantings.
Music just is, stop trying to explain it. It's for everyone.



Edited by Teodor (09/13/12 04:09 PM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

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#1958511 - 09/13/12 07:23 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: klaviero]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7975
Originally Posted By: klaviero
IMO Valentina is the best pianist out there. I am no expert when it comes to the piano as I am just starting to learn to play but I think I have a good ear and I can say that her playing is superior to a lot of other pianists. Then again it most probably is a question of personal taste.


I'm sure there are people out there who would think the food at Olive Garden is better than the food at Per se...again, it's just personal taste.

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#1958519 - 09/13/12 07:41 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: debrucey]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: debrucey
I'd take Valentina over Lang Lang any day.

And she is very clever to be exploiting modern technologies. I predicted many years ago that it would turn out well for her and I was right. Its a shame very few other pianists have caught on.


I agree with all of this, and it's fantastic for her, even if VL isn't one of my favorite pianists.

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#1958845 - 09/14/12 01:00 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Teodor]
Steve Chandler Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2777
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: Teodor

If you do not know someone personally how do you know what music is to them and how can you judge her? Even if you read a thousand interviews or watch all her videos or see her live, you will not know or understand even a fraction of her personality and why she does what she does. It's good that your thoughts and opinions have absolutely no effect on her situation and can't really hurt what she'd doing because it would be sad otherwise. I sure hope she never gets discouraged by such pointless rantings.
Music just is, stop trying to explain it. It's for everyone.

Teodor,

I'm sure VL would appreciate your comments if she were to ever read them. Public forums tend to attract people who wish to tear down others. This is a fact of life. In my experience the more successful a person is the less likely they are to criticize others, unless there is some tangible advantage to be gained by doing so. In general criticism reflects poorly on the critic, less so on the target of criticism.

It all reminds me of the words found written on the wall in Mother Teresa's home for children in Calcutta:

People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.

What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway.

Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.

In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.

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#1958906 - 09/14/12 03:04 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Steve Chandler]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Very well said, Steve. Excellent post. thumb
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#1959358 - 09/15/12 07:11 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
IJR Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 4
She certainly has used youtube to her advantage. I don't really agree with a lot of her interpretations, but I greatly respect her not just as an artist but also as a musician in general.
_________________________
http://learning-piano-chords.com

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#1976021 - 10/20/12 12:16 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Para Otras]
MarioToroOfficial Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/12
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Kreisel or whatever: you are extremely rude. i shall never speak to you again.

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#1976077 - 10/20/12 04:30 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1340
I love Valentina Lisitsa. I think she is a phenomenal pianist, and actually, a great artist. I think she has brought serious classical music to the masses, sort of like a connoisseurs Lang Lang - who is also excellent.

She has used youtube to her advantage, to bring her outstanding repertoire to a wider audience, and I think we should all be grateful that someone like her is flying the flag for the piano.

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#2016672 - 01/18/13 11:42 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: pianojerome]
jdott Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 34
Loc: Colorado, USA
Well stated, PianoJerome! Shy not only plays, but mastered all 24 Chopin Etudes-very few pianists can claim to have that accomplishment. I've heard a lot of her Rachmaninoff, and I think it's wonderful, as is her Liszt. Some of her Chopin, I'm not too fond of her interpretation (for me the Op 53 Polonaise is a good example), but she plays everything exceptionally well. One of the problems with our "calling" is, there are too many snobs, which sadly kills young people's interest in this wonderful music. Ms. Lisitsa is a breath of fresh air, and I think if there were more like her, we could collectively rekindle interest in what the youngsters now refer to as "dead-guy music.". She's incredibly talented, approachable, all over YouTube, and most of her recordings are available for free on her web site just because she enjoys entertaining people. We need more people with her talent and attitude toward the public. She's humble and gifted, and that is enough for me. I love Horowitz' playing, but he was a snob. Always wanted to attend one of his performances, but he refused to come to Denver because he didn't like the concert hall here. Most other masters seemed to do well here, but not good enough for him? Ha!

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#2016680 - 01/18/13 11:48 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Mr_Kitty]
jdott Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 34
Loc: Colorado, USA
Well, Horowitz broke the opening chords. His hands weren't any larger than mine. LOTS of excellent pianists do it. Most people don't have hands the size of Liszt or Rachmaninoff.

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#2016707 - 01/18/13 12:33 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: wr]
GeorgeB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 635
Originally Posted By: wr
I've heard that Rachmaninoff helped at least one small-handed person rewrite those opening chords in the 2nd to make them playable (instead of, as was suggested in another post, telling the person to play a different concerto). Too bad he didn't provide an ossia in the score. Maybe we should just be grateful that he didn't write a lot more stuff unreachable-by-regular-hands than he did.

And, yes, judging from the various YouTube clips, Lisitsa is not a very interesting musician, although she can play way fast. Too robotic and too reliant on technique effects for my taste. But I'll admit that when I was much younger, I might have felt differently. Funny how time changes one's perspective...

But why are there so many these proponents of insubstantial virtuosity all over the place right now? It's practically like the middle of the 19th century is being replayed all over again. These virtuosi are just crawling out of the woodwork, and seem to have found an audience of extremely avid fans. It's really very strange.

Although I understand the "wow" factor (and enjoy it a lot myself), I also think that there are other factors in music that are at least as important. Make that "more important". It really is disturbing to me that a lot of people seem not to have any idea at all of why high-level technical prowess together with just a rudimentary, barely cultivated musicality just doesn't add up to "great".


Big bump is big...
Wr's post is probably one of the most (if not the most) sensible posts in this thread.

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#2016710 - 01/18/13 12:37 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
GeorgeB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 635
It's one of the things which really annoys me about certain people on this forum.
Everything they say is law. If they like a pianist, or an interpretation, then it must be the best in the world. If they don't like it, then it's clearly overrated and it is a pile of cow dung.

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#2017165 - 01/19/13 10:15 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Steve Chandler]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Steve Chandler

In my experience the more successful a person is the less likely they are to criticize others, unless there is some tangible advantage to be gained by doing so.


Not always true.. having an opinion can be a good thing laugh I've seen (as we all have) successful, famous people criticizing someone else. But so what? Not everybody is going to like what you do. And THAT is a fact of life. We just have to accept it and move on. There's no point in trying to please everybody, it is impossible. There are people that surely think Richter was a "bad pianist". You just have to forget about it. But I really don't think criticism is always such a bad thing, especially when justified or constructive.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2017187 - 01/19/13 10:57 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Pogorelich.]
Steve Chandler Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2777
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Steve Chandler

In my experience the more successful a person is the less likely they are to criticize others, unless there is some tangible advantage to be gained by doing so.


Not always true.. having an opinion can be a good thing laugh I've seen (as we all have) successful, famous people criticizing someone else. But so what? Not everybody is going to like what you do. And THAT is a fact of life. We just have to accept it and move on. There's no point in trying to please everybody, it is impossible. There are people that surely think Richter was a "bad pianist". You just have to forget about it. But I really don't think criticism is always such a bad thing, especially when justified or constructive.

Having an opinion and expressing it are two different things. My point is that successful people are less likely to criticise another successful person unless there's something to be gained by doing so, e.g. Donald Trump criticizing the President. Once Obama is a former President all the criticism will fade away and he'll become a beloved elder statesman like Clinton. You are very correct in that you can't please everyone, I guess the trick is to displease those who are less inclined to express their opinion.

Frankly, the whole criticism of VL that she's unmusical and would be nothing without Youtube is moot. She's used Youtube to gain notoriety and now that she has it the peanut gallery is having its say. The fact is she's gained notoriety and how she's done it is irrelevant.

Some could accuse me of unmusical playing because when I play my own pieces I don't indulge in the rubato that Cinnamonbear does (his recordings are posted in Member recordings). To me his interpretations are effective and interesting, but I feel mine are as well.

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#2017302 - 01/19/13 02:26 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
(Insert argument here)

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#2017423 - 01/19/13 05:30 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: jdott]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6423
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: jdott
Well stated, PianoJerome! She not only plays, but mastered all 24 Chopin Etudes-very few pianists can claim to have that accomplishment.


GREAT SCOTT JDOTT !!! Not only have you (yet again) resurrected an ancient thread here but now you are responding to someone who hasn't posted on the thread since 2007 and hasn't participated in PW since August 2012.

Why not simply start a new thread/topic and converse with members who are currently active?? crazy
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2017426 - 01/19/13 05:40 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: carey]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19836
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: carey
Why not simply start a new thread/topic and converse with members who are currently active?? crazy

I, for one, think this is better. smile

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#2017599 - 01/19/13 11:52 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: carey]
jdott Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 34
Loc: Colorado, USA
Oops-well, I saw an Oct 2012 date on it, and just read back to see what was on it. Sorry

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